Thank you for your respect...
Printable View
Greetings renak,
You might be happy to hear that we actually have a few articles or discussions on the verses you quoted, so they should help to further clarify for you:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...erse-34-a.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/marriage...e-beating.html
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#19Quote:
Surah 5:51 - Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ariah-law.htmlQuote:
Surah 5:38 - Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...rgiveness.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ent-islam.htmlQuote:
Surah 24:2 - Adultery is punished by public flogging
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...-violence.htmlQuote:
Surah 5:33 - Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#17
Islam and Apostasy
Note that Islam is a complete way of life, and therefore no part of it is impractical or hard to practice as it is a revelation from God. It is not permitted to only follow part of the Book and leave off what we don't like, as this is an action for which previous nations were rebuked in the Qur'an:Quote:
Of course I could post many more quotes from the Quran and Bible. This is why I am asserting that Muslims and Christians follow only part of the rules in their holy books.
[2.85] ... Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? What then is the reward of such among you as do this but disgrace in the life of this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be sent back to the most grievous chastisement, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.
I hope that has been helpful,
Peace.
Woah a heated discussion going on here... But some good references nevertheless! [BANANA]Jazakallah![/BANANA]
Except Jews and Muslims hate pigs whereas Indians love cows (and northern Westerners have a memory of horse-worship and so do not eat, and love, them too).
It is more likely that the prohibition is a way of distinguishing between nomads and farmers. Jews presumably were nomadic at one point - Hebrew may come from a term related to nomad. Pigs are necessary, or at least highly important, as part of any long-term agricultural system of production. But pigs cannot be herded like sheep, they need constant water supplies because they do not sweat and so can't be kept in the desert and so are useless to nomads. As any nomad will tell you nomads have all the honor, farmers have none. So by not eating pork, they are showing they are the real aristocrats. Arabs took up this prohibition which is entirely in keeping with bedouin culture while Christians, when they started to convert non-nomadic Western farmers, did not.
By perhaps a total coincidence Islam also does not like dogs. While near-by in Iran the Zoroastrians did. Again a prohibition drives a wedge between the two communities.
Except there is still the difference that the cow and the horse in India and northern Europe are respected. The pig is not.
Quote:
I heard that the prohibition of pig came from Egypt, where the opposition between nomadic and sedentary population does not exist.
And there has always been some tension between nomads and sedentary people in Egypt. This is why the guarded Sinai so carefully.Quote:
Pigs in Ancient Egypt
by Marie Parsons
There is some divided speculation about the existence and usage of pigs in ancient Egypt. Was the Set-animal a pig, and therefore was the creature considered taboo since Set was thought to be an "evil" god? Was the pig connected with trichinosis and therefore thought unfit to eat? Was it simply considered unclean because of its particular habits? Did it exist at all in Egypt?
It is very unlikely that the ancients knew of any connection between trichinosis and eating undercooked pork. There is no evidence they had any taboo against more toxic materials or that they even knew of the existence of such dangers. Pigs were herded, raised, and occasionally eaten, throughout Egypt from the Predynastic period into the Late Period and Graeco-Roman times.
The local breed of domestic pig in ancient Egypt descended from an indigenous ancestor, sus scrofa, the Wild Boar. It was once abundant in the country and had a fairly extensive range throughout the Nile Valley, in the Delta, the Faiyum and the Wadi Natrun. The species only became locally extinct around the turn of the 20th century ACE, due to over-hunting and loss of its prime habitat.
The oldest domestic pig remains presently known in Egypt come from the large Predynastic settlement site of Merimda Beni Salama in the western Delta, dated to the fifth millennium BCE. Pig remains have been found throughout Egypt at sites such as Hierakonpolis, Maadi, Abydos, and Armant, near graves belonging to the poorer classes, indicating that pork was an element in their diet, at least at the Predynastic period. Cattle bones were found in graves belonging to more elite burials.
If there was a prohibition against eating pigs among the upper classes, there was none against raising them. In the early Fourth Dynasty tomb-chapel of Metjen at Saqqara, the deceased states that he received a bequest from his father that included "people, small livestock and pigs." The Eleventh Dynasty tomb of the nomarch Khety at Beni Hasan depicts a herd of pigs, the first in Egyptian art since the First Dynasty. Yet, while pig-farming continued on during the Old and Middle Kingdom periods, swine are conspicuously absent from the scenes of daily life that cover the walls of tomb-chapels of the upper classes and do not appear in the somewhat extensive offering lists. The explanation may be as simple as the fact that pigs are associated with grubbing in the dirt and rolling in the muck, perhaps considered unclean activities.
Pig-farming expanded during the New Kingdom. Inscriptions indicate that temples and wealthy citizens maintained large numbers of them on their country estates, and tomb-chapels of several nobles from the early 18th dynasty illustrate swine as well as other farmyard animals. The mayor of el-Kab relates that he owned a herd of fifteen hundred pigs. A temple of Amenhotep III at Memphis was endowed with some 1000 pigs and 1000 piglets, and the mortuary temple of Seti I at Abydos held large herds of swine on its domains.
