Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

**islamicfajr** · 11-15-2006

Wellcome here..

Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

Question:
Why is it so difficult for the Muslims to believe that Christ was crucified to erase our sins? Why do they reject the idea of the Crucifixion altogether?.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

There is nothing strange about the Muslims rejecting this idea, because the Qur’aan in which they believe and accept what it tells them definitively states that that did not happen, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]”

[al-Nisa’ 4:157]

Rather the problem rests with the Christians for whom the doctrine of the crucifixion and redemption has become a central issue, so much so that the cross is the symbol of their religion.
It is strange that they differ concerning the form of this cross which indicates their confusion about this fabrication.
There are differences between their Gospels and their historians regarding everything that has to do with the story of the crucifixion.
They differ concerning the timing of the Last Supper, which according to them was one of the events in the lead-up to the crucifixion. They differ concerning the traitor who led (the Romans) to Christ – did that happen at least one day before the Last Supper, as narrated by Luke, or during it, after Christ gave him the piece of bread, as narrated by John?

Was Christ the one who carried his cross, as John says, as was customary with one who was going to be crucified, according to Nottingham, or was it Simon of Cyrene, as the other three Gospels state?

They say that two thieves were crucified alongside Christ, one on his right and one on his left, so what was the attitude of these two towards the Messiah who was being crucified, as they claim?

Did the thieves scorn him for being crucified, and say that his Lord had abandoned him and left him to his enemies? Or did only one of them scorn him, and did the other rebuke the one who scorned him?

At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?

What happened after the so-called crucifixion?

Mark says that the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Matthew adds that the earth shook and rocks crumbled, and many of the saints rose from their graves and entered the holy city, appearing to many. Luke says that the sun turned dark, and the veil of the Temple was torn in the middle, and when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God and said, “Truly this man was righteous.”
But John does not know anything about all that!

These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!

How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said in His Book which He has preserved (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do they not then consider the Qur’aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”
[al-Nisa’ 4:82]

Apart from the fact that the gospel accounts are not sound, and their authors themselves admit that they were not revealed to the Messiah in this form, nor were they even written during his lifetime, none of the witnesses were present at the events to which they testify, as Mark says:

“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”
Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)

Because these events were not witnessed by anyone who narrated them, there is a great deal of room for imagination and poetic licence.
We will complete our discussion of the fable of the crucifixion of Christ (peace be upon him) by looking at what the Gospels say about the Messiah’s prediction that he would be saved from death:
On one occasion the Pharisees and chief priests sent the guards to arrest him and he said to them:

“I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.”

John 7:33-34 – NIV

Elsewhere he says:

“Once more Jesus said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.’
This made the Jews ask, ‘Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, “Where I go, you cannot come”?’

But he continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.’
‘Who are you?’ they asked.

‘Just what I have been claiming all along,’ Jesus replied. ‘I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.’

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.
So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.’”
John 8:21-29 – NIV

Then at the end he tells them again:

“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'”

Matthew 23:39 – NIV, also Luke 13:35

The Messiah, as these texts and others show, was certain that God would never hand him over to his enemies, and would never forsake him.

“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
John 16:32-33

Because of that the passers by, and indeed everyone who attended the so-called crucifixion, mocked the Messiah, as the writer of this Gospel says (although that could not have been true):

“Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads
and saying, ‘You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!’

In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.

‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.

He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, “I am the Son of God.”’
In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.”

Matthew 27:39-44 – NIV

But it seems that Jesus’ certainty that God was with him began to waver, according to the distorted Gospel narrative, (although that could not have been true):

“Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, ‘Sit here while I go over there and pray.’
He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’
Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping.
…
He went away a second time and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’

When he came back, he again found them sleeping, …
So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, ‘Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners’”

Matthew 26:36-45 – NIV

Luke describes the scene and says:
“And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.

