Are you a fan of relatives marriage? hmm

incest means sexual intercourse between persons too closely related to marry (as between a parent and a child brother and sister, uncle and niece) etc..

I am not a fan of cousins marrying but it isn't incest...

We too are amazed at laws that allow for homosexual marriages, sex changes, insemination from unknown donors with the risk of offspring potentially marrying a half brother/sister (actual incest) and accept them morally and socially, yet we learn to live with it.. in time you will too!

all the best

format_quote Originally Posted by WesStrikesBack

Does the Quran allow marriage of first cousins?

It's clear that a coupling of first cousins will double the rate of birth defects--odd that a religion would promote doubling the chance of inbred Muslim children.

Some science to back it up, if you believe in that sort of thing:

Inbreeding may result in a far higher phenotypic expression of deleterious recessive genes within a population than would normally be expected.[1] As a result, first-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects, including:

* reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability
* increased genetic disorders
* fluctuating facial asymmetry
* lower birth rate
* higher infant mortality
* slower growth rate
* smaller adult size
* loss of immune system function.

You are sure that the Quran promotes it right? Please, say you are, cause saying statements then not having proof of the statement you made, is a very bad way to get no where.

format_quote Originally Posted by WesStrikesBack

Does the Quran allow marriage of first cousins?

It's clear that a coupling of first cousins will double the rate of birth defects--odd that a religion would promote doubling the chance of inbred Muslim children.

Some science to back it up, if you believe in that sort of thing:

Inbreeding may result in a far higher phenotypic expression of deleterious recessive genes within a population than would normally be expected.[1] As a result, first-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects, including:

* reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability
* increased genetic disorders
* fluctuating facial asymmetry
* lower birth rate
* higher infant mortality
* slower growth rate
* smaller adult size
* loss of immune system function.

Actually it isn't clear, and science doesn't back it up to the degree of your liking..

Marriage between cousins isn't prohibited, but has nothing to do with religion considering the majority of consanguineous marriages aren't prevalent in Muslim community as they are say in the Jewish community ..

see here on: Studies of Jewish statistics.
http://books.google.com/books?id=2O1...esult&resnum=1

secondly not enough studies are done on the matter, thus leaving me at a loss of where you got your above info. even if true isn't properly sourced in any scientific journal I can find.

and I have a subscription to quite a large data base..

A Community Genetics Perspective on Consanguineous Marriage


Abstract
Consanguineous marriage has long been a controversial topic, with particular attention focused on adverse health outcomes. Unfortunately, the studies that have been conducted on consanguinity to date have usually lacked control for important sociodemographic variables, such as maternal age and birth intervals, and in estimating specific disease gene frequency, they have ignored the influence of population sub-division. Inadequate attention has also been paid to the social benefits associated with intra-familial marriage, resulting in a biased overall cost-benefit assessment. Worldwide, some 1,000 million people live in countries where 20 to more than 50% of marriages are consanguineous, and large migrant communities from these regions are now resident in Western Europe, North America and Oceania. The need for comprehensive and more balanced investigations into all aspects of consanguineous marriage is pressing and merits a substantial international collaborative research effort.
Copyright © 2008 S. Karger AG, Basel


http://content.karger.com/produktedb...file=000133304


all the best

No, because I don't want to be more related to my relatives than I already am -not that it's a bad thing- But growing up with your cousins allow you to know them well. And I think a marriage is boring once you know all about the person you're marrying.

I've never witnessed any cousinxcousin marriages.

format_quote Originally Posted by The Ruler

No, because I don't want to be more related to my relatives than I already am

lol that it such a good point sister

format_quote Originally Posted by WesStrikesBack

Does the Quran allow marriage of first cousins?

It's clear that a coupling of first cousins will double the rate of birth defects--odd that a religion would promote doubling the chance of inbred Muslim children.

Some science to back it up, if you believe in that sort of thing:

Inbreeding may result in a far higher phenotypic expression of deleterious recessive genes within a population than would normally be expected.[1] As a result, first-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects, including:

* reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability
* increased genetic disorders
* fluctuating facial asymmetry
* lower birth rate
* higher infant mortality
* slower growth rate
* smaller adult size
* loss of immune system function.

do you also know what age those "defects" appear ?
and how much the chances are?


I personally wouldn't marry my first cousin, and there ain't one who is compatible with me anyway...even if there would, I still wouldn't marry.


but in general CousinXcousin marriage should be fine IMO

format_quote Originally Posted by WesStrikesBack

My post was not an assertion, it was a question. I asked if the Quran allows first cousin marriage, not does it promote it. Please read my post before you attack it.

the marriage between cousins isn't mentioned in the Quran, again it is neither condemned nor condoned!

