To muslims are atheists worse than other theists? (OP)
This is not meant to start bickering... so please ignore any trolls that try to take it that way (there's really only one I'd expect to do so).
What I want to know is how muslims in general feel about atheists. Are we seen merely as lost souls, ignorant of the truth, or are we seen as agents of Shaytan (sp?) and more of a threat to the true faith than any false religion could be?
I ask because I have noticed that here as well as elsewhere on the internet the muslims and christians and jews will argue with each other, even bicker from time to time but when dealing with the atheist it seems to be a whole other level of it. Are the atheists just more provocative or is there something about them not believing that itself troubles folks?
I've also met some devout christians who appear to be threatened or offended simply by learning I'm an atheist, without me saying anything more than that (or them finding out I'm an atheist from a third person). One of them refused to talk to me for weeks after learning I'm a heathen... which was just very strange because she was quite a nice and sweet lady otherwise. The fangs only came out after learning this.
I have not met many muslims in my real life (they simply aren't as prevalent here) so I'm wondering if the same phenomenon exists with them. Given that I say nothing against their faith, only that I'm atheist, would they regard me same as a christian or jew or would they have a special concern about me beyond that?
Fellow atheists and agnostics are welcome to opine on this as well (as well as all others here) but again I ask that this not be turned into a war zone as too often threads re atheism seem to.
Atheism isn't necessarily a belief, nor is it a philosophy. It is a viewpoint on a single metaphysical position.
that is the preponderant fallacy of modern times.
a single idea can and many times, is a virtual beleif system in and of itself
example, the entire religion of Islam, the millions of books written, the hundreds of thousands of theologians and preservers and the billions of muslims that have existed is based off of what you call one simple statement or view or single metaphysical position. that is
There is no thing that deserves to be worshiped (worship in this sense is comprehensive, part of its meaning here is no law should be obeyed if in opposition to the divine law, likewise attributing the very begining of how the creation was created to other than the Creator i.e. nature, is likewise placing worship to other than God, and there are other much comprehensive realities to the meaning of this statement) except God alone
and then Muhammad is the messenger who conveyed the message God enjoined upon mankind.
The whole of the religion of not only our religion, but the religion of the prophets are centrally based on this concept, this "single metaphysical" concept.
the next islamic perspective that synchronizes a viewpoint to be a religion is that the term religion does not or fails to entail the comprehensive aspect in the english terminology. Religion, as understood according to the english speaking world, for the most part consists of certain beleifs and rituals based on a metaphysical philosophy. That, according to the premodern world is devoid of the proper definition of religion. In Islam, when someone is swayed by an opinion, lets say the opinion or viewpoint that "God has no Attributes" then that properly in Islam is in and of itself an entirely new philosophy, a religion. That is why in Islam, certain sects are deemed by due right of the Islamic jurists as "another religion" even though they are classified as among the sects of Islam. Point is, is that just a mere viewpoint that steers away from the viewpoint of what was authentically established by the prophet of Islam can and is itself an entirely new concept i.e. a heresy.
Outside of the Islamic proofs, from the logical proofs that necessitate that a single viewpoint does and can be summed up as a religion in and of itself is that the reality of "religion" as it should be properly understood is a way of life. even certain conservative thinkers classify a "liberal mindset" as a religion or school of thought by itself, likewise they themsleves classify their ideas as a religion, because logically religion is a way of life, a way to carry onself in this life by beleifs and by actions and by statements.
atheism, at its core, as you understand, survives on the notion that God is Himself non existant wa iyaadhubillah. That "single metaphysical" theory in and of itself lures one to base the actions of his or her life on that premise. Therefore when the concept of "man can rule or legislate laws for themselves without the need of God" is itself an entire way life (as we see in america) based on one single concept, the beleif that makes atheism, atheism.
posted by trumble
Neither, of course, is any more illogical and preposterous (actually, neither is 'illogical' at all) than the other as nobody has ever proved there is a God any more than anybody has ever proved there isn't one. Whether we can admit it to ourselves or not, whichever camp you are in there is the possibility that you are wrong. That is why toleration, understanding and religious freedom are essential.