‘Why are you sleeping?’ he asked them. ‘Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.’”
Luke 22:44-46 – NIV

Because of this mockery of the message of Christ – according to their claims – and because Christ thought that God was with him and would never forsake him, then it follows that the writer who fabricated this dramatic scene would end it with a vision of the despair of the Messiah and his feelings of being abandoned by God – exalted be Allaah far above what the wrongdoers say. The fabricator says:

“From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Matthew 27:38-47 – NIV

See also Mark 15:34

If we understand what this story means when subjected to criticism, the same will apply to the doctrine of redemption and sacrifice that is based on it.
With regard to the Christian doctrine of salvation, see also question no. 6
And Allaah is the Source of strength and the guide to the Straight Path, and there is no Lord but He.

Islam Q&A

peace,

islamicfajr

**Joe98** · 11-15-2006

Actually it proves there cannot be a god. If there were a god he would not have organised the whole thing so badly.

**Malaikah** · 11-15-2006

wow wicked post!

Joe98, your post makes no sense.

**syilla** · 11-15-2006

Originally Posted by Joe98

Actually it proves there cannot be a god. If there were a god he would not have organised the whole thing so badly.

organised what?

**IzakHalevas** · 11-16-2006

I believe Joe is refering to the fact that if G-d is all knowing, why did he not forsee all of this happening? A statement, which no one has produced an answer for, and I am curious to see what people may say. My belief, is that everyone was a false prophet and the Torah is sill true, but I respect your beliefs and look foward to your comments on Joe's post.

**Malaikah** · 11-16-2006

^If that is what he meants, it in no way proves that there is no God! It only provides evidence that christianity has issues.

**Skillganon** · 11-16-2006

Originally Posted by IzakHalevas

My belief, is that everyone was a false prophet and the Torah is sill true, but I respect your beliefs and look foward to your comments on Joe's post.

On what basis?

Qur'an, its Surah Al-Baqarah verse 87 it says:

"We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers; we gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a Messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride? Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!"

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 11-16-2006

The man who was killed in place of Jesus(pbuh), was a betrayer. He wasn't a good innocent person, according to Islam.

**Trumble** · 11-16-2006

These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!

How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book.

Why do so-called 'scholars' bother with this rubbish rather than finding something more useful to do?

Self-evidently it is not "impossible" to believe it as Christians don't have any trouble. They accept quite happily (or at least most of them do) that the Gospels were written by different authors at different times some time after the events described, and that small differences in detail (and that's all it is,detail) were probably inevitable. I just doesn't bother them.

There is no "desperation" whatsoever as the core elements, what is actually important, is accepted by all. As, unlike the Qur'an, the Bible is not (generally) believed to be the direct Word of God, such inconsistencies are of no real importance, making all muslim attempts to "disprove" the Bible by dragging them up irrelevant to anyone but muslims - who don't need them anyway.

**Muslim Knight** · 11-16-2006

Originally Posted by Joe98

Actually it proves there cannot be a god. If there were a god he would not have organised the whole thing so badly.

Actually there can be God. And in the Quran, He explains why the whole thing was "organized" as it is so;

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; (Surah Al-Maaida 5:48)

We can debate all we want about Cruxifixion but Allah tells us that Jesus 'alayhi salaam is one of His Prophets and he hadn't been crucified and that he did not die.

That they (the Jews) said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- (Surah An-Nisaa' 4:157)

It is in God's Plan for the whole thing to go off as it had gone so (however bad you may see it, it is of your own perspective) that men will be tested whether they will submit to Him (in worship) or follow a conjecture and worship Jesus despite being repeatedly proven that he's just a human being albeit a Prophet chosen by Allah.

Just my two cents. Wallahu 'alam.

**duskiness** · 11-16-2006

My dear islamicfajr,
in Quran you will also find verses that at first sight are contradicting each other, are calling people to kill others, allow wife beating...(i bet you know this list). And then you turn to history of text, to Arabic dictionaries or simply to commentaries.
Could you be so nice and apply the same rules, you use yourself (and probably ask others to use when speaking about Quran) to speaking about Bible???

