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Response to a stubborn disbeliever

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    Response to a stubborn disbeliever (OP)


    Response to a stubborn disbeliever



    Question:

    Did you know your religion was founded and developed by Catholics? I know Muhammad was your Christ, but let me tell you friend the God you know is not the God of Gods but the Devil of Devils.




    Answer:

    Praise be to Allaah.

    We do not wish to respond to slander in kind, but we will answer you, you disbeliever, with quotes from the Word of God (the Qur’aan), if you even believe in the existence of God.


    O disbeliever, we debate with you in the words addressed by Allaah (the Arabic name of the One True God) to the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and the disbelievers. He says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “O People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary) was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word (‘Be!’ – and he was), which He bestowed on Maryam, and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One (God). Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of Affairs.”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:171]



    “Say: O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do you criticize us for no other reason than that we believe in Allaah, and in (the revelation) which has been sent down before (us), and that most of you are faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient [to Allaah])?”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:59]



    “How can you disbelieve in Allaah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.”

    [al-Baqarah 2:28]



    “… whosoever disbelieves in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Last Day, then indeed he has strayed far away…

    Verily, those who disbelieve in Allaah and His messengers and wish to make a distinction between Allaah and His Messengers (by believing in Allaah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, ‘We believe in some but not in others,’ and wish to adopt a way in between,

    They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.”


    [al-Nisa’ 4:136, 150-151]




    O disbeliever, do you think that you can do any harm to Allaah by your disbelief? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “… But if you disbelieve, then unto Allaah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and Allaah is Ever Rich (Free of all wants), Worthy of all praise.”
    [al-Nisa’ 4:131]


    You will only increase in hatefulness and loss in the sight of Allaah, you disbeliever, for you are one of the worst of living creatures, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “Verily, the worst of moving (living) creatures before Allaah are those who disbelieve, - so they shall not believe.”

    [al-Anfaal 8:55]



    O disbeliever, are you not going to die? Or do you doubt that as well? Do you know what your position will be when you die, if you die in a state of disbelief? Listen:


    “And if you could see when the angels take away the souls of those who disbelief (at death), they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): ‘Taste the punishment of the blazing Fire.’”


    [al-Anfaal 8:50]


    O disbeliever, woe to you from what will happen to you on the Day of Resurrection! Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “… so woe to the disbelievers from the meeting of a great Day (i.e., the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire).”


    [Maryam 19:37]




    We have an appointment with you after death, on the Day of Reckoning:


    “On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] will wish that they were buried in the earth, but they will never be able to hide a single fact from Allaah.”


    [al-Nisa’ 4:42]



    O disbeliever, do you know what Allaah has prepared for you if you die in a state of disbelief? Read:


    “And whosoever does not believe in Allaah and His Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)], then verily, We have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.”


    [al-Fath 48:13]




    “Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allaah and of the angels and mankind, combined.”

    [al-Baqarah 2:161]



    “Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from any one of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.”

    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:91]



    “Surely, those who reject Faith, neither their properties, nor their offspring will avail them aught against Allaah. They are the dwellers of the Fire, therein they will abide.”

    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:116]




    Do you know what you will have to drink in Hell if you die as a disbeliever? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “… But those who disbelieved will have a drink of boiling fluids and painful torment because they used to disbelieve.”

    [Yoonus 10:5]


    Do you know what you will have to wear on that Day? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “… Then as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling water will be poured down over their heads.”

    [al-Hajj 22:19]



    Do you know what kind of punishment you will endure?


    “Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Signs, We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment. Truly, Allaah is Ever Most Powerful, All-Wise.”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:56]

    “If only those who disbelieved knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the Fire from their faces, nor from their backs; and they will not be helped.”

    [al-Anbiya’ 21:39]



    O reviler, maybe on the Day of Judgement you will wish that you had been a Muslim in this world. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Perhaps (often) will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims.”


    [al-Hijr 15:2]


    O disbeliever, you are among those who have disbelieved and done wrong. Allaah says concerning you and your like (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily those who disbelieve and do wrong, Allaah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:168]



    “Those who disbelieve and deny our signs are those who will be the dwellers of the Hell-fire.”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:10]




    There you will have no life, but neither will you be able to find any respite in death. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “But those who disbelieve, for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!”

    [Faatir 35:36]




    O disbeliever, have the glad tidings of a punishment from which you will not be able to ransom yourself:


    “Verily, those who disbelieve, if they had all that is in the earth, and as much again therewith to ransom themselves thereby from the torment on the Day of Resurrection, it would never be accepted of them, and theirs would be a painful torment.”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:36]




    O disbeliever, if you want to mock Islam and its followers, this is nothing new:


    “Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allaah’s Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allaah gives (of His bounty on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit.”

