To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?

format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard

I find christians have more of a problem with atheists than muslims though I will conceed that there is a bias there because the majority of atheists in this part of the world are former christians (myself included).

You will also find that some of us feel that your are approaching the truth as you have shed false beliefs.

In general, there does seem to be misconceptions about atheists such as atheism being an ideology/religon onto itself, atheists being ignorant of X's religion, atheists having no moral system etc.

These critisizims may be true with some atheists, but not all.

That appears to be true. Nearly every person I know has expressed similar words.

Atheism can be either a negative or a positive. Either you dont see evidence of God (negative), or you believe there is absolutely no God (positive).

With the former, the burden of proof ison the believer while on the latter the burden of proof is on the (Strong) Atheist. I personally am a Weak atheist.

Either way it provides a very solid invisible wall that is difficult for a Diest to reach into, Or for an atheist to climb out of.

Despite being an atheist, I also enjoy reading religious material. Im a bit of a amature scholar when it comes to NT materials and always find it amusing when a christian tries to convert me citing the bible

I can empathize with that. I have felt the same thing from people of other faiths when they learn I am Muslim.

I also know quite a bit of some of the 'dead' religions and in specific, Greek/Roman and Nordic mythology.

Im working on my knowledge of the Islam and Hindu and know enough to hold my own if someone is trying to convert me some of the common arguements for conversion, but I still require more studies to be as proficient as I am with christianity

At least you have the willingness to study even if it is for the purpose of refutation. That is all a Muslim can ask you to do. The choice is always yours and as long as you make an informed choice, I can see no need to try to "make" you revert. the choice is yours, my interest is only to understand that it is your own personal choice and not based on false information.

Atheism itself holds no moral system, it is just a lack of belief in a deity(ies) but there are several ethical models with some common ones being Humanism, Utilitarianism, and Objectivism.

Me personally, I really am an "Evil Atheist" in that I am in the tiny minority that considers itself Nihilists.
That is I really do believe in 'nothing'

I know this is splitting hairs but isn't believing you are a Nihilist, a belief?

format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard

That is I really do believe in 'nothing'

FOR GOD's SAKE MAN, AT LEAST BELIEVE IN YER SELF...oh... wait

Just out of curiosity what led you away from Christianity oh:

I am sure many believe they are "Nihilists" but revertion to Islam is an "Event" and not a gradual Process in my opinion, hence to me all are agnostics.

enjoy your studies

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum

Ya, Agnostics rock.

of course!

It depends actually,

if the atheists are trying to learn and respect other religion for me they are okay.

But if they are being ignorant and hate religion than that is something which i think are dangerous people.

and these go to the agnostics too.

format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid

FOR GOD's SAKE MAN, AT LEAST BELIEVE IN YER SELF...oh... wait

Just out of curiosity what led you away from Christianity oh:

I am sure many believe they are "Nihilists" but revertion to Islam is an "Event" and not a gradual Process in my opinion, hence to me all are agnostics.

enjoy your studies

I dunno, Nihilists tend to be in extreme even for skeptics

Seeing how by definition we believe all morality to be faulty constructs (secular included) as well any and all ideologies, I dont see how I as a nihilist would have enough common language with Islam to ever convert

PS. My bad, I didnt answer your question >.<

Alot of things didn't make internal logic in christianity. One thing led to another till I no longer considered myself christian. Hearing so many good things of other religions, I started to study in the hopes of finding one that I could adhere to with no personal conflict of reasoning. That didn't happen. I tried secular ideologies....same problem.

Im currently still looking, but doing this for several years now has left me pretty skeptical. You could ask why I continue to which I reply, "cause there's nothing else to do :-P"

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum

I totaly agree with the "respect" part but why do I have to be "trying to learn" to be OK?

it increases understanding and reduces ignorance.



I think both are HORRID (start recognising the one who gives you everything, to do otherwise is ingratitude at its greatest)

It dont matter if the theists accept a God, if its not Allaah, they still worship someone else, i feel sry for the sincere ones... but ALlah knows best


muslims are good

I have friends who are athiest, agnostic, hindu, sikh, muslim a few jewish and christian members (from LI now that I think about it). I get along with them all fine and never question what they believe in and neither do they question me.

Sure I may disagree with certain things (core beliefs etc) but to be honest, religion hardly ever comes into a conversation. The only time it did was when two of my non-religious friends asked me about Islam and prayer.

Are aetheists worse than theists? Heck, as long as we are getting along with each other and not at the point where we have to kill each other, who cares what the person sitting next to you believes (or doesn't believe) in?!

i remind the muslims of al-wala wal bara'

Imam Ahmad and at-Tirmidhi narrated from a hadith of Sahl ibn Mu'adh al-Juhani from his father that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said,
"Whoever gives for the sake of Allah and withholds for the sake of Allah, and loves for the sake of Allah and hates for the sake of Allah "

Imam Ahmad added,
"and gives in marriage for the sake of Allah, has completed and perfected his iman."

In a version of Imam Ahmad there is that,
"He asked the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, about the best [part] of iman and he said, 'That you love for the sake of Allah and hate for the sake of Allah and you exercise your tongue with the remembrance of Allah.' He asked, 'What else, Messenger of Allah?' He answered, "That you want for people what you want for yourself, and you dislike for them what you dislike for yourself.'"

In another version of his there is,
"and that you speak well or be quiet." In this hadith there is mentioned that a great deal of remembrance of Allah is one of the best parts of iman.