I believe that Jesus had a moment of doubt and was mocked. I have no problems with it. I don't know why it's so strange to you?

this fabrication

How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book.

gospel accounts are not sound

the fable of the crucifixion of Christ

This unsound fabrication about this fable is important to me. i don't ask you to believe it, or stop your tries to prove me wrong. But i think it would be nice, if you could respect my faith.

I'm here ....let me check it...since June. Something like 5 months

. And today i'm tired.
I'm also tried both physically and mentally, what probably also plays it role..but right now I'm tried of being Christian on LI
As much as like LI and you all, I'm tired of being "called to blackboard" and being "proved" what an idiot i must be believing in Christ.
So i'm taking holidays from forum.

All the best to you all! you are really a great bunch of people! I hope i will be back sometime in the future.

The LORD bless you and keep you;
the LORD make his face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;

Till then!
natalia

**Malaikah** · 11-16-2006

Originally Posted by duskiness

I believe that Jesus had a moment of doubt and was mocked. I have no problems with it. I don't know why it's so strange to you?

It's strange because you believe he is God! God- the All Knowing! The All Powerful! What does He have to doubt in? Is He to be overcome by His creations??

If there is room for God Himself to have doubts, what does that leave for us humans?

ffended:

**Eric H** · 11-16-2006

Hello natalia; I hope that you are able to survive this experience and come back again. You bring a wonderful gift to this forum by living your faith despite all your anxiety.

I'm here ....let me check it...since June. Something like 5 months . And today i'm tired.
I'm also tried both physically and mentally, what probably also plays it role..but right now I'm tried of being Christian on LI
As much as like LI and you all, I'm tired of being "called to blackboard" and being "proved" what an idiot i must be believing in Christ.
So i'm taking holidays from forum.

I am so sorry that you are suffering inside, forums can be a bruising experience especially if we are in the minority, and I also suffer as a Christian with some of the replies. I have to admire your courage to take a break and not yield to the temptation of retaliating in an angry way.

I have found the need to pray for peace in my own heart, somehow that gives me some kind of perseverance to keep going but it can be difficult at times.

You have again highlighted why it is so important for all of us to be kind to each other despite our differences. Of course we disagree and that is not so important, how we treat each other is key to human relationships.

May the Lord bless you.

Eric

**islamicfajr** · 11-17-2006

u believe jesus as..God.. see :If Jesus was GOD

Aslo i'm here to show u : The Door to Eternal Paradise
...to :Salvation from Hellfire
..To find : Real Happiness and Inner Peace

ur Here to know about islam :Is the Religion True or False?

see : Unique Features of Islaam

...when u reverted to islam = Forgiveness for All Previous Sins

to show u : A-Z of Islam

if i talk about Bible and saied : Is The Bible God's Word?

that's to show u the Tuth..

when u talk about killing ppls see :Does Islam = Terrorism?

any way All some Articles Quoted from Bible:

As :Who is the Awaited Prophet in the Bible?

and : Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad

Muhummed The Natural Successor To Christ

Also to show u : The True Message of Jesus Christ

and we give u simple Article about :Christ in Islam

u shall know .. ISLAAM - The Call to Submission

Alhamduillah..we have the Holy Quran..

see: On the Virtues and Excellence of the Qur'aan

we believe in the prophet muhammad the most revered prophet

The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His Books, and His Messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey, (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." (2:285)

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
"We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Messengers."
[al-Baqarah 2:285].

Ibn Katheer said in his Tafseer of this aayah:

The believers believe in all the Prophets and Messengers, and the books revealed from heaven to the slaves of Allaah, the Messengers and Prophets; they do not differentiate between any of them, believing in some and rejecting others. Rather they regard all of them as truthful, righteous, rightly-guided and guiding to the path of goodness, even though some of them abrogated the laws of others, until all of them were abrogated by the sharee’ah of Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets and Messengers, upon whose sharee’ah the Hour will cone.(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/736)

With regard to the superiority of some of the Prophets over one another, Allaah has told us of this, when He said (interpretation of the meaning):
“Those Messengers! We preferred some of them to others; to some of them Allaah spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour)”
[al-Baqarah 2:253]

