In the Qur’an Muhammad claims only to be a messenger or warner to the people.
Sura 34:28 "And we have not sent you (O Mohammed) except as a giver of glad tidings and a Warner to all people."
Muhammad never claimed that through following him you would go to heaven, in fact when challenged he had this to say about himself not being saved.
Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
Muhammad refused to perform any miracles as he could not!
Sura 29:50 And they say, `Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?' Say, `The Signs are with ALLAH, and I am but a plain warner,'
Muhammad used the Bible to make a point about his teaching, this very claim gives evidence by Muhammad of the truth of the Bible.
Sura 46:10 Say: "See ye? If (this teaching) be from Allah, and ye reject it, and a witness from among the Children of Israel testifies to its similarity (with earlier scripture), and has believed while ye are arrogant, (how unjust ye are!) truly, Allah guides not a people unjust."
In Islam everyone must go to hell first including Muslims the Qur’an declares it!
Sura 19:66-69. Man says: "What! When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?"
But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?
So, by thy Lord, without doubt, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Satans (with them); then shall We bring them forth on their knees round about Hell;
Then shall We certainly drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against (Allah) Most Gracious.
Sura 19:71 mentioned not one will pass over it i.e all Muslims must enter hell;
71. Not one of you but will pass over it: this is, with thy Lord, a Decree which must be accomplished.
Muhammad acknowledged in the Qur’an that he is a sinner and asks forgiveness for his sins both past, present and future!
Sura 48:2 That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfill His favor to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way;
Claims of Jesus of Nazareth !
Jesus Claimed himself sinless which is also mentioned in the Qur’an as a holy/pure son.
Sura 19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
1 Pet 1:19 But he paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God
Jesus claimed he was the only way to go to heaven and the only truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name (other then Jesus Christ) under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Jesus further provided an amazing miracle raising a dead person four days after this person’s death when the dead body would be rotten and full of stench.
John 11:39-44 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Jesus claimed to resurrect the dead to life even unto eternal life with full authority.
Jesus said unto her (Martha), I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jesus claimed he could give eternal life and no one could reverse it or take it away so if you trust in Jesus Christ he will take you to heaven and he is the only one who can do this!
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jesus claimed to be the very word of God, God in flesh on earth who made the world and the creator of the world.
He claimed to be God on earth (Immanuel) God with us, he died and rose again showing the power he has over death and life.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (the two are one in nature).
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Jesus claimed he came on earth to forgive sins once and for all times for those who believed in him and followed him!
John 1:29 next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The Qur’an attests to Jesus being word of God, Kalmatullah and the Spirit of God i.e Ruhh Allah Sura 4:171.
Conclusion
So in essence Jesus is the only one who made the claim of divine authorship and forgiveness of your sins to enter heaven whilst Muhammad does not claim to give you eternal life in anyway possible, even your good deeds guarantee nothing, though you maybe sincerely following a religious or non religious system but you can still be sincerely wrong, Jesus said that it is the condition of your heart which allows God to work in your life and to reveal his only truth the only road to everlasting life through Messiah Jesus.
Jer 29:13 You shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart.
If you pray to the Lord Jesus for forgiveness of your sins then not only are your sins forgiven by the blood he shed on the cross but he will enter your life for a personal relationship.
John 6: 47, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life!
Conclusion
Muhammad offered no way to remove your sins, you eternal state hangs in the balance i.e you do not go to heaven at all as he made no such promises but simply said you might or might not.?????
Do you want to live your life on a might or might not?????
It is Jesus Christ who was the final offering for sin on the cross which atones (covers) or removes our sins so that we can go to heaven without having to pay the penalty of sin which is eternal death i.e no heaven but straight to hell for an eternity.
Eternity is a long time to be wrong and there is no comeback so think carefully and choose what is right.
I do not know if the Quran speaks or not about the present day Bible.
We are quite aware that your knowledge of the Qur'an and the Bible is limited, as this post illustrates.
Is for example the Tawra from the Quran a part of the Bible or not ?
The Tawrât is what was originally revealed to Moses. While some parts of the original message may exist in the present-day Bible, much has been corrupted and altered.
My point is that the people who wrote the Quran mistakenly thought that the Bible writers believed that God could get tired and needed rest.
And I just refuted this point in my previous post, which you ignored. The Qur'an refutes any conception that God was tired after Creation which was a popular belief amongst many groups although modern day Christians and Jews no longer hold this view. This is what the quote from Dr. Ataie explains - that the Qur'an is not interested in refuting neo-christianity or whatever has evolved from that, but the specific deviant beliefs originally propagated. Besides, nowhere in the Qur'anic verses you cited does it make any mention of what is in the Bible. This is just an assumption on your part. The Qur'an doesn't care who believes that God has the human attribute of fatigue, it refutes the erroneous notion regardless.