1. toleration is undisputed on top of which one must as well understand that a certain statement that someone may makle which is their evaluation of something else should not and cannot be classified as something "intolerant"
for example, when someone makes the preposterous assumtpion that Muhammad is a pedaphile, I understand that is their opinion and they are not being intolerant. And then when I remakrd on their compounded ignorance due to whcih led them to say such a thing, is likewise something that does not fit to be described as "intolerant"
2. as for the possibility of wrongness, even from a strictly logical viewpoint, the side that accepts the existance of the Creator is at a win/lose situation (losing based off of his own deeds) whereas the one who rejects the existence of their Creator is in a loose/loose situation. Even from a purely logical stance it makes no sense even if one were to assume the possibility that the stance of those who accept His existence are themselves wrong. However, man, as they were created can only make judgements that is proven by reason and due right of facts or the power of logic. The side that accepts His existence have reason and logic on their side as has most profoundednly been expounded upon by many theologians before simple me. Likewise in the contrast of this, if we were to look at its opposite, those who deny His existence, then only fallacious notions that oppose reason and logic is that which the beleif of His "non existance" stands upon.
3. lastly, one does not need a material proof for the absolute existance of a thing, thus your arguement would apply only in a world were people who can only be convinced based on a literal backing of a claim. But this world is not based on such a notion, otherwise judges in the court would have to be in the very incident when someone is getting murdered in order for them to ascertain the guilt of a suspect or not. The world does not function that way. What adds to the illogcal fallacy of the atheists is that while some of them may aknowledge this, they are quick to turn the tables so as to apply a different form of judging their own Creator. in other words, they may not subject human activities or objects in such a stringent methodology (of literalism to be convinced), but they are so quick to do so for a being who is by default beyond the creational aspects of this world. So with God they hold one method, and with other than Him they hold another, that is why they are willing to attribute the physical actual creation, its origion, to a non existant entity, nature, or the big bang. We can elaborate further into such catastrophic fallacies of atheism, but I don't have the time nor will to reenter this subject.
I hope i have entertained your questions on a satisfactory level.
ابو نعيمة علي البريكي
Islam's Think Tank: Deciphering Antagonist Jargon, Heretical Doctrines, Extracting the Principles of Shariah, Information in all the Islamic Sciences
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I totaly agree with the "respect" part but why do I have to be "trying to learn" to be OK?
well...learning means that they have the initiative to make 'peace' with the people that have religions.
learning can mean alot of things...
learning to understand
learning of the basic concept of religion
learning other culture
learning to show respect
learning to know why people love their religion
learning not to attack people that have religion
anyway...OK means OK to me...i'm not sure about others
p/s:- actually in Islam the worst are the hypocrites (munafiq)
Verily! The hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire." (4.145)
A Munafiq is he who portrays to be a Muslim while he conceals Kufr in his heart. The above type of Munafiqeen were at the time of Rasulullah .Therefore, those Munafiqeen were Muslims (believers externally) but not Mu'mins (believers by heart).
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 32:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "The signs of a hypocrite are three:
1. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie.
2. Whenever he promises, he always breaks it (his promise ).
3. If you trust him, he proves to be dishonest. (If you keep something as a trust with him, he will not return it.)
Last edited by syilla; 11-22-2007 at 05:57 AM.
25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
that is the preponderant fallacy of modern times.
a single idea can and many times, is a virtual beleif system in and of itself
But Atheism in and of itself is not. It is simply disbelief in God or the belief there is no God. Saying Atheism is an ideology is like saying disbelieving in Zeus is an ideology.
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
example, the entire religion of Islam, the millions of books written, the hundreds of thousands of theologians and preservers and the billions of muslims that have existed is based off of what you call one simple statement or view or single metaphysical position. that is
Islam is more than a single metaphysical position. It is an entire world view, both concerning itself with what is and what ought. If Islam simply just asserted a non-descript God, then it would simply be Theism - the assertion there is a God. It would not be an ideology.
Islam however is a lot more than that.
format_quote Originally Posted by al_Izaaree
atheism, at its core, as you understand, survives on the notion that God is Himself non existant wa iyaadhubillah. That "single metaphysical" theory in and of itself lures one to base the actions of his or her life on that premise.
