Not every group that uses the name "Church" is Christian.

**Grace Seeker** · 11-25-2006

I haven't been on these boards very long, but I would like to clear up what seems to me to be an obvious misconception -- namely not every group that uses the name "Church" in their title is Christian.

The most recent one I read was a thread asking about Scientology, and another person responded that he thought it was a sect of Christianity. Scientology is not Christian, and no Scientologist would claim that it is.

LIkewise Jehovah's Witnesses are not a sect within Christianity.

Some other groups that you may mistakenly think are Christian because of their name, but which would disagree with any of the teachings of the rest of Christians include:

The Christian Science Church -- they do not think that there even is a real physical world, that the only thing that is real is truth and everything else is error. So, people don't even really get sick, and if you focus on the truth you won't ever get sick.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (usually known as the Mormons) -- they call themselves Christians, but they deny that anyone else is a Christians, so they are basically saying that no other church believes the same as them. Thus, if you think that other groups are Christians, then you are saying that they are wrong and they are not Christians, for they refused to be grouped with any other Christian Churches. They God is a corpreal being living in heaven where he and his wives have given birth to many spirit children. It is important for Mormons to have as many children on this earth as possible, because that is how these spirit children are born into this world. Then if you go through all of the ceremonies of the Mormons and do good things you will go to the hightest of many levels of heaven where you too will become a God of your own planet and have many spirit children and the whole process repeats itself over again.

The Unification Church -- This group believes that Rev. Sun Myung Moon and his wife are a divine couple and have gotten the nickname "Moonies". They teach somethig they call the eternal principle which is a mix of a little bit of several different religions.

There are many others groups. Of course, it is true that there are also many denominations within Christiandom. This no doubt makes it hard for those who know little about Christianity. I just ask that you not consider everything that uses the term "Church" in its name to be Christian. Even among those groups that are truly Christian you will find there are many different beliefs on minor issues. But on major issues, such as who is Jesus Christ, all Christian groups agree.

**Grace Seeker** · 12-10-2006

Originally Posted by KAding

Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Unitarians are the moonies, rught?

Moonies??? They sound wonderful!!!
From wikipedia:

So tolerant and supporting, it almost makes me want to cry

.

You provided good information on the Unitarian Universalists, but be aware that they are NOT Moonies. Moonies are members of the Unification "Church", a completely different and unrelated group. Of course, by neither Keltoi's nor even Snakeleg's definition are either of these two groups Christian.

**Grace Seeker** · 12-10-2006

Originally Posted by snakelegs

grace seeker,
that quote from the jehovah's witness folks was really interesting.
hope i remember it if i ever feel a desire to become a christian - i will check them out first.
interersting - they also call other christians non-christians.
do you know if JW's believe in the divinity of jesus?
thanks!

p.s. i have learned more about christianity on this forum than in my whole life!

Hey! Then all of this confusing, and hopefully clarifying, conversation is doing some good.

In answer to JW views about Christ's divinity. No, I don't believe they would recognize it. Jehovah's Witnesses disagree with the mainstream Christian belief that Jesus was "fully God, fully man." Witnesses teach that Jesus was not God, but rather God's first creation. Jesus existed in pre-human form as God's agent of creation and God's chief spokesman (the Word), and took on human form as the man Jesus by means of a virgin birth.

The purpose of Jesus' incarnation on earth was threefold in the view of Witnesses: (1) To teach the truth about God; (2) to provide a model of a perfect life for people to follow; and (3) to sacrifice his life to set humans free from sin and death. His crucifixion was not on a cross, but a single upright stake. After his death, God raised Jesus from the dead "as a spirit creature" and Jesus returned to his home in heaven. Jesus was not made King, however, until 1914.

The above is a summary of information provided on the follow JW website: Who Is Jesus Christ?

**Grace Seeker** · 12-10-2006

Originally Posted by Skillganon

Originally Posted by snakelegs
this is probably a stupid question. (won't be first, won't be last).
if someone believes in the trinity does that mean he automatically believes in the divinity of jesus?

I am not speaking for christianity, but the whole concept of Trinity is based on 3 person in 1 God. That meaning they do believe Jesus devine and the holy Ghost. Co-equal but of the same essence.

Skillganon, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I hope when someone asks me a question about Islam, I can represent your beliefs as well as you just presented mine.

**snakelegs** · 12-10-2006

thanks for your reply, GS.

**Skillganon** · 12-10-2006

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Skillganon, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I hope when someone asks me a question about Islam, I can represent your beliefs as well as you just presented mine.

No problem.

Well, I just provided the common dogma without my thought's concerning it, which I am sure one will appreciate less if I did so.

**snakelegs** · 12-10-2006

ooooopss, skillganon!
thanks for your reply too!

**Muslim Woman** · 03-09-2007

I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)

&&

Originally Posted by YusufNoor

.....ALL Christians should observe the Sabbath and all of the ancient Israeli Holy Days. ...... and ALL Jewish dietary laws should be followed.

--- I read about a Christian girl who did not appear in her school final exam on Saturday & there was a special arrangement for her to attend the exam next day. So , i guess , some Christians do observe Sabbath. Is there any prohibition in Bible that they can't do it ?

if Christians start celebrating all the jewish holy days & follow dietary laws , then Jews may object ????? yak.....stupid question may be

Catholic will tell you they don't eat meat on Fridays

--why??

