To muslims are atheists worse than other theists? (OP)
This is not meant to start bickering... so please ignore any trolls that try to take it that way (there's really only one I'd expect to do so).
What I want to know is how muslims in general feel about atheists. Are we seen merely as lost souls, ignorant of the truth, or are we seen as agents of Shaytan (sp?) and more of a threat to the true faith than any false religion could be?
I ask because I have noticed that here as well as elsewhere on the internet the muslims and christians and jews will argue with each other, even bicker from time to time but when dealing with the atheist it seems to be a whole other level of it. Are the atheists just more provocative or is there something about them not believing that itself troubles folks?
I've also met some devout christians who appear to be threatened or offended simply by learning I'm an atheist, without me saying anything more than that (or them finding out I'm an atheist from a third person). One of them refused to talk to me for weeks after learning I'm a heathen... which was just very strange because she was quite a nice and sweet lady otherwise. The fangs only came out after learning this.
I have not met many muslims in my real life (they simply aren't as prevalent here) so I'm wondering if the same phenomenon exists with them. Given that I say nothing against their faith, only that I'm atheist, would they regard me same as a christian or jew or would they have a special concern about me beyond that?
Fellow atheists and agnostics are welcome to opine on this as well (as well as all others here) but again I ask that this not be turned into a war zone as too often threads re atheism seem to.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
It's pretty sad that you can't conceive of a meaningful existence without these things.
well you can enjoy your ETERNAL LIFE after this unbelievably short life... your choice Heavan or HELL :mad: ... like people say "Life is short" of course they say that so you can go to like a hotel or something..hehe
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
well you can enjoy your ETERNAL LIFE after this unbelievably short life...
Assuming it exists.
your choice Heavan or HELL :mad:
Assuming they exist.
... like people say "Life is short" of course they say that so you can go to like a hotel or something..hehe
Yes. The only reason atheists deny the concept of eternal life is because we want to commit adultery.
For that matter, this is also the reason why ancient Babylonians, Jews, and various animists didn't believe in eternal life either, before the concept was invented by some cult leader who couldn't bother to promise his followers a reward he could provide them in real life.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
do you know how funny athiests sound...no offence... no sins, no heavan, no hell, no punishments, no rewards, no god... what is there???
On the other hand, you’ve bought into a fantastical world of spirits, spooks, ancient books of dubious authorship, fear, loathing and trembling before an angry deity.
In any event, it tells me for some, their belief in their system is so weak, their god is so impotent, he needs threats and coercion to convince people of his "truths". If your religion can withstand criticism, then you should be happy about it. If it can't, then of what good is it? Most importantly, stop worrying about those who choose not to embrace your religious belief. You just worry about why it is that your religion has degenerated into a prescription for many to commit mass murder.
By and large, the ethical foundations (or lack thereof) within “holy texts” have long been surpassed by human society, which finally turned away from the theistic precepts of existence around 100 years ago. Note that since humans turned to science, disease has declined, education has increased (for most people), and technology has become astounding. This doesn't mean science is always right and has all the answers, but at any time you need to understand the technology that powers this message board, you have a choice: clutch the Koran and find the answers there, or go to your kafir innovated PC, running kafir Microsoft windows over the kafir innovated and maintained internet. I think we all know which one you'll choose.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
its too sick tho...oh and there was something in the news showing a guy who is only 18 and he died, (he listened to music, never prayed, etc), then after only 3 hours his parent wanted to know what he died from, so the people went and unburied him, (when they buried him he was perfectly normal) and then when they unburied him, his eyes were all messed up and sick, same with his mouth and nose and his entire body was BLACK and smoking... staghfirallah al atheem... :scared:
Wow, what a crock. You will believe most anything, won't you.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
yeah? and what if when "death" comes then allah will punish you and you regret it and its too late??
btw thats not life or a religion, thats what little kids think life is... no offence
Correct - atheism is not a religion. I'm glad the message has got through somehow. Tell all your friends!
When I die, if it turns out that hell exists I'll gladly suffer eternal punishment. I can say that with confidence because the whole idea of hell strikes me as being patently absurd.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
Cz, why must a religion have a dogma, a heaven or hell, a church,candles, a symbol, a big central vatican or kaaba or even fixed scriptures?
I dont find that particually neccessery at all.
Not to streach the point, because it's a minor one really, but your religion is the relationship you have with a creator.
Weather that be worshiping a creator you think your in touch with, Looking for a creator in all the usual places and drawing blanks then continuing the search, or denying the existance of a creator completly. Thats your religion.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Not only patently absurd, but cruel and unusual, and any God who would resort to it I could not bring myself to like or follow anyway.
How can you worship a God who threatens you?
God stopped threatening people quite so much, as mankind develops.
Look at the oldest religions...its all stick.
Look at the later ones...More and more carrot, the amount of stick is the same, but it's talked about less.
To fire up a new religion , it's gotta have incentives, Gardens, flowing waters, Virgins, beer, free public transport, decent insurance policys.
But what is a religion if it dosnt have the stick. The repetetive, cyclic chanting in scripture of the Fire, with supernatural heat.
There was a spoof in Viz comic a few months back. A nun had decided to worship Mars instead of Jesus and was asking her freind's advice.
Her freind said "Imagine a steel ball bigger than the sun, that is brushed by a butterflys wing, just once every 10000 years, when that steel ball is completely worn away, your torment will have only just begun"
Fantastic!