Except I do not base my actions of my life on that premise. Atheism is what we use to describe those who do not believe in a God or believe there is no God. It is the notion of saying 'There is no God'.
format_quote Originally Posted by al_Izaaree
Therefore when the concept of "man can rule or legislate laws for themselves without the need of God" is itself an entire way life (as we see in america) based on one single concept, the beleif that makes atheism, atheism.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
1. toleration is undisputed on top of which one must as well understand that a certain statement that someone may makle which is their evaluation of something else should not and cannot be classified as something "intolerant"
Not automatically, no. Classification should depend on content.
2. as for the possibility of wrongness, even from a strictly logical viewpoint, the side that accepts the existance of the Creator is at a win/lose situation (losing based off of his own deeds) whereas the one who rejects the existence of their Creator is in a loose/loose situation. Even from a purely logical stance it makes no sense even if one were to assume the possibility that the stance of those who accept His existence are themselves wrong.
You are confusing the logic or otherwise of holding a particular belief with arguing for the truth of that belief itself. Even then, while the argument is valid it is unsound as it involves an assumption that is patently untrue.. that we are able to choose, in isloation, whether we 'believe' something or not. Pascal's wager was shot down long ago.
The side that accepts His existence have reason and logic on their side as has most profoundednly been expounded upon by many theologians before simple me. Likewise in the contrast of this, if we were to look at its opposite, those who deny His existence, then only fallacious notions that oppose reason and logic is that which the beleif of His "non existance" stands upon.
The briefest review of any elementary philosophy of religion text will reveal that that is simply untrue. You are just presenting your own opinion, based on your own belief.
3. lastly, one does not need a material proof for the absolute existance of a thing, thus your arguement would apply only in a world were people who can only be convinced based on a literal backing of a claim.
Nobody needs material proof to believe but my argument, insofar as I have made one, depends on no such thing. Exactly the same applies belief in the non-existence of a thing. In that case you perhaps find it a lot harder to find 'proof', being much easier to prove something exists than that it doesn't... but no proof has been provided either way
Last edited by Trumble; 11-22-2007 at 07:34 PM.
Reason: typo
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
well...learning means that they have the initiative to make 'peace' with the people that have religions.
learning can mean alot of things...
learning to understand
learning of the basic concept of religion
learning other culture
learning to show respect
learning to know why people love their religion
learning not to attack people that have religion
anyway...OK means OK to me...i'm not sure about others
p/s:- actually in Islam the worst are the hypocrites (munafiq)
Verily! The hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire." (4.145)
well...learning means that they have the initiative to make 'peace' with the people that have religions? I know very little about Hinduism yet there is 'peace' with my Hindu friends.
So why is necessary for me to understand your religion to make 'peace'?
More over, why is that my responsibility and you don't seam to think you have any responsibility to understand my beliefs?
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by Skavau
But Atheism in and of itself is not. It is simply disbelief in God or the belief there is no God. Saying Atheism is an ideology is like saying disbelieving in Zeus is an ideology.
disbeleiving iin zeus is itself a way of life. Let me be more explanatoryt. If one beleives in Zeus as a deity to be worhsiped, then they will by default accustom their life by knowing who he was and his likings and so on and so forth. Thus it becomes a way of life for such a person i.e. religion. Likewise its opposite, the disbeleif in him equals that one will not accustom their life according tot he desire of Zeus. in other words they will adopt another way of life not centrally focused on their worship of him but rather on soemthing else. this, is called religion. So the disbeleif of zeus equals a religion and in this case it is monotheism, otherwise the belief in him equals polytheism. This is not up for dicsion im merely explaining this relaity to you for a better udnerstanding.
Islam is more than a single metaphysical position. It is an entire world view, both concerning itself with what is and what ought. If Islam simply just asserted a non-descript God, then it would simply be Theism - the assertion there is a God. It would not be an ideology.
Islam however is a lot more than that.