Allaah tells us that some of them are several degrees above others, hence the chosen ones among the Messengers are “those of strong will”.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) when We took from the Prophets their covenant, and from you (O Muhammad), and from Nooh (Noah), Ibraaheem (Abraham), Moosaa (Moses), and ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary). We took from them a strong covenant”
[al-Ahzaab 33:7]

And Muhammad wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the best of them. This is indicated by the fact that he was their imaam on the night of the Mi’raaj, because no one but the best is put forward. More evidence that he is the best of them comes from Abu Hurayrah, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘I will be the leader of the sons of Adam on the Day of Resurrection, and the first one for whom the grave will be opened, and the first to intercede, and the first whose intercession will be accepted.’”
(Narrated by Muslim, al-Fadaa’il, 4223)

Al-Nawawi said in his commentary on Saheeh Muslim:

The phrase “I will be the leader of the sons of Adam on the Day of Resurrection and the first one for whom the grave will be opened, and the first to intercede, and the first whose intercession will be accepted”: al-Harawi said: the leader (sayyid) is the one who surpasses his people in goodness. Someone else said: He is the one to whom they turn at times of calamity and hardship, so he takes care of them, carries their burdens and protects them.

The phrase “the Day of Resurrection” – even though he is their leader in this world and in the Hereafter. The reason for this specific mention is that on the Day of Resurrection his position of leadership will become apparent to everyone, and there will no longer be anyone who disputes or stubbornly rejects it, unlike the case in this world when the kings of the kuffaar and the leaders of the mushrikeen competed with him. The scholars said, he wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not say ““I will be the leader of the sons of Adam” out of pride. Indeed, that is clearly stated in the famous hadeeth narrated by compilers other than Muslim: “I will be the leader of the sons of Adam, and I am not boasting.” Rather, he said it for two reasons. The first was in obedience to the command of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning): “And proclaim the Grace of your Lord”, and the second was that it was part of the message that he was commanded to convey in totality to his ummah so that they would acknowledge his status and believe in him, and do as he commanded, and respect him wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as required by his status and as Allaah commanded them. This hadeeth implies that he is superior to all of creation, because the view of Ahl al-Sunnah is that human beings, i.e., the people of obedience and piety, are superior to the angels, and he wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is superior to human beings and to others. With regard to the other hadeeth – “Do not differentiate between the Prophets” – it may be responded to in five ways. The first is that he wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said this before he knew that he was the leader of the sons of Adam; then when he came to know he spoke of it. The second is that he said it out of politeness and humility. The third is that the prohibition refers to the kind of differentiation that leads to undermining the position of the one who is less preferred. The fourth is that the prohibition applies to the kind of differentiation that leads to dispute and fitnah (tribulation), as is well known in the reason for the hadeeth. The fifth is that the prohibition applies only in the case of prophethood itself, not to superiority within the ranks of the Prophets; rather, it applies to superiority in characteristics and other virtues, so it is essential to believe in that.
Allaah says wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(interpretation of the meaning):
“Those Messengers! We preferred some of them to others…”
[al-Baqarah 2:253]
And Allaah knows best.
The characteristics of the Prophet wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) confirm that he is superior to the rest of the Messengers. We will mention some of them which are narrated in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:
Allaah has singled out the Qur’aan, to the exclusion of other Books, to be preserved.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”
[al-Hijr 15:9]

In the case of the other Books, Allaah entrusted their protection to their people.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning]
“Verily, We did send down the Tawraat (Torah) [to Moosa (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allaah’s Will, judged for the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests [too judged for the Jews by the Tawraat (Torah) after those Prophets], for to them was entrusted the protection of Allaah’s Book, and they were witnesses thereto
[al-Maa’idah 5:44]
He is the Seal of the Prophets and Messengers.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last (end) of the Prophets”
[al-Ahzaab 33:40]
He is unique in that he was sent to all of mankind.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Blessed be He Who sent down the criterion (of right and wrong, i.e. this Qur’aan) to His slave (Muhammad) that he may be a warner to the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)”
[al-Furqaan 25:1]