He also narrated the hadith of 'Amr ibn al-Jumuh that he heard the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, saying, "The slave is not fit for complete and pure iman until he loves for the sake of Allah and hates for the sake of Allah. When he loves for the sake of Allah and hates for the sake of Allah he has become worthy of friendship from Allah, exalted is He." He also narrated the hadith of al-Bara' ibn 'Azib, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The strongest handhold of iman is that you love for the sake of Allah and hate for the sake of Allah."

Ibn 'Abbas, may Allah be pleased with both of them, said, "Love for the sake of Allah and hate for the sake of Allah, take friends for the sake of Allah and make enemies for the sake of Allah, for you will only attain the friendship of Allah by that. The slave will never find the savour of iman, even if he does a great deal of prayer and fasting until he is like that. Most of the brotherhood [between] people has become because of something to do with the world, and that doesn't help His people at all." Ibn Jarir at-Tabari and Muhammad ibn Nasr al-Marwazi narrated it.

and it doesnt need to be said just how much Allaah hates shirk and kufr


Assalamu Alaikum

This is off topic however I think this is a good place to say this:



Disagreement is to be expected. we all disagree with things somebody else believes. Be that religious beliefs or beliefs in anything such as favorite ice cream, concepts of mathematics, favorite school subjects, fair prices for mukluks, appropriate colors for wall paper, etc.

Disagreement is not the problem. The problem seems to be how we react to disagreement. You will never think exactly the same as I do and I will never think the same as you do, that applies to all people.

It is ok to disagree even to argue. But it must be done with the understanding that all disagreement be done with dignity, honor and mutual respect.

I think that there are very few people who are atheists.I mean its hard to believe that there is no one there, just science and evolution. I dont think that muslims se christians or jews better than atheists or agnostics, but i would say ( correct me if im wrong) muslims show more respect to people of the book than to other nonbelievers. I mean, i dont know it for sure, but i just think like that.

format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim

it increases understanding and reduces ignorance.



I think both are HORRID (start recognising the one who gives you everything, to do otherwise is ingratitude at its greatest)

It dont matter if the theists accept a God, if its not Allaah, they still worship someone else, i feel sry for the sincere ones... but ALlah knows best


muslims are good

i am an agnostic who believes in god. in my view, there is only one god - so there is only allah.
it is religion i don't believe in, not god.

I am agnostic. Not Atheist. (Ok this is a slight departure from the topic) But

I learn as much as I can about other ways of life, other religions, and I sit back and ponder.

I stand away from the conflict and disagreement and battle and war and so-called "jihad" (please note I am not disrespecting the true meaning of the word) and I wonder about the problems of the world. And we have problems.... That need resolving. Europe USA Asia Australasia Africa...

And I actually put this matter to another collection of people on another Mulsim Forum and the majority told me in no uncertain terms that religion is not the problem. Religion is the solution. (Ok... well this is a matter of debate that I am continually pondering).

Well I say yes. It may be the solution...... If you look at things from ONE point of view. But we cannot look at ANYTHING from one pont of view, can we??!! How can we, when there are so many human beings, so many cultures...How many religions are there? How many variations of each religion...? Dozens? Hundreds? Who is right? Who is wrong? Do they all think they are right? Of course!!

What are the problems of this world and how can they be resolved?
How does impartiality come into it? I am impartial, so am I better eqipped to help others due to my impartiality, my non-biased approach when it comes to religion>? Ok, well do Christians favour Christian charities more, do Muslims support Muslim casues more than others, are Jews compelled to help only Jews?
Are Atheists and Agnostics impartial when it comes to war-victims and the needy and charities?

Actually...How many points of view are there? How many?

I have so many questions and this is why I feel I cannot even begin to embrace Atheism. Or religion!.... until I can solve the problems of the world in my own mind, problems of human beings, as G*D does not seem to be offering any help in the suffering of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, Zulus, Aborigones............blah blah blah. And they're all suffering, but is this why we BLAME everyone else so much.
As far as I can see, God is overseeing a gross amount, a disgusting dispicable history of unimaginable suffering... What? you mean we're doing it to ourselves and we should be following the word of god and that will be our saving grace? Well I would rather die helping those suffering people without the guidance of "GOD". I have the interests of those people at heart without ulterior motives, I DO NOT want the blessing of anyone, I want to give to others without self gratification, without religious gratification. I don't care if those gates of "Hell" are waiting for me if I can make a difference in this world.

When I go to S.America (volunteer work) in June I want to be able to look at others as human beings, as fellow planet-dwellers, not as A CATEGORY, OR A RELIGION, or as anything other than people. I will then be moving to Malaysia to work with underprivilaged children before I start my degree in September. I want to support them not for any selfish ulterior motive, that I will hope that God will note me favourably in my quest for "heaven", for "paradise". And do not be mistaken, it will certainly not be for any self gratification, but for the pure and simple human instinct that is care, compassion, and empathy.

I do not believe in fighting for someone I have never seen.... Or war in whatever kind.
I do believe in saying things as they are and standing your corner without bringing God into things.
I do believe in being offended but silently, unfalteringy having confidence in what you believe.
I do not believe in basing morality on religion - we have Godless morality, acknowleged by theists (please do ask me to quote).
I do believe that human beings can live together in all the more harmony without having to justify our actions through God and blaming their actions on what God wants.
I do belive that questioning the world we live in is healither than having one sole belief

But this is a HUUUUGE can of worms an it's probably not worth opening on here! I just wanted to give it a mention!

ATHIEST v THEIST

hmm. I'll stick with my unfinished conclusion thanky' very much.

In the words of a wise NY lady
CHEERS!