1. are you educating me on my religion. It is not up for discussion, im telling you, Islam is built on one single metaphysical position from which the entirety and vasteness of Islam is built, without that single metaphysical position, none of Islam would have been here to begin with. all of whatever you can attribute to Islam is due to only one them, the central pillar of whihc ALL muslims will attest to, that is what I mentioned to you earlier, that is
"there is no deity deserving of worship except Allah (God) alone" you seethe entire legislation of Islam is built on that, the entire theological works are based on this, when we pray, it is because of this, when we fast, it is because of this, when we established the charity tax, it is because of this central theme, when anything is done by due right of Islam, it is due to this central single metaphysical stance, without which Islam itself wouldn ot have existed period.
2. again that "central" world view is only based on that single metaphysical entity that being, la ilaha ilallah
Except I do not base my actions of my life on that premise. Atheism is what we use to describe those who do not believe in a God or believe there is no God. It is the notion of saying 'There is no God'.
yes you do. SInce you don't beleive in God, in His existence, then it follows that you will definately not beleive in thereality of the Day in hwihc ALla of us will be judged on account of our deeds, thus when yo adopt the philosophy of being kind to your fellow neighbor, your only doing so for the sake of what you think is right, in contradiction to doing so for the sake of the Lord of he worlds, and as is known in islam, any deeds done for other than the sake of God, is polytheism by default.
Likewise since you don't beleive in His existence, then your life will not be centered around His pleasure or commands and prohibitions rather you will by default center your life on how "you feel" and think it should be treaded upon. That is why you are thre judge of your own life instead of the One who created you, which is again another form of polytheism.
atheism is the label attributed to those who do not beleive in God, and thus their outlook on life is based on that premise, that is why it is in spite of your negation of it, a religion., But this as well, is not up for discussion, if you did'nt get it up to this point, then your simply just not going to get it, unfortunately
That's Secularism.
we know that's secularism, but where did it spring from. It sprang from the mist of atheism. Had ahteism did not come about, secualrism goes out the door in the the depths of non existance.
atheists managed to seduce the christian world, or the most of it, to quagmire of secularism beleiving in the correctness of it, and now these ideolocal inceptions are being induced upon our nation in spite of prophetic statements that gurantee that won't happen. but that is neither here nor there.
You are confusing the logic or otherwise of holding a particular belief with arguing for the truth of that belief itself.
no, Im speaking purely from a logical sense and not arguing for anything. rather in a business transaction, if I have the choice to
1. have faith that this man will help me and aid me and
2. have no faith that he will help me and aid me
and the outcome is of two fold, either 1, i have faith in him and I loose nothign as a result or 2, don't have faith in his and losse everythign as a result. From a logical point of view if I were to accept having faith in him wihtout any loose, and if Im wrong, nothign happenes, versus, not having faith in him and then if im worng, I loose everything. What is the most logical transaction.
The briefest review of any elementary philosophy of religion text will review that is simply untrue. You are just presenting your own opinion, based on your own belief.
our prophet revealed to us "the burden of proof is upon the claiment"
Since the establishement of logic and reason and the reality of His existence has been laid down throughout the eras, and now your coming into the game in opposition ot what has already been established, I ask what is yopur proof to suggest that im merely "speaking of my opinion" in spite of the fact that I restrict all of my beleifs and actiosn to only "what was already established". in other words, I have no opinion, rather I make sure I have a predecessor in whatever charges I make.
No one does not material proof to believe, but my argument, insofar as I have made one, depends on no such thing. Exactly the same applies belief in the non-existence of a thing. In that case you perhaps find it a lot harder to find 'proof', being much easier to prove something exists than that it doesn't... but no proof has been provided either way
this is patently contradictory in and of itself.
on one hand you say
but my argument, insofar as I have made one, depends on no such thing
and then in the same breath say
but no proof has been provided either way
in one instance you establish as your pillar that you don't define the reality of having literal mateial proof for it to be beleived in as a condition. That means on that basis when existing proofs hint to or point to the reality of a thing, then under such arguement, you would by default accept it due to 'evidences" and "signs" or indicators of the existance of a thing. and then on the second hand you say
"no proof has been provided" which virtually undermines your claim above. The relaity is is that such proofs, indicator, signs, and evidences have thus been furnished, but you do not see them as "proof" for the side that accepts His reality in spite of the fact that they are proofs in and of themselves.