Pigs are also shown in use for farming itself, as they tread seed into the soil, even into the time of Herodotus. Inscriptions on ostraca and other findings indicate that the workers at Deir el-Medina occasionally indulged in meals of pork.
So pigs were bred, raised and occasionally eaten in different places. What of the religious connection? Votive faience pig figurines dating to the first dynasty have been recovered Pigs in Ancient Egyptfrom Abydos, Hierakonpolis, and Elephantine Island. The figurines from Abydos were found by Petrie inside what he considered to be the sacred compound of the god Osiris.
The Egyptian Museum in Berlin also holds a ceramic statue, dated to the Naqada I period, of what has been called a pig deity, indicating at least that swine formed a part of religious life at this time. The Brooklyn Museum also possesses a cylinder seal dated to the First Dynasty that displays figures of bristling pigs carved on it, and other seals from this period also depict pigs.
According to some traditions, the god Min, most associated with the city of Coptos in Upper Egypt, was born of a white sow. In a charm against snake bite, he is described as son "of the white sow of Heliopolis/Iunu" which is a form of the goddess Isis.
Pigs in Ancient EgyptThe god Set appears as a pig with erect bristles in the Annals of King Sahure of the fifth Dynasty on the Palermo Stone. The passage is translated in Marshall Clagett’s volume as follows: …"The first occurrence of going to the South and Inventorying the House of Horus-Set." The accompanying note indicates that this is not a certain rendering, since instead of a falcon-sign for Horus, there is an owl, and the sign for Set is presumably a pig, though it also resembles an anteater. If the translation does refer to a House of Horus-Set, perhaps at this time Set was not considered "evil."
Beginning in the Third Intermediate Period, statuettes and amulets of a rooting sow nursing her litter were popular, representing the sky goddess Nut. Conversely, spells in the Coffin Texts and in the Book of Going Forth By Day (Book of the Dead) show Set turning himself into a boar, leading some scholars to speculate that the pig’s connection with "evil" forms the true basis of its small use in food consumption and temple offerings.
The god Set, associated with the pig in iconography, was by the Late Period and the Hellenistic age in Egypt to be the "evil" murderer of the god Osiris, and the adversary of the god Horus. Yet, Seti I had been perhaps a priest of Set—certainly his name meant "Man of Set," and he was not considered an evil king. Set also continued to be worshiped at Ombos and Tanis and other locations.
Pigs in Ancient EgyptThe question as to whether or not the pig was taboo becomes murkier perhaps when it is considered that the animal played a part in medicine. The Ebers Papyrus lists humor of "pig’s eyes" to be injected into the ear to cure blindness. Another prescription for the eyes included the blood of pigs. Pig’s tooth and other ingredients were crushed and bandaged onto infected parts of the body to expel exudations, perhaps a reference to pus or eczema. Pig’s viscera, including the brain, was an ingredient in another cure to combat a form of cancer.
As in today’s western culture, where "Pork" is getting a face-lift being called "the second white meat" in order to boost its consumption, perhaps more study of the place of the pig in ancient Egyptian society will uncover new information.
Sources:
* Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt
* Animals in Ancient Egypt by Patrick Houlihan
* Dictionary of Ancient Egyptian Gods and Goddesses by George Hart
* Ancient Egyptian Science, Vol I, by Marshall Clagett
* Food: the Gift of Osiris by William J. Darby, Paul Ghalioungui and Louis Grivetti
As the sister said, how so? Unlike pigs, nomads need dogs.Quote:
I also noticed that the muslim dislike of dogs could be related to the pig.
Muslims are not to eat swine as it is stated within the quran as anunclean animal. its dislike is what has developed over a period of time i guess...
However a dog is not disliked the dog its self is mentioned within the quran many times but not as unclean animal..
the dog itself is not unclean it is its spit that is to be stayed away from...
Sister I think that u have copy pasted this answer from dr. Zakir Naik's IRF site. I will request any honourable member if he can clarify how come that Dr. Naik knows that pig invites his friends to have sex with his mates???????? Naturally it is supposed to be true coz such a great scholer of islam cant speak lies after starting with Bismillah, but I want any proof of his particular statement. if anyone can provide.
Thanks.
Oh I don't know. Chickens are pretty good scavengers too. Even better than pigs actually.
Has anyone who writes this tripe actually seen a male pig? I assure you there is precisely no chance they will ever invite another male pig to have sex with their sows. Pigs are usually kept in small groups with one male only for a very good reason. In the wild boars have tusks. These are useful for digging but their main use is to rip the guts out of other male pigs. Boars can kill horses and have done so when hunted by humans. They have killed Kings and peasants alike. They do not tolerate even the presence of another male asult pig in the vicinity.Quote:
6. Pig is the most shameless animal
The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. We Indians look upon America to be very advanced and sophisticated. Whatever they do, we follow after a few years. According to an article in Island magazine, this practice of swapping wives has become common in the affluent circles of Bombay.