Christians believe that Jesus is spiritually AND literally the Son of God. I don't know what you are refering to ? Christians have never claimed that Jesus was an ethereal being. He was conceived, grew in his mother's womb, and was born like any other child.
Clearly you are also not well informed about Christian beliefs either. No Trinitarian Christian today would dare claim that Jesus is the literal i.e. biological son of God. In fact Christians believe that the Son existed EVEN BEFORE THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME UPON MARY. They do not claim that the Son only came into existence when Mary became pregnant.
It is amazing that, not only must I remove your misconceptions about the beliefs of Muslims, but about the beliefs of Christians as well!
The story that all manuscripts from Muhammad's time were destroyed by Uthman may be a lie, but then where does that lie come from ? It is the first time that I see that story denied.
It is quite clear that you've been misinformed about the entire process. During Uthman's time, he ordered that only copies would be made of the manuscript that had been collected and recorded under the supervision of all the Companions. All unauthorised copies were to be burned to PREVENT circulation of copies containing errors. Thus, this event actually protected the Qur'an from alteration and corruption.
I still do not see any of those thousands of small texts written on various objects by the Prophet's secretaries.
This does not damage the Qur'an's preservation at all. These small scraps and texts were used to compile the first mushaf after which that became the authoritative copy. It is also important to note that even though the companions had all memorized the Qur'an by heart, they still set the lofty requirement of two witnesses for each verse, who had recorded that verse under the supervision of the Prophet himself.
Once again, it seems like you are speaking about a subject that you have very little knowledge of - the Qur'anic preservation. I would recommend that you adequately educate yourself on this subject first by reading the works I recommended earlier.
Regards
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
All we know about the writing and preservation of the Quran does not come from reports that were written down at the time of the Prophet, but from oral traditions that were collected and written down decades and sometimes centuries after Muhammad's death.
You have similar oral traditions put to writing in Catholicism and Mormonism. Does it make them historical facts that will make you believe in Catholicism and Mormonism ?
So we have no proofs that the companions had all memorized the Qur'an by heart, that the requirement of two witnesses for each verse was set, that every verse was recorded under the supervision of the Prophet himself. That looks more like holy legends made up to compensate the lack of documents.
What I have heard about Uthman's recension is that there are several different stories about it.
I still haven't seen a document from Muhammad's time. If only copies were burned, like the ones seen on the pictures I guess, what about all the pieces and scraps ?
Another question: why had copies to be burned ? Answer: because there were differently written Qurans in circulation, which gives a serious blow to the preservation theory.
Have you ever heard of the Christian dogma of Incarnation. Christians state that Jesus was 100% human and 100% God, all in one. It was the human part of Jesus that came into physical existence when Mary became pregnant and it merged so to speak with the godly Son from the Trinity.
Of course Jesus as God preexisted from eternity, that is the core of the Trinity.
When I said Jesus was not an ethereal being I was refering to the human part of Jesus.
The first time I came across the verse of the Quran that God was not tired from creating I immediately knew to what it was refering. I made me smile and I would have forgotten the seemingly naivety of it. But as there are other instances in the Quran with naive sayings, it gave credence to my first impression.
----
MODERATOR: WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO DISCUSS ISSUES ONE-BY-ONE? WHY PASTE A LIST OF ALLEGATIONS? ANOTHER COP-OUT OF A DEBATE?
If much in the Bible has been corrupted why do Muslims abundantly quote from it ?
I won't ask for proofs of corruption as Muslims have never showed any.
Let's not play on words with "corruption". It means that Jews and Christians had sacred scriptures, and in the course of history, someone (or a number of people) managed to change those scriptures. That is what is meant by corruption.
All we know about the writing and preservation of the Quran does not come from reports that were written down at the time of the Prophet, but from oral traditions that were collected and written down decades and sometimes centuries after Muhammad's death.
You have similar oral traditions put to writing in Catholicism and Mormonism. Does it make them historical facts that will make you believe in Catholicism and Mormonism ?
Until you educated yourself there is no point in debating you. You are completely ignorant about not only the Qur'anic compilation and preservation but hadith methodology as well. You couldn't differentiate between an authentic hadith and a fabricated one if your life depended on it. Now I gave you the links and the resources from which to educate youself, so I have given you the opportunity to cure your ignorance. Whether you choose to do so, however, is entirely your decision.
