Ok ive been wondering about this for quite some time.
So we all know that there were religouns (from God) before Islam.
My question is, what will happen to the people who followed Christianity and Judaism, before Islam? Will they be judged based on their religoun? Like the Jews will be judged based on judaism, then when christianity came, and some people converted, they will be judged based on Christianity?
I know thats kinda confusing, bas i dunno how else to word the question.
Oh and i hope that this hasn't been posted before. I tries serching for "Before Islam" and it gave me every thread that has the word before or islam in it
All the religions of the Prophets was Islam (submission to Allah.) That's why the different Prophets might have different social laws, but the main message was the same of monotheism - don't worship anyone except God, they told their people to do good and turn away from evil, they warned them of the Day of Judgment when we would all return to Allah and be judged on all that we did - then those who denied the message and became arrogant would be punished for their disbelief and evil, whereas those who believed in the meeting with their Lord and did good will be rewarded for that.
All the Prophets warned of this, there were 124,000 Prophets and around 300 Messengers. A Messenger usually comes with a newer law, whereas a Prophet might only continue with a law revealed to a previous Messenger.
None of the Prophets said that they follow another religion, and the titles given to other religions only came after peoples names, or tribe names. No Prophet ever named their religion after anyone, they all submitted themselves to Allah wholeheartedly and therefore were Muslims (someone who submits to Allah.)
The people who believed, obeyed and followed their Prophet will be rewarded in Paradise by Allah. After Allah's final servant and Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) received the message - everyone, from no matter what tribe or race has to accept him in order to be a Muslim and gain the pleasure of Allah and enter His paradise.
so according to you jesus was a muslim....i find that very difficult , in fact impossible to believe..however you are free to believe whatever you choose..
so according to you jesus was a muslim....i find that very difficult , in fact impossible to believe..however you are free to believe whatever you choose..
Yeh, especially since Jesus son of Mary called to the worship of God and never told people to worship him, he never called himself God either.
So since there were Prophets and Messengers before him who were humans, it wouldn't be surprising if he was an honorable human Messenger calling to the worship and obedience of God aswell.
I have to respectfully disagree..based on not only my scripture, but jewish scripture which supports christian scripture...jesus was emmanual.."god with us"..and jesus did infact state that he and the father were one..and told his disciples that when they look upon him they look upon the father..I know I know..I yield to civility and choose to agree to disagree..have a good life..peace to you
All the religions of the Prophets was Islam (submission to Allah.) That's why the different Prophets might have different social laws, but the main message was the same of monotheism - don't worship anyone except God, they told their people to do good and turn away from evil, they warned them of the Day of Judgment when we would all return to Allah and be judged on all that we did - then those who denied the message and became arrogant would be punished for their disbelief and evil, whereas those who believed in the meeting with their Lord and did good will be rewarded for that.
All the Prophets warned of this, there were 124,000 Prophets and around 300 Messengers. A Messenger usually comes with a newer law, whereas a Prophet might only continue with a law revealed to a previous Messenger.
None of the Prophets said that they follow another religion, and the titles given to other religions only came after peoples names, or tribe names. No Prophet ever named their religion after anyone, they all submitted themselves to Allah wholeheartedly and therefore were Muslims (someone who submits to Allah.)
The people who believed, obeyed and followed their Prophet will be rewarded in Paradise by Allah. After Allah's final servant and Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) received the message - everyone, from no matter what tribe or race has to accept him in order to be a Muslim and gain the pleasure of Allah and enter His paradise.
Oh wow, i honestly had no idea. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
So basically what you saying is that there was never "Judaism" and "christianity" from God, it was always Islam?
Thanks for the links, reading them now
Thats absolutely right. Remember, a muslim is just someone who attains peace with himself and others by submitting to the one and only God. This is how God wanted His creations: human beings, to be since the beginning of our existence.
The people who believed, obeyed and followed their Prophet will be rewarded in Paradise by Allah. After Allah's final servant and Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) received the message - everyone, from no matter what tribe or race has to accept him in order to be a Muslim and gain the pleasure of Allah and enter His paradise.
Why the change with Muhammad (pbuh)? While having new prophets might be of value for rearticulating the message, for renewed emphasis and reminder, and for spreading the message to more and more people, if one was still following the commands of the previous prophets, then wouldn't that be enough? Why would one have to recognize Muhammad now?
And if so many 100+ thousand prophets were needed in a few thousand years time, why only 1 prophet for all of the rest of time?
:sunny:I do understand your reasoning here...however why then were they not referred to as muslims and when and how did the term muslim originate..why is moses and abraham not refered to as muslims in any other religious writings..and why does the quran itself refer to christians and jews as people of the book..dont mind me..I am just rambling..thinking out loud and two finger typing at the same time...
Why the change with Muhammad (pbuh)? While having new prophets might be of value for rearticulating the message, for renewed emphasis and reminder, and for spreading the message to more and more people, if one was still following the commands of the previous prophets, then wouldn't that be enough? Why would one have to recognize Muhammad now?
And if so many 100+ thousand prophets were needed in a few thousand years time, why only 1 prophet for all of the rest of time?