    [al-Baqarah 2:212]



    O disbeliever, if you think that the light of Islam will be extinguished, then you are living in a world of illusions. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “They (the disbelievers) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the disbelievers hate (it).”

    [al-Tawbah 9:32]



    O disbeliever, do you know that you are cursed if you do not submit to Allaah, so save yourself from this curse:


    “Verily, Allaah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire (Hell).”

    [al-Ahzaab 33:64]


    There is still time for you to repent from sin and transgression, so long as you are still alive. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


    “Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).”

    [al-Anfaal 8:38]



    Whoever is guided, then it is for his own benefit, and whoever disbelieves, then Allaah has no need of His creation. The curse of Allaah be upon the disbelievers.


    Islam Q&A
    Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

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    format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah View Post
    There is no date. Allah was not created, He has always existed and is outside the dimension of time. The concept of time is something created, and Allah is not created.

    He is not bound by the things He creates.
    You know, asking someone when something, which IS NOT created, was created, is like asking a man, when did you give birth, and when he replies, I dont give birth, you say 'No no, just answer, when did you give birth'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    What you and a Few others here want is for people to tell you what you WANT / AGREE ..... To hear . And when this doesn't happen SOME here began to insult / name calling , And they 're allow to get away with it because they're muslims ,
    Maybe you could tell me and I'd deal with him, I dont know everything to be able to shut down any name calling any place, a tip off would be helpful.

    Last edited by Umar001; 06-12-2007 at 11:16 PM.
    Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi
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    MustafaMc's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    I love it when guys play on words . No matter how you play it the muslims God Allah came into existence1400 years after the Christian God .
    Of course.....a most foolish question answered most foolishly.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by evangel View Post
    Actually it's been quite a bit longer. You see, Abraham felt Sarah and he were getting a little old to have any children so, instead of waiting on the Lord to provide, he had relations with Sarah's servant and the result was Ishmail. After a bit, and in God's time, Sarah had Isaac, the promised son. After a bit again, Hagar (Ishmail's mom) wanted her son to have more of the birthright than what was in God's plan so Abraham made her leave with Ishmail. Ishmail's blessing was that He would be the patriarch of the Arab race. Of course we know Isaac was from where sprung the Hebrew race. Basically what we have here is an approximately 4000 year old family feud. Family feuds, if left to run with no reconciliation, get more contentious and bitter which is a pretty apt description of the middle east right now. Also it probably didn't help the way the son's (descendants) of Ishmail are described in the Old Testament, but I'll let you research that one, I've probably upset enough people already.
    Yeah, thx Evan, I already knew that one
    Ishmael sacrificed not issac, father of arabs , donkeys (asses) of men (strong/stupid). Hated by all.

    But thanks anyway
    Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005
    Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post


    You don't seem to have understood nor overstood.

    I was saying that;



    Instead of saying 1400 years after Christian God, which would mean the year, roughly 1397 CE, you mean 600 CE.

    If I wanted to, as some might put it, 'school you' that'd be pretty easy, but I have no inclination towards that.




    This only shows your lack of knowledge, if you'd like to discuss the validity of Hadith in Islam then feel free to start a thread. Wonder why you would reject the words of Muhammad, a Messenger of God, yet belive him when he said the Qur'an is the word of God. Well that's if you believe the Qur'an is the word of God, you do right?



    Just out of curiousity what post have I closed that you mention 'Another'? I'm getting on abit and I forget sometimes.

    Regards,

    Eesa




    Al Habeshi < Says > If I wanted to, as some might put it, 'school you' that'd be pretty easy, but I have no inclination towards that.


    Balthasar21 < Says > First you have to make up you mind which School Of Though you will use against me , Next thing you'll do is closed out the post because of my answer like you have done , Naaaaaa you don't want to try to school me of all people . Your not ready for me Yet . You speak of Hadith Yes Laughing here . Are you saying I Can Start A Post On Hadith's And you or any of the Moderators / Administrator Will Not Closed / Remove / Delete The Post YES or No ? ... Beware of what you ask for ok .
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post
    You know, asking someone when something, which IS NOT created, was created, is like asking a man, when did you give birth, and when he replies, I dont give birth, you say 'No no, just answer, when did you give birth'



    Maybe you could tell me and I'd deal with him, I dont know everything to be able to shut down any name calling any place, a tip off would be helpful.