You cannot give such justifications as to why Allah has forbidden the pork. Has Allah made us known anywhere that the reasons you have outlined were taken into consideration by Him in forbidding pork for humans? Obviously not. Then is it not transgressing the limit set by Allah ? You have given justification as if revelation was made by Allah to that effect. But actually, there is none; all you have delineated is your own composition, but aired as Allah's reason. Had I wrongly done such an act of transgression, I would have repented, cried and sought Allah's forgiveness, as Allah says:
2:79 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby."
:sl:
You cannot give such justifications as to why Allah has forbidden the pork. Has Allah made us known anywhere that the reasons you have outlined were taken into consideration by Him in forbidding pork for humans? Obviously not. Then is it not transgressing the limit set by Allah ? You have given justification as if revelation was made by Allah to that effect. But actually, there is none; all you have delineated is your own composition, but aired as Allah's reason. Had I wrongly done such an act of transgression, I would have repented, cried and sought Allah's forgiveness, as Allah says:
2:79 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby."
heh
i aint read the debate but jus thot i'd mention,
even if pork wasnt forbidden i wouldnt eat an animal that chews on secretion, rolls on mud and lives in a completely foul way.
and neway the scientific flaws of eatin pork hav been stated so wat more is needed
:sl:
speakin ma mind ;D
I have to agree with you here in that the justifications are personal opinions of the writer of the story, but spread as reasons of God's prohibition as if God has given such reason in any revelation.Quote:
Of course all the "medical" reasons look more like excuses for muslims who seem to be ill at ease with a prohibition they do not understand. Pork eating Westerners are among the longest living and healthiest people on earth.
Such man-made explanations are actually tantamount to interference in the realm of God with regard to what He has not made known to the humans. A believer cannot invent any whimsical justification in the name of science as to why Allah has given some order, whie Allah has not made the reasons known through any revelation or through his prohhet, and as such, this is like claiming to have known which Allah has kept unknown and clear transgression of the limit set by Allah for believing people. Spreading such invented explanations as (undisclosed) reasons for Allah's ordainment is but lies attributed to Him. This type of over invention has already caused much corruption in Islam and spread various innovations some of which are like associating partners with Allah, Who says in this regard:
4:48 "God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with God is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed."
6:82 "It is those who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong - that are (truly) in security, for they are on (right) guidance."
The right answer in such cases is: "And they( the believers) say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."[2:285]
I do agree to a point the flesh of swine is prohibted by god not on the grounds that it is unhealthy that is human thought , its a divine law and muslims live by it the question if it were to be put is is that exactly what the verse means...and yes the verse is quote clear so that would be the end of it... question what the verses mean is not prohibted but to make up asumptions as to why such a thing existed and present it as though it is a reason from god is...
Great Post!!! Good Post sister
Wasallam
"There are many signs in the heavens and the earth which they pass by; yet they pay no attention to them! [12:105] As a result most of them who believe in Allah also commit shirk. [12:106] "
Wasalaam Brothers and sisters,
I dont think any one brought up this point,so I will:
When Iesa(A.S) casted demons out of people, what animal did he send them into?
In the bible,when Iesa(A.S) asked the names of the demons, they replied "legion, for which we are many." What animal was speaking to Iesa(A.S)?
The pig is evil. This is why Iesa(A.S) and his original followers never ate the flesh of pigs.(that and they were Jews who kept Kosher,went to Temple,circumsion,ect) Only when Saul(who claimed in some crazy vision to have seen Jesus(pbuh) comes along, does he now claim that it is ok to eat the flesh of pigs.Remember, Iesa(A.S) came to confirm the Taurat, not destroy it And part of keeping the Taurat meant KEEPING KOSHER!!!!!!!
Saul pretty much disregarded all of what the Prophet Iesa(A.S) had revealed and essentially, started his own religion. This is why people of "The Way"(i.e Christians) worship the Prophet Iesa(A.S) as God(swt) insted of The Creator of All Living Things(swt)And also why the bible is contradictiary and full of errors. Had the "People of The Way" been following Iesa(A.S) and his orginal followers insted of Saul,they'd all be devout Jews.
"The Way" have spiraled out of control through out history and this is the what they are left with today. They have become the very thing Iesa(A.S) was so vehemently against,idolizers and idolization. Dont believe so? Take a walk through the Catholic church.
"All Praise Be To Allaah"
The point is ..if you eat pig...you behave like a pig. pig is the only animal that goes around and has sex with th rest of the sow(female pig)...or in other words switches his girlfriend every night...the kind of society we see today in america and europe. and people have gone to pig farms to see exactly what they do..and i personally know a scholar who went there once...its not something wrong..if you wanna confront the pig eaters..u need to examine everything...this answers the doubts of justahumane