Because, Muhammad [saw] was the final prophet. Sent by God to help mankind. Kind of like the last chance humanity will get - The final Prophet had the completely unaltered words of God (i.e the Quran) - of course the previous prophets had this, but their message was corrupted. So basically, God gave us one last chance. Amazingly, we still screwed it up.
format_quote Originally Posted by chosen
:sunny:I do understand your reasoning here...however why then were they not referred to as muslims and when and how did the term muslim originate..
What the final Prophet taught was Islam. The term 'muslims' and 'Islam' were not around when christianity first kicked off.
why is moses and abraham not refered to as muslims in any other religious writings
Because at that time the word muslim or Islam as we know it today did not exist. It'd be like calling weird people kleeborps - but you won't know what a kleeborp is as kleeborps are from the future.
..and why does the quran itself refer to christians and jews as people of the book..dont mind me..I am just rambling..thinking out loud and two finger typing at the same time...
Because they are people of the book. The religious texts of both christians and jews came from the same source: God (muslims call Him Allah) However, since other humans came into contact with the religious texts, they were corrupted and changed (ever heard of the new testoment?) One of the core beliefs in Islam is that the Quran has remained unchanged since it's revelation all those years back (1400 or so)
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Still i haven't found one single proof of existence of islam before Muhammed's times.
Prophet Isa (commonly known as Jesus), Prophet Musa (moses), Prophet Ibrahim (abraham), Prophet Nuh (noah) all preached the same thing: Peace and justice amongst all and submission to God.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Prophet Isa (commonly known as Jesus), Prophet Musa (moses), Prophet Ibrahim (abraham), Prophet Nuh (noah) all preached the same thing: Peace and justice amongst all and submission to God.
So you say that in Arabia there was islam and were muslims before times of Muhammed?
And how is it possible that people before Muhammed times havent noticed islam? Pagans, Romans, Greeks, Philistines, Persians did notice Jews and judaism (see loads of historical textes, writings, merchant papers etc). Romans A.D did notice existence of christianity (books of Tacitus, Joseph Flavius) but somehow they didnt notice the other monotheistic faith which called to submission to one God.
For me it is so hard to understand.I think that proving to non muslims the existence of islam and muslims before Muhammad times is no easier than explaining the Trinity to muslims.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
So you say that in Arabia there was islam and were muslims before times of Muhammed?
THey were not called muslims and their religion was not called Islam. What they were initially practicing, however, were what we now call Islamic teachings (though when Islam came to the people there were more teachings added)
And how is it possible that people before Muhammed times havent noticed islam? Pagans, Romans, Greeks, Philistines, Persians did notice Jews and judaism (see loads of historical textes, writings, merchant papers etc). Romans A.D did notice existence of christianity (books of Tacitus, Joseph Flavius) but somehow they didnt notice the other monotheistic faith which called to submission to one God.
The message had been corrupted by then. Christianity came with Prophet Isa (Jesus) but after he died it became corrupted and split into the Trinity concept. Same thing happened with Judaism and is also happening with Islam (shi'a and sunnis for example)
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
OK and how is it possible that Jews didnt notice the existence of the other monotheistic faith among (or near) them? Or you claim that ancient Jews were muslims? But if so, so why they observed jewish festivals like Hanuka or Shabat? How you can explain the ancient long tradition and history of the Jews.
If jewish rabbis could notice existence of Jesus' sect, so how is it possible that they didnt notice the existence of non-judaism monotheistic teachings among them during the thousand years of their tradition?
And if ancient Jews were muslims so who are Jews ?
Im sorry, but it still makes no sense to me.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
Well, I understand the concept of all believers were "Muslims". It doesn't mean there were people running around calling themselves Muslims in ancient times or even during the Roman Empire. It simply means that all people who worshipped the God of Abraham were Muslim, even if they didn't call themselves that. Would Moses have called himself a Muslim? Of course not, as the word didn't exist.
Just explaining that I understand the concept.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Well, I understand the concept of all believers were "Muslims". It doesn't mean there were people running around calling themselves Muslims in ancient times or even during the Roman Empire. It simply means that all people who worshipped the God of Abraham were Muslim, even if they didn't call themselves that. Would Moses have called himself a Muslim? Of course not, as the word didn't exist.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
It simply means that all people who worshipped the God of Abraham were Muslim, even if they didn't call themselves that. .
So ancient Jews were muslims? All or just some of Jews were muslims? And if this is true, so what is judaism, and when it appeared? If Jews were muslims so what were doing Jews in pre-islamic Arabia? Does it mean that Jews and muslims (Jews?) were living together in pre-islamic Arabia and other parts of the world?
Im sorry but muslims' explanation in this topic is like this- "It's true, because we believe in it. And our belief is true."
Last edited by Amadeus85; 11-28-2007 at 03:40 PM.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
There is a common difficulty for non-Muslims trying to understand this concept. The confusion seems to be down to two similar but importantly different uses of the word 'Islam'.
There should be a distinction made between 'submission to god, in accordance with the teachings now known as Islam' and 'the religious institution of those teachings, which began with Muhammad (pbuh)'. To say that 'Islam' existed before Muhammad (pbuh) is potentially confusing (and even slightly disingenuous), since Islam as the institutionalised world religion that it is now could only exist because of him.
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Does it mean that Jews and muslims (Jews?) were living together in pre-islamic Arabia and other parts of the world?
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