Among his unique characteristics in the Hereafter:
He will be the owner of the “position of praise and glory (al-maqaam al-mahmood)” on the Day of Resurrection.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And in some parts of the night (also) offer the Salaah (prayer) with it (i.e. recite the Qur’aan in the prayer) as an additional prayer (Tahajjud optional prayer Nawaafil) for you (O Muhammad). It may be that your Lord will raise you to Maqaam Mahmood (a station of praise and glory, i.e., the honour of intercession on the Day of Resurrection)”
[al-Israa’ 17:78]

Ibn Jareer said: most of the commentators said that is the position which he wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will occupy in order to intercede for the people on the Day of Resurrection, to ask that their Lord might grant them respite from the great hardship that they are suffering on this Day.”
(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 5/103)

And he will be the leader of all of mankind on the Day of Resurrection, as stated in the hadeeth quoted above.
He will be the first one to cross al-Siraat with his ummah. Al-Bukhaari narrated a lengthy hadeeth concerning that from Abu Hurayrah, in which it says, “… and I will be the first one among the Messengers to lead his ummah across it.” (al-Adhaan, 764).

Another indication that he is the best of the Prophets is the fact that they will not intercede, rather one of them will refer the people to another, until ‘Eesa refers them to Muhammad wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He will say, “I (will do it),” then he will step forward to intercede for everyone, and the first and the last will praise him for that, the Prophets and the rest of mankind.
His unique characteristics, as mentioned in the ayaat and saheeh ahaadeeth, are too many to mention in this brief summary; entire books have been written on this topic.

See Kitaab Khasaa’is al-Mustafa (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) bayna al-Ghulw wa’l-Jafaa’ by al-Saadiq ibn Muhammad, 33-79

To sum up, we prefer our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) over all the other Prophets and over all of mankind, because of the evidence that has been narrated concerning that, whilst also respecting the rights of the other Prophets and Messengers and believing in them and respecting them

================================================== ========

plz keep in ur mind we here to attack other..we here to help the orther find the Turh..if u find my post no useful to u..or not remove any Misconceptions..it's k..

as : Misconception: Islam Degrades Women

================================================== ========

With regard to Muslim belief concerning jesus (peace be upon him), it is based on the evidence of the Qur’aan and Sunnah. jesus ‘Eesa (Jesus) – (peace be upon him) – is one of the greatest Messengers. Muslims believe that ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) was taken up by Allaah into heaven alive, and that he was neither crucified nor killed. He will remain alive until the onset of the Hour approaches, then he will descend to earth and will kill the Dajjaal, break the cross and kill the pigs, and he will rule according to Islamic sharee’ah, then he will die – peace be upon him – like all other humans.

Imam Abu Muhammad ‘Abd al-Haqq ibn ‘Atiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The ummah is unanimously agreed on what is stated in the mutawaatir hadeeth that ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) is alive in heaven, and he will descend at the end of time and will kill the pigs, break the cross and kill the Dajjaal; justice will prevail and he will support this nation – the nation of Muhammad – and it will prevail as a result, and he will perform pilgrimage to the Ka’bah, doing Hajj and ‘Umrah, then Allaah will cause him to die.

Al-Muharrar al-Wajeez (3/143)

Al-Safaareeni (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The ummah is unanimously agreed that he will descend and none of those who follow sharee’ah disagreed with that. Rather it was denied by the philosophers and heretics whose dissent is of no importance. There is consensus among the ummah that he will descend and will rule according to the sharee’ah of Muhammad wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). No new law will be revealed when he descends from heaven.
Lawaami’ al-Anwaar al-Bahiyyah (2/94, 95)

u should keep in ur mind that : Muslim belive in All Prophets ..