ابو نعيمة علي البريكي
Islam's Think Tank: Deciphering Antagonist Jargon, Heretical Doctrines, Extracting the Principles of Shariah, Information in all the Islamic Sciences
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
disbeleiving iin zeus is itself a way of life. Let me be more explanatoryt. If one beleives in Zeus as a deity to be worhsiped, then they will by default accustom their life by knowing who he was and his likings and so on and so forth. Thus it becomes a way of life for such a person i.e. religion. Likewise its opposite, the disbeleif in him equals that one will not accustom their life according tot he desire of Zeus.
Yes. So how does the above demonstrate that disbelieving in Zeus is itself a way of life?
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
in other words they will adopt another way of life not centrally focused on their worship of him but rather on soemthing else. this, is called religion. So the disbeleif of zeus equals a religion and in this case it is monotheism, otherwise the belief in him equals polytheism. This is not up for dicsion im merely explaining this relaity to you for a better udnerstanding.
Eh? The disbelief in Zeus equals a monotheistic religion? You appear unaware of what a 'way of life' is. Disbelieving in Zeus in and of itself implies no lifestyle or way of life - it only implies disbelief in Zeus.
If disbelieving in Zeus resulted in the framework of a specific belief system - then it would be a way of life. But as it does not, it is not. A way of life is a positive assertion. You appear to define anything as a way of life and reduce the meaning of it to arbitrariness.
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
1. are you educating me on my religion. It is not up for discussion, im telling you, Islam is built on one single metaphysical position from which the entirety and vasteness of Islam is built, without that single metaphysical position, none of Islam would have been here to begin with.
Islam asserts more than simply believing in God. That is why it is a way of life. Islam may be based from a specific metaphysical viewpoint, but the way of life in Islam itself comes from the scriptures. Atheism is not at all like that, it is just a rejection of a single metaphysical viewpoint.
A way of life from something is something that asserts it. Islam is a way of life and it asserts it. Atheism does not.
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
yes you do. SInce you don't beleive in God, in His existence, then it follows that you will definately not beleive in thereality of the Day in hwihc ALla of us will be judged on account of our deeds, thus when yo adopt the philosophy of being kind to your fellow neighbor, your only doing so for the sake of what you think is right, in contradiction to doing so for the sake of the Lord of he worlds, and as is known in islam, any deeds done for other than the sake of God, is polytheism by default.
Atheism is actually the result of my beliefs regarding God (or lack thereof). My ethical decisions are separate from the disbelief in God. I do not even concern myself with the non-existence of God when considering ethical values.
Irrespective, if all of the above are indeed consequences of Atheism - then Atheism is still not a way of life because Atheism in and of itself is a single viewpoint on a single metaphysical assertion.
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
Likewise since you don't beleive in His existence, then your life will not be centered around His pleasure or commands and prohibitions rather you will by default center your life on how "you feel" and think it should be treaded upon. That is why you are thre judge of your own life instead of the One who created you, which is again another form of polytheism.
No. All Atheists have in common is that they all agree on a single metaphysical viewpoint. You do not know how Atheists approach ethical systems and neither do I. There is no fluency because Atheism implies nor asserts not ethical assertions.
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
atheism is the label attributed to those who do not beleive in God, and thus their outlook on life is based on that premise, that is why it is in spite of your negation of it, a religion.,
Except that saying my outlook in life is based on Atheism is equal to saying my outlook on life is based on my disbelief in Zeus, Brahma and Odin. None of them are true since they are completely meaningless in my day to day functions.
And moreover, do you even know what a religion is? A religion is a system of common beliefs about reality (both is and/or ought) and an more often than not an acquired sense of community amongst the adherents. Saying Atheism is a religion is like saying not playing chess is a hobby. It is like saying Disbelieving in Zeus, Odin and Thor is a religion and it is like saying that any viewpoint automatically becomes a way of life.
format_quote Originally Posted by al-Izaaree
we know that's secularism, but where did it spring from. It sprang from the mist of atheism. Had ahteism did not come about, secualrism goes out the door in the the depths of non existance.