Carrot and Stick....Evrytime.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
Its thoughts like this that make me see similarities between god worshipers and abused children. Obedience out of of fear and dependance, and "respect and love" growing from it.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
Yeah, I was talking to my Mum, who's born again baptist, about theology and everything was ok until I said I did not FEAR god. At which point she turned pale and said "Oh no..ohno...you mustnt say that...."
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by Resigned
On the other hand, you’ve bought into a fantastical world of spirits, spooks, ancient books of dubious authorship, fear, loathing and trembling before an angry deity.
In any event, it tells me for some, their belief in their system is so weak, their god is so impotent, he needs threats and coercion to convince people of his "truths". If your religion can withstand criticism, then you should be happy about it. If it can't, then of what good is it? Most importantly, stop worrying about those who choose not to embrace your religious belief. You just worry about why it is that your religion has degenerated into a prescription for many to commit mass murder.
By and large, the ethical foundations (or lack thereof) within “holy texts” have long been surpassed by human society, which finally turned away from the theistic precepts of existence around 100 years ago. Note that since humans turned to science, disease has declined, education has increased (for most people), and technology has become astounding. This doesn't mean science is always right and has all the answers, but at any time you need to understand the technology that powers this message board, you have a choice: clutch the Koran and find the answers there, or go to your kafir innovated PC, running kafir Microsoft windows over the kafir innovated and maintained internet. I think we all know which one you'll choose.
Did you know science owes its entire existance to the muslims, off course you dont!!! LOL
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by Skavau
Christians claim Christianity is rational. Jews claim Judaism is rational. Hindus claim likewise.
Most people think their belief is rational.
You used the fallacy.
Given your premises for what the jews, christians, say to make their claims rational. See what I mean about u guys jumping to conclusions and making the most irrational claims in the nonsense market? I still havent changed my mind about u guys, sorry about your feelings towards this claim, but it is the truth.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by Skavau
I know that 'Irreducible Complexity' is a laughable term thrown around by Creationists.
Moreover, what is sick about evolution?
Why is it laughable? Its sick, becuase you belive in a concept called survival of the fittest, weak should be elimited, there is no such thing as justice. No wonder why many people wont object to many invasions that are happening.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by kay106
See what i mean about nonsense from u guys? You guys simply want to believe what ever u want to believe!
There’s nothing nonsensical about asking hard questions, demanding rationality and reason and coming to a considered choice about spiritual questions. At least for me, it's not something to just roll over and believe because if you truly dig deep into what allows you to believe, you will find there is no clear reason to believe as you do—and again, at least for me – none of the differing religious claims makes a case that rises above the others. In other words, there is no reason to believe Christianity over Islam over Judaism over Hinduism.
Answer honestly please; is it absolute certainty in faith that results in places such as the KSA being 100% muslim or is it the social and political constructs that require a particular faith? Are people in such places such as Iran, Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, etc., etc., nearly 100% muslim because of some overriding truth in islam or is it because of the same social and political constructs that prohibit or discriminate competing faiths?
People chose what their theistic beliefs are for many reasons, but rarely do they apply very hard standards to those reasons. They tend to be cultural (i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another), -- or in the case of Islamic majority nations, a society that demands a particular faith, or anecdotal (you believe in certain events that for you define a specific belief, like a Hindu may have examples of "reincarnation" whereas a Catholic will "see visions of Mary", etc.), or there is simply a resonance in the belief system you select. And of course, I'll even include the possibility (but not probability) that one selects a belief because they actually do hear directly from one of the many claimed Supreme Beings.
But none of them make the absolute case of authority -- hence, I select the default position of atheism until such time as there is a clear defining reason to select one over the other.
But the struggle over the spiritual questions -- in fact, pondering all great mysteries -- is the real thing that sets us above the animals. Perhaps in the end, sentient life is the universe's way of trying to understand itself. But I consider that a noble struggle, and don't diminish it in any way. I applaud it and it makes me feel good about the human condition. And hell, what is more courageous than saying, "I want to know the truth?" (wherever it leads).
U guys have no sense!
Some genuine honesty and introspection on your part would be valuable.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
Survival of the fittest is an established , measurable fact. Is it harsh..Sure..its nature and nature is harsh. Is Nature harsher than God?
Well, at least nature is neutral. God wants people to burn and be tortured and plagued.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
Survival of the fittest is an established , measurable fact. Is it harsh..Sure..its nature and nature is harsh. Is Nature harsher than God?
Well, at least nature is neutral. God wants people to burn and be tortured and plagued.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by kay106
Why is it laughable? Its sick, becuase you belive in a concept called survival of the fittest,
You don't believe in survival of the fittest?
So you believe that nonprofitable corporations are just as likely to survive as profitable ones? Or that a tiny lobster has just as much of a chance to win a fight against a giant lobster?
Survival of the fittest is a factual description of what happens in the world. It's not a moral precept.
weak should be elimited,
Really? I wasn't aware any atheists on this board held this belief. Can you please support your absurd accusation?
there is no such thing as justice.
Of course I believe in justice. I'm sure even the so-called nihlist atheists on this board believe in justice, at minumum as a legal concept.
We don't believe that there's an invisible spirit who will punish people we don't like after they die, but I don't see why this is "sick."
No wonder why many people wont object to many invasions that are happening.
What invasions are you referring to? Iraq? Every atheist I know is opposed to the Iraq War. Nonreligious people overwhelmingly supported Gore and Kerry over Bush and his neocon cronies.
If you're going to make claims like these, either support them or have the intellectual courage to admit you're wrong.
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