    How can you not see what going when you read every post I post LOLOLOL
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by dougmusr View Post
    The problem is that the translation is distorted to shift the interpretation of the original arabic verse in an attempt to deceive those who don't know arabic into believing the Quran says something it does not. Certainly God did not intend to say that those who change His Word in the original language were guilty of sin while those who mistranslate it were not.
    Not to mention the quran has multiple writers"scribes if you wish" like the bible. The ability verify whether the quran changed before it was offically written down is impossible.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    Thanks for what? For the knowledge that all those who disbelieve are the lowest living beings on this planet? Or for the knowledge that my "garments of fire will be cut out for me" and "boiling water will be poured down over my head"?
    Remember you need boiling water to make "aldente"
    In the name of the GFSM may SBUY.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    Balthasar21 < Says > First you have to make up you mind which School Of Though you will use against me ,
    Which school of thought when we are to discuss the validity of hadith? Lol. You know non Muslims discuss the validity of Hadith, do they follow a school of thought?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    Next thing you'll do is closed out the post because of my answer like you have done , Naaaaaa you don't want to try to school me of all people . Your not ready for me Yet .
    Interesting how you 'predict' my very moves, yet fail to answer questions.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post
    Just out of curiousity what post have I closed that you mention 'Another'? I'm getting on abit and I forget sometimes.

    Regards,

    Eesa
    Do you normally ignore questions you find hard to answer? Did you ever reply about to the question about the article's creation on the other thread?


    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    You speak of Hadith Yes Laughing here . Are you saying I Can Start A Post On Hadith's And you or any of the Moderators / Administrator Will Not Closed / Remove / Delete The Post YES or No ? ... Beware of what you ask for ok .
    I will ask the other mods not to delete a thread you make on such a topic, so go ahead please. As long as you can discuss in a constructive civilised manner, we will be alright sir.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    How can you not see what going when you read every post I post LOLOLOL
    Great assumption, you think I read all of your posts? I did when you were new here, I put some effort, but after a while, I thought it best to leave you be, since you harldly replied to questions. Some people hear but hear not and see but see not.

    So if you want to give me alink to a post where you were insulted plesae do, if not then don't complain.

    format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2 View Post
    Not to mention the quran has multiple writers"scribes if you wish" like the bible. The ability verify whether the quran changed before it was offically written down is impossible.
    The two are miles apart. I might not have a video camera with footage but the chances are nowhere near each other.

    Regards,
    Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe View Post
    ccn i ask u sumtingz if u dnt mind.. why dnt u blive in god? bcuz u dont feel God? hav u tried 2 sit dwn and think abt dis? isnt better to blive in God than not 2? whats rong wid blieve in Allah? give me good valid bad points please.. they arent insultz and threats..!!! theyr just wht our lord told us in the Qur'aan abt the kafirs (disbelievers)
    l337??

    1t l337 iz v3r4 4n0y1n5.

    Why do you not believe in the christian god, IPU, GFSM, Zeus, Ball, SHiva.. ect...?
    How does one feel god? Emotions?
    Many atheists were former theists /deists and have thought in great detail about this.
    Why is it good to believe in a god? Apart from the obvious pascals wager argument I see it better to not believe in a god. I am able to act better and live a better life without wasting time or performing actions in the name of someone else for some imaginary prize. I feel my actions are performed more selflessly and I spend my time wiser.
    What wrong with believing in allah? Well apart from how poor of being i see alah, i see a problem with believing in something without any evidence. Even if "allah did exists i would not worship a being as described in the bible, torah or quran. I see those beings as not worthy of being worshiped.
    And threating hellfire or calling nonbelievers names is using threats and insults.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    Keep in mind no translation is the Qur'an. I believe most muslim when speaking to a non-Arabic speaking, Non-Muslim, would do his/her best to make that understood. Most will explain that there are several very good translations, yet none of them give an accurate meaning in all sentences.

    Arabic simply can not be translated accuratly into another language. Any translation is biased an the attempted views by the translator to Explain it in the other language. For a non-Arabic speaker to get a close concept of the Qur'an it is best to view several trasnslation and then seek the opinions of an Ababic speaking Muslim.

    To a person desiring to be Muslim, it is their responsibility to learn all they can about Islam from all possible sources. And then make their choice from knowledge they have sought and found themselves. All of us will admit that we do not have the ability to translate purely the Qur'an into your language. We can only state what we believe in terms of your language. We will make mistakes. However, no Muslim would deliberatly use the Qur'an to deceive.