So we have no proofs that the companions had all memorized the Qur'an by heart
Do you know anything about taraweeh? Every year in Ramadan, the imaam at ever masjid recites the ENTIRE QUR'AN VERBATIM before all the worshippers. Do you know anything about ijazaazah that people acquire in Qur'an? There are millions and millions of scholars who are part of an unbroken chain that leads directly to the Prophet, with specific NAMES. The companions taught the next generation who taught the next generation and so on, until today. Memorization of the Qur'an has always been the tradition of the Muslim community and it is one of the features of the Qur'an that distinguishes it from every other scripture in the world. I challenge you to tell me even one other scripture which has such a massive number of people who memorize it. There are members of this forum who have memorized the entire Qur'an, word-for-word, letter-for-letter. This tradition did not spontaneously arise in the Muslim community, it has been here since the beginning.
that the requirement of two witnesses for each verse was set, that every verse was recorded under the supervision of the Prophet himself.
This is something established in AUTHENTIC NARRATIONS. Since you have no education in hadith mehtodology, and have no qualifications as a Muhaddith, please excuse me if I discard your opinion on these narrations amongst the other conjecture you have advanced on this forum as though it were fact.
What I have heard about Uthman's recension is that there are several different stories about it.
I don't care what hearsay and rumous you have heard. They have no place in a SCIENTIFIC DISCUSSION BASED ON EVIDENCE.
I still haven't seen a document from Muhammad's time.
Any copies that were not authorised were burned to ensure that copies were only made of the manuscript which was collected and confirmed by all the companions. I already answered this, but of course you weren't interested in the answer.
Have you ever heard of the Christian dogma of Incarnation. Christians state that Jesus was 100% human and 100% God, all in one. It was the human part of Jesus that came into physical existence when Mary became pregnant and it merged so to speak with the godly Son from the Trinity.
Of course Jesus as God preexisted from eternity, that is the core of the Trinity.
When I said Jesus was not an ethereal being I was refering to the human part of Jesus.
I know you need to make excuses up now to save face, but none of these points excuse you for the blunder you made, namely that you said:
Christians believe that Jesus is spiritually AND literally the Son of God
Christians do NOT believe that Jesus is the literal biological son of God.
The first time I came across the verse of the Quran that God was not tired from creating I immediately knew to what it was refering.
You mean you immediately ASSUMED as to what it was referring to. Well guess what, you may have ASSUMED wrong!
The statement that God was not tired is true and it refutes anyone who believes in that statement. It doesn't matter whether they are Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Satanists, etc. The Qur'an is only interestred in refuting this misconception.
Once again you are pasting all your alleged errors. Are you too afraid to discuss them with me one by one in the ----------------------- thread?
If much in the Bible has been corrupted why do Muslims abundantly quote from it ?
I'm not discussing about the preservation of the Quran after Uthman until today, but from the time of revelation to Uthman.
You know the argument that if a book says everything in it is true, it is not a proof that it is true.
So if you have hadith that say they are true, it is not a proof that they are true.
Hadith have been written at least 150 years after Muhammad and the isnad starters.
"Christians do NOT believe that Jesus is the literal biological son of God."
Why do you keep saying that ? Jesus (according to Christians) is the biological son of God. It is called the virgin birth !
The "fathering" agent is the Holy Spirit, that is God, and the mother is Mary.
If you want me to continue the miraclesofthequran thread I'll do it.
"Christians do NOT believe that Jesus is the literal biological son of God."
Why do you keep saying that ? Jesus (according to Christians) is the biological son of God. It is called the virgin birth !
It is the Christians themselves who emphasize this point. If you want to debate go debate with them. They have written books and books saying that "The term “Son of God” is used in different senses in the Bible. But, never does it mean that God has a wife and produces offspring." and that "The term 'son of God' is symbolic, it does not mean that Christ is the biological off-spring of God as God does not have a spouse."
It is the MORMONS who believe that Christ is the literal biological son of God!
If you want me to continue the miraclesofthequran thread I'll do it.
Ther'es no point in continuing a discussion just for the sake of argument. In every single post you've given on the forum all you have done is make unsubstantiated claims and lies. No proof whatsoever. You just parrot claims like "Qur'an copied Bible" "Qur'an is book of fables" "Qur'an copied pagan myths" but you never give evidence to support anything. You're not interested in learning and finding out the truth about the Qur'an and the hadith. You even have the audacity to pass judgments on the hadith when you have absolutely no education on hadith methodology whatsoever. You arrogance is shocking!
A forum is a place for discussion. It doesn't work if one person simply is interested in voicing their personal opinions without listening to others. Too many times on this forum you have ignored our requests for evidence to support your unsubstantiated claims. If you continue to do so, you will be banned.
Regards
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
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