Allah wisdom decreed that Adam (peace be upon him) should be the father of mankind, and His wisdom, mercy and justice decreed that from among Adam’s progeny He should select an elite of Messengers and Prophets – may peace and blessings be upon them and upon our Prophet. Among those whom He chose and preferred over others were the Messengers of strong will [Uloo’l-‘Azm, see al-Ahqaaf 46:35],
namely, Muhammad, Ibraaheem, Nooh, Moosa and ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam, may the best of blessings and peace be upon them. And He chose and favoured above them all their leader, the final Messenger, our Prophet Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He is indeed the leader of the sons of Adam, with no boast.

He will carry the banner and will be granted the power of intercession [on the Day of Resurrection].

He is the one who will attain al-maqaam al-mahmood (the Praised Position) in Paradise, which will be given to one person only, and that person will be our Prophet wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Hence Allaah took the covenant and pledge from all the Prophets that if Muhammad wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent during the lifetime of any one of them, they would be obliged to follow him wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), to leave behind what they had brought and follow what our Prophet wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) brought.

As Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) when Allaah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: ‘Take whatever I gave you from the Book and Hikmah (understanding of the Laws of Allaah), and afterwards there will come to you a Messenger (Muhammad) confirming what is with you; you must, then, believe in him and help him.’ Allaah said: ‘Do you agree (to it) and will you take up My Covenant (which I conclude with you)?’ They said: ‘We agree.’ He said: ‘Then bear witness; and I am with you among the witnesses (for this).’ Then whoever turns away after this, they are the Faasiqoon (rebellious: those who turn away from Allaah’s obedience)”
[Aal-Imraan 3:81-82]

The Prophet wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him): “By Allaah, if my brother Moosa were alive, he would have no choice but to follow me.”

And when the Messiah ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam (peace be upon him) comes down at the end of time, he will come to rule in accordance with the sharee’ah of Muhammad wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and he will follow him wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

All of the above refers to their status before Allaah. With regard to their religion, it is one religion, for they all called people to believe in One God, Allaah (Tawheed) and to devote worship sincerely to Him Alone. With regard to laws, each of them had his own law which was for his people alone.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way”
[al-Maa’idah 5:48]

. But the way (sharee’ah) of our Prophet Muhammad wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the most perfect, the best, the most complete and the most beloved to Allaah; it abrogates all laws that came before it. Undoubtedly the Prophets differ in status, and they are at varying levels. The best of them, as stated above, are the five Messengers of strong will (Uloo’l-‘Azm), and the best of them all is the Seal of the Prophets, Muhammad wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

the prophet Muhammed wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

is undoubtedly the best of them all, for he led them in prayer in Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem) on the night of the Israa’. He will be the leader of the sons of Adam on the Day of Resurrection, and he is the only one among all the Messengers who will be granted the power of intercession on that Day. He wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the one who said: “From among the sons of Adam, Allaah chose Quraysh; from among Quraysh He chose Kinaanah; from among Kinaanah He chose Bani Haashim; and from among Bani Haashim He chose me.” He wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Chosen One (al-Mustafaa) from among all of mankind.

Allah Saied:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Allah is the protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the Evil Ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (forever). (2:256-257)

================================================== ========

islam is the religion of Allah

Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning. (3 :19 )

islam is the religion accepted by Allah

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers. ( 3 :85)

Don't stop ..saying why...see : why islam ?

Ahamduillah ,Islam continues to be successful in the developed world, and elsewhere, because its call is in accordance with the fitrah or natural inclinations of mankind, and it advocates the best of human values, such as tolerance, love, mercy, truthfulness and sincerity.

Islam educates people and lifts them up to righteous conduct, good manners and virtue. Its call is distinguished from others by its realism, balance and moderation. Islam pays due attention to both the soul and the body. It neither suppresses physical desires nor allows extravagance in this regard; it makes a distinction between the natural inclination to enjoy the pleasures of this world and forbidden desires that come under the heading of depravity and perversion.

People embrace Islam because they find security, comfort and peace in it, they see a cure for their problems in it, and through it they are able to get rid of their feelings of confusion, anxiety and loss.