    Regaurding translations.
    Why would god not make multiple perfecft translations? It seems to be a big mistake. Not to meniton even if you are a native speaker of arabic you have to have a "scholar" translate or tell you what it means. You too are not reading theactual quran. What you lose is meaning. Are you familiar with shakespear? Even if you are a native speaker of the language you still have to get a "translation" of what they said to what it means now.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    No matter how you slice / dice it the christian God was here before the muslim God Allah . Now if I'm wrong show me in your Qur'aan word for word date for date , Chapter for chapter , Verse for verse , No '' Hadiyth '' Which are word of men that can't be back up with your Qur'aan . When did Allah came into existance .
    You are making a major error in your logic. The Quran could be written TODAY, never before seen and Allah could still have predated Jehovah (assuming for the moment that the two exist). If these Gods exist then the holy books did not create them, and it is irrelevant when the holy books came to be. The books would just be communications with the God, not God itself.

    Are You Looking For Another Way To Closed Out Another Post Because You Can't Deal With Other Answer ?
    I agree with you that they are wrong, and that Allah isn't a God at all but an idea, and that it came to be when the Quran was written. But that simply isn't their paradigm or view. You asked them a question (When did Allah come to be). They answered it. It appears to be YOU who can not deal with their answer.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    Apparently you are using the freeware demo version. While it is excellent for showing the product, it does not contain the full features and is not under full warranty. In order to obtain the full version it is necessary to complete the Manufacturers contract, which we refer to as the Shahadah, the full manual which we call the Qur'an is available for free upon request. There are previous models still in existence but it is advised to be cautious of using them as they have been abused by previous users and the warranty has been violated and is no longer in effect for them. For the full warranty, you need to use the genuine product as provided by the Manufacturer.

    Woodrow you are one of my honest favorites here.
    You always seem to be in good humour and not bat quano crazy.
    Keep up with the humor and good nature. Peace.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
    Apparently you are using the freeware demo version. While it is excellent for showing the product, it does not contain the full features and is not under full warranty. In order to obtain the full version it is necessary to complete the Manufacturers contract, which we refer to as the Shahadah, the full manual which we call the Qur'an is available for free upon request. There are previous models still in existence but it is advised to be cautious of using them as they have been abused by previous users and the warranty has been violated and is no longer in effect for them. For the full warranty, you need to use the genuine product as provided by the Manufacturer.
    So how do we reach the manufacturer. I have written, sent emails, called, etc and I never get a reply. Of course perhaps Im sending to the wrong address or manufacturer.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    Question ; Was The prophet Muhammad influenced by The Christians ???
    christian responce, - yes.
    muslim repsonce - no
    mine- yes.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah View Post




    Guys (Woodrow and sis Malaikah), i think the trust was given to Adam, and since he was the first human, obviously it continued through his lineage. I think that's explained in Tafsir Ibn Kathir. And Allaah knows best.
    which is horrible way of punishing the children for what the parents did.

    I would like some evidence that allah knows best. "quite a few design flaws in his creation and all"
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    Now everyone know the christian God was here before the muslims God Allah Muslims God came 1400 years later , That why I ask were you given a two fold answer .
    He is saying that the jews and the christians did not correctly write down the answer. Mohammad did. "of course all religions say this pretty much"

    They of course have to say this or they lose a lot of ground.
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by barney View Post
    Oooh, its a long one with many twists and turns...but...

    Muslims beleive that their God is the Christian and Jewish god, but he came to them (arabs) with a update, because the Jews had corrupted the "word"
    The corruption of the word required retelling parts of it in a very different manner, which annoyed the jews and started a 1374 year long fight.

    Jews beleive their message is right, because they got it first. It tells them that they are special and the best.

    Christians beleive that The Jewish god came down to earth and switched from a ***** God into a Peaceful all loving god, told everyone to love him and everyone else, then went back up....about the same time as his death....which saved mankind from his own wrath. It gets confusing.

    that wraps it up.
    of course what gets me is why it took so long for alah to send down the correct version of his religion. But i guess he knew best that by not doing so there would be much conflict. He must have wanted this conflcit right?
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by duskiness View Post

    Have you read "Life of Pi" ......
    Speaking of
    Pi.

    Why is pi= to 3 in the bible?
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    Such a foolish question that only the most wretched would ask.
    wow insults? I take it you dont know the answer?
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    Re: Response to a stubborn disbeliever

    format_quote Originally Posted by Balthasar21 View Post
    I love it when guys play on words . No matter how you play it the muslims God Allah came into existence1400 years after the Christian God .
    the muslim concept came into existence. From their point of view he always existed. He was just really bad at getting his message across.
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