**Grace Seeker** · 03-09-2007

Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

--- I read about a Christian girl who did not appear in her school final exam on Saturday & there was a special arrangement for her to attend the exam next day. So , i guess , some Christians do observe Sabbath. Is there any prohibition in Bible that they can't do it ?

No. There is no prohibition regarding what day Christians can and cannot worship. Now there are some Christian groups which would disagree with that statement, the 7th Day Adventist comes to mind; they believe that worship should be on the Saturday Sabbath -- other days would be permissable as one cannot worship God too much, but it is required on the Sabbath day. They hold that the same regulations given to the Jews still apply to Christians today.

if Christians start celebrating all the jewish holy days & follow dietary laws , then Jews may object ?????

How Jews would react is better asked of a Jew. They may not think it is necessary, but I can't see why they would object.

Catholic will tell you they don't eat meat on Fridays. Why?

There are Catholics that frequent this thread; I'll let them speak for themselves.

**Woodrow** · 03-09-2007

Being a former Catholic about 40 years ago. At one time it was required that Catholics observe a partial fast at least one day a week. That eventualy became a rule of no meat on Friday. In the 1960s that changed from being a Church obligation to a suggestion that it could be a method by which Catholics can observe a partial fast. It is not strictly limited to meat. Some Catholics will just have one light meal on Friday, often just a glass of water and a slice of bread.

In the 1960s it was realised that the individuals intent and desire to fast was more important than how they chose to fast.

**Talha777** · 03-09-2007

Being a former Catholic about 40 years ago. At one time it was required that Catholics observe a partial fast at least one day a week. That eventualy became a rule of no meat on Friday. In the 1960s that changed from being a Church obligation to a suggestion that it could be a method by which Catholics can observe a partial fast. It is not strictly limited to meat. Some Catholics will just have one light meal on Friday, often just a glass of water and a slice of bread.

In the 1960s it was realised that the individuals intent and desire to fast was more important than how they chose to fast.

This is why I can never become a Catholic. If God has made certain laws for us, who are we as human beings to question them and dare to "amend" them? At least when the mainstream Latter Day Saints church abrogated polygamy, they claimed it was by divine revelation to their prophetic head of the church. But when the Catholic Church convenes their Vatican councils, do they claim that it is because God has ordered them to do so, or is it because they need to update their manmade rules so as to keep their flock from leaving the church en masse? A religion that is more dedicated to maintaining the quantity of their adherents rather than sticking to divine principles no matter what the cost is a farce.

**Woodrow** · 03-09-2007

Originally Posted by Talha777

This is why I can never become a Catholic. If God has made certain laws for us, who are we as human beings to question them and dare to "amend" them? At least when the mainstream Latter Day Saints church abrogated polygamy, they claimed it was by divine revelation to their prophetic head of the church. But when the Catholic Church convenes their Vatican councils, do they claim that it is because God has ordered them to do so, or is it because they need to update their manmade rules so as to keep their flock from leaving the church en masse? A religion that is more dedicated to maintaining the quantity of their adherents rather than sticking to divine principles no matter what the cost is a farce.

Those are some of the reasons I left Catholochism a long time ago.

**paarsurrey** · 03-10-2007

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Mormons do call themselves Christian. And probably there are many non-Mormons who would consider them such, for they talk about Jesus using many of the same words that other Christian groups do.

Since I had been discussing with Christians on different forums, I have come to know of a litmus test to recognize a Christian from the Muslims.

The reality is that all Muslims whatever faith/sect believe that Jesus did not die and could not die on Cross, and the basis of their reasoning is Quran .Further all Muslims whatever the faith/sect believe that Jesus was not a cursed person and was a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH and his ranking as stated by Muhammad Khatamun Nabiyyeen and as recorded in Sahih Hadith is on second sky or the highest stated is on the fourth sky; not beyond that, our ProphetMessenger Muhammad saw this in his vision in which he saw all this and met many prophets in that vision. He even saw that Moses and Abraham were above the status of JesusYeshuaIssa, they were on sixth and seventh skies respectively. So there is no question of a Muslim believing that Jesus sat at the right hand of GodAllahYHWH and in fact assumed all power from GodAllahYHWH. So these two points should be thought of and affirmed by all Muslims.
On the other hand all the Christians whatever their faith/sect believes on the basis of their NTBible:
1. Jesus cursed death on Cross.
2. He got resurrected from the dead.
3. This was done for redemption of the Christians sins.
4. Jesus ascended to heaven and sat on right hand of God; by right hand they mean hand of power, Jesus assuming power of God.
Thus the whole edifice of Christianity is built on one thing “Jesus’ cursed death on Cross”.
During our discussions I pointed towards this natural litmus test of a Christian and a Muslim, to draw a clear line of discussion to which both sides agreed categorically, without a shadow of doubt.From the perspective of Islam, Mormons are Christians as they do fit in the above test as Christians.
I would therefore appeal to every Muslim, before indulging into any discussion with the Christians to chalk out a draft program taking care of on this understanding. Unless you break the backbone of the opponent and concentrate on that and remain focused on that one cannot open up their hearts and minds for the truth of Islam. This has to be realized.
Thanks