Perhaps, Perhaps not. Irrespective of the origins of Secularism, it does not make Atheism a way of life. All it shows is that some Atheists advocated Secularism. The definition of Atheism still remains untouched.
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
do you believe God to be allwise?
because if you do, it is common knowledge that you do not make something without a manual, if it is a bit too complicated you even send an instructor.
I consider it foolish to think God would create an earth and not set any instructions or instructors.
you let me know what you think
yes, i believe god to be all wise. as for the manual - i simply don't know.
i can't conceive of god being confined to a religion - to me, he is beyond religion.
i'm doing good to believe in god! until fairly recent years, i never concerned myself with whether or not he existed at all - though i've never been an atheist. (some agnostics believe in god, some don't)
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
yes, i believe god to be all wise. as for the manual - i simply don't know.
i can't conceive of god being confined to a religion - to me, he is beyond religion.
i'm doing good to believe in god! until fairly recent years, i never concerned myself with whether or not he existed at all - though i've never been an atheist. (some agnostics believe in god, some don't)
Congratulations on your conclusion, however its not enough you still got a ways to go.
Do you believe in the one-ness of God?!
Do you think he is capable of selecting his most beloved and humbled servent to bring the rest of humanity to being civil?! (ie giving up evil and corruption and worshipping him in peace)
Do you think He (Allaah) is capable of causing the supernatural?! (think of all the inexplicable occurances aswell as the recently found crack in the moon)
Do you believe in justice?!
Just ask yourself these questions, and slowly if you have a sincere heart, you will realise that without religion you have no answer, and no destination... why would God let humans be in such a state?!... in his mercy he sends religion
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Congratulations on your conclusion, however its not enough you still got a ways to go.
Do you believe in the one-ness of God?!
Do you think he is capable of selecting his most beloved and humbled servent to bring the rest of humanity to being civil?! (ie giving up evil and corruption and worshipping him in peace)
Do you think He (Allaah) is capable of causing the supernatural?! (think of all the inexplicable occurances aswell as the recently found crack in the moon)
Do you believe in justice?!
Just ask yourself these questions, and slowly if you have a sincere heart, you will realise that without religion you have no answer, and no destination... why would God let humans be in such a state?!... in his mercy he sends religion
yes, i believe in the one-ness of god and of course he could cause the supernatural.
about the rest, i do not know, but my mind is not closed. (though i admit -i don't like religion.)
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
Historically its impossible to deny that men came claiming to be prophets sent by God... the rest you gotta decide.
As for your hatred for religion, you should only hate what causes corruption, if you could see through my eyes, you would see that without islaam the corruption would have been far greater.... islaam is helping to fight it...
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Historically its impossible to deny that men came claiming to be prophets sent by God... the rest you gotta decide.
As for your hatred for religion, you should only hate what causes corruption, if you could see through my eyes, you would see that without islaam the corruption would have been far greater.... islaam is helping to fight it...
i do not have hatred for religion - i just don't really see a need for a religion in order to worship god. i believe religions are man-made institutions that come between an individual and god. and eventually, institutions not only become corrupt, but their self-perpetuation eventually becomes the top priority.
who knows? my views could change, but this is where i am right now.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i do not have hatred for religion - i just don't really see a need for a religion in order to worship god. i believe religions are man-made institutions that come between an individual and god. and eventually, institutions not only become corrupt, but their self-perpetuation eventually becomes the top priority.
who knows? my views could change, but this is where i am right now.
do you believe a school and university come in between a man and his right to operate on another man?! or his right to prescribe medecine?! or his right to build a running car?!
no! in the same manner, we need guidance... how can we possibly expect to know best?!..
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
Re: To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
do you believe a school and university come in between a man and his right to operate on another man?! or his right to prescribe medecine?! or his right to build a running car?!
no! in the same manner, we need guidance... how can we possibly expect to know best?!..
i don't think they are comparable.
i don't know if we need guidance beyond our innate sense of morality and ethics.
i am not saying that you are wrong - just that i don't know.
personally, i don't feel a need for a religion in order to worship god. maybe it is because i was not raised in any religion so have never belonged to one.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
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