Islam is the religion of the fitrah, the natural inclination or pattern on which Allaah has created mankind. For this reason, people of sound minds and upright inclinations embrace Islam, as Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘There is no child who is not born in a state of fitrah (i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew, a Christian or a Magian (Zoroastrian), just as animals produce whole animals (i.e., the animals are born perfect with no part of their bodies missing). Do you find any born with their ears cut off?’” Then Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “ ‘… Allaah’s handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allaah: that is the Standard Religion…’
[al-Room 30:30 – interpretation of the meaning – Yusuf Ali’s translation].”
(Reported by al-Bukhaari, 1359).

What is meant is that Allaah has created mankind with the potential to learn the truth, accept Tawheed (pure monotheism) and submit to Allaah. Their natural inclination is to learn Islam and love it, but a bad education, a kaafir (disbelieving) environment, their own whims and desires and the devils among jinn and mankind turn them away from the truth.

Mankind is basically inclined towards Tawheed (pure monotheism), as the Prophet wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) reported that his Lord (Allaah) said: “I created all my slaves as ‘hunafa’ (pure monetheists), but the devils turned them away from their religion.” (Reported by Muslim).

For this reason the one who becomes a Muslim after having been a disbeliever is described as having “reverted” to Islam, as this is more correct than saying that he “converted.” When Islam enters a country where there is no nationalism or great legacy of jaahiliyah (ignorance), it spreads quickly because of its strength and the small number of obstacles. You may also see that Islam is suitable for all people, educated and uneducated, male and female, old and young; everyone finds in it what he wants and needs. Those who become Muslim in developed countries realize what their country’s civilization and laws, which have been fabricated from men’s whims and desires, have done to them, and they realize the extent of the misery in which people in developed countries are living. They see how prevalent psychological illnesses, nervous breakdowns, insanity and suicides are, despite the technological advances and great number of discoveries and inventions and modern systems of management. This is because all of that is concerned only with the physical and the outward, but it neglects the inward and fails to nourish and nurture the heart and soul.

Allaah says of these people (interpretation of the meaning): “They know only the outside appearance of the life of the world, and they are heedless of the Hereafter.” [al-Room 30:7]

Islam will continue to succeed, with the permission of Allaah, so long as those who work for its sake are sincere and its followers adhere to it and believe in it, and apply its laws.

The fact that there are those who are not committed or who fall short will not prevent Islam from succeeding, with the permission of Allaah, and nothing can distort its beauty. Its light will not falter because some people abandon it or fail to adhere to it. What Islam has given humanity in the way of progress and civilization, and lifting them up from the darkness of oppression and enmity, is pride enough.

=============================================

islam is the Turth .....

..and Allah saied:

Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide, He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying, He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.
(6:125)

The religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account (3:19)

If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). (3:85)

=====================
[22] Is one whose heart Allah has opened to Islam, so that he has received enlightenment from Allah, (no better than one hard-hearted)? Woe to those whose hearts are hardened against celebrating the praises of Allah! they are manifestly wandering (in error)!

[23] Allah has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah: He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide.

(39:22-23)

===================
Have We not expanded thee thy breast? (94:1)

But Allah saied:

[106].......but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

[107] This because they love the life of this world better than the Hereafter: and Allah will not guide those who reject Faith.

[108] Those are they whose hearts, ears, and eyes Allah has sealed up, and they take no heed.

[109] Without doubt, in the Hereafter they will perish.

(16:106-109)

=============================

Even i was born Arabic Muslim..but i know there is No nationality in islam..

i.e All Muslim is one Nation..

Allah send the last messenger prophet , Muhammad wwwislamicboardcom - Discussion with a Christian about the Crucifixion

to All (humans and jinns)

yeah.. islam is a universal (Messenger) ..Men and jinns

I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.(51:56)

"O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you Messengers from amongst you, setting forth unto you My Signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith. (6:130)

======================
[29] Behold, We turned towards thee a company of Jinns (quietly) listening to the Qur-an: when they stood in the presence thereof, they said, "Listen in silence!" when the (reading) was finished, they returned to their people, to warn (them of their sins).

[30] They said, "O our people! we have heard a Book revealed after Musa, confirming what came before it: it guides (men) to the Truth and to a Straight Path.

[31] "O our people, hearken to the one who invites (you) to Allah, and believe in him: He will forgive you your faults, and deliver you from a Penalty Grievous

[32] "If any does not hearken to the one who invites (us) to Allah, he cannot frustrate (Allah's Plan) on earth, and no protectors can he have besides Allah: such men (wander) in manifest error."

(46:31)

============================
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[1] Say: It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur-an). They said, ' We have really heard a wonderful Recital!

[2] 'It gives guidance to the Right, and we have believed therein: we shall not join (in worship) any (gods) with our Lord.

[3] `And exalted is the Majesty of our Lord: He has taken neither a wife nor a son.

[4] 'There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter extravagant lies against Allah;

[5] `But we do think that no man or spirit should say aught that is untrue against Allah.

(72:1-5)
...........

[13] `And as for us, since we have listened to the Guidance, we have accepted it: and any who believes in his Lord has no fear, either of a short (account) or of any injustice.

[14] `Amongst us are some that submit their wills (to Allah), and some that swerve from justice. Now those who submit their wills; they have sought out (the path) of right conduct

(72:13-14)

................

Allah saied:

We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not. (34:28)

===============

Allah saied:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things). (49:13)

And verily this Brotherhood of yours is a single Brotherhood. And I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other). (23:52)

The Believers are but a single Brotherhood... .(49:10)..

And hold fast, all together, by the Rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; .... (3:103)

======================
finally..Alhamduillah 4 blessing of islam..

Alhamduillah 4 be Muslim..Alhamduillah to born Muslim..

..............

1 would like to congratulate myselves for having been guided by Allaah to embrace Islam, the true and final religion. I ask Allaah to help me remain steadfast in adhering to it until we die.

peace,

islamicfajr

**snakelegs** · 11-17-2006

Originally Posted by duskiness

And today i'm tired.
I'm also tried both physically and mentally, what probably also plays it role..but right now I'm tried of being Christian on LI
As much as like LI and you all, I'm tired of being "called to blackboard" and being "proved" what an idiot i must be believing in Christ.
So i'm taking holidays from forum.

All the best to you all! you are really a great bunch of people! I hope i will be back sometime in the future.

Till then!
natalia

i hope you come back after you've had some time to recover. i've enjoyed your posts. as far as i know, you have never been the least bit disrespectful, but you have frequently not been treated that way in return.
take care.

**islamicfajr** · 11-17-2006

..May Allah open ur Heart Ameen..

**Umar001** · 11-17-2006

Originally Posted by Tayyaba

The man who was killed in place of Jesus(pbuh), was a betrayer. He wasn't a good innocent person, according to Islam.

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah,

Sister, please show me that the man who was killed in Jesus' place, according to Islam was a bad person, I have yet to see this.

As a Christian I had heard so many different theories on who this person was, so please show me where Islam teaches the above.

Eesa

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 11-17-2006

I heard a lecture on it from i think Yusuf Estes or someone, I didnt read it. I'd have to look for it. All I know is i got it from a scholar and is not of my own...
Remember that it was made appear to them it was Jesus(pbuh), but rather it was someone else. Why would Allah(swt) cause death to an innocent? Think about it.
I can't explain the story cuz i heard of it a while back. So dont count on my words as of yet until im certain.

**Umar001** · 11-17-2006

Originally Posted by Tayyaba

I heard a lecture on it from i think Yusuf Estes or someone, I didnt read it. I'd have to look for it. All I know is i got it from a scholar and is not of my own...
Remember that it was made appear to them it was Jesus(pbuh), but rather it was someone else. Why would Allah(swt) cause death to an innocent? Think about it.
I can't explain the story cuz i heard of it a while back. So dont count on my words as of yet until im certain.

Well, I had read some statements from people of old that Jesus peace be upon him asked his companions and noone offered but a young guy and then Jesus peace be upon him said no and then he asked again and the young guy offered and so the young guy then took the place of Jesus peace be upon him.