My problem is not with religion or Islam specifically, but the practices of any religion that hurts children. In my experience, and looking at the scientific evidence, allowing cousins to marry is abusive to children, as it doubles their incidence of serious birth defects.

Unfounded!

If there was a child that was allowed to perform a behavoir that doubled its chances of being seriously injured or crippled, wouldn't allowing that behavoir be abusive? What's the difference?

another comment based on an priori judgment and not supported by scientific facts!

And what advantage could there be for a prophet to carefully lay out marriage rules that allow cousins to marry? To insulate the community from outsiders? To assist men to take any woman they choose, whether she be a relative or not?

would you like to also back that up with some evidence directly from Islamic jurisprudence? Muslims compass 1.86 billion of the world's population, from china to the U.S anyone is free to marry whom they choose!

Again, religion is not my focus here--just practices that can potentially harm children.

indeed, and so very evident from your enlightening posts thus far..

all the best

format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

Actually it isn't clear, and science doesn't back it up to the degree of your liking..

Marriage between cousins isn't prohibited, but has nothing to do with religion considering the majority of consanguineous marriages aren't prevalent in Muslim community as they are say in the Jewish community ..

Skye I live in a region in America where incest is an epidemic problem. It is either cousin relationships or in some cases sexual relations between parents and children or aunts/uncles and nieces/nephews. Do a google search on Appalachia and incest and see what you come up with. Usually if incest has not occured in the family and it is a lateral relationship the offspring will usually not suffer. But the problem is when it is happening generation after generation and the reccessive genes become dominate. I see people almost everyday who are to some degree mentally ill or mentally retarded and have the facial features ones sees on inbred people such as a flat forehead. These people also suffer from numerous physical health problems as well. This happened due to the geographic isolation of the area when all one had to marry was a cousin. Childhood sexual abuse/incest are also a problem. My husband used to work at a local crisis center and the nature of alot of his calls were surviviors of incest or those conceived of incest. while an isolated cousin marriage may produce little or no adverse affects on the children, if it keeps happening it will affect the offspring.

format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982

Skye I live in a region in America where incest is an epidemic problem. It is either cousin relationships or in some cases sexual relations between parents and children or aunts/uncles and nieces/nephews. Do a google search on Appalachia and incest and see what you come up with. Usually if incest has not occured in the family and it is a lateral relationship the offspring will usually not suffer. But the problem is when it is happening generation after generation and the reccessive genes become dominate. I see people almost everyday who are to some degree mentally ill or mentally retarded and have the facial features ones sees on inbred people such as a flat forehead. These people also suffer from numerous physical health problems as well. This happened due to the geographic isolation of the area when all one had to marry was a cousin. Childhood sexual abuse/incest are also a problem. My husband used to work at a local crisis center and the nature of alot of his calls were surviviors of incest or those conceived of incest. while an isolated cousin marriage may produce little or no adverse affects on the children, if it keeps happening it will affect the offspring.

again, you fail to define incest, I believe I have covered it well above.. Incest is a CARDINAL SIN

see here:

Name of Questioner

Nur - Malaysia

Title

Incest: Islamic View

Question

As-salamu `alaykum. My name is faezah. I would like to know the Islamic point of view on incest. In Malaysia, incest is now rampant and the laws are not sufficient in curbing this heinous crime. Do you have any recommendation on how to curb this crime?

Date

08/Mar/2007

Name of Mufti

IOL Shari`ah Researchers

Topic

Adultery & Fornication

Answer

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear sister in Islam, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

No doubt zina (adultery or fornication) is one of the gravest sins that incur Allah’s severest punishment on the Day of Judgment. Allah Almighty says, (And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.) (Al-Israa’ 17: 32)

The sin becomes heinous when it comes to committing incest. It is the most serious offense and enormity in the Sight of Allah, the Almighty.

Therefore, a true Muslim should steer clear of any temptations that might drag him into disobeying Allah. If one is, however, overwhelmed by Satanic temptations, then he should hasten to forward sincere repentance to Allah. After that he should strive hard to do as many righteous deeds as he can, recite the Glorious Qur’an over and again, attending religious lectures and keep accompanying those who will help him remember Allah and the Day of Judgment. Allah Almighty says: (And those who cry not unto any other god along with Allah, nor take the life which Allah hath forbidden save in (course of) justice, nor commit adultery and whoso doeth this shall pay the penalty. The doom will be doubled for him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein disdained for ever. Save him who repenteth and believeth and doth righteous work; as for such, Allah will change their evil deeds to good deeds. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.) (Al-Furqan 25: 68-70)

To curb this heinous crime if it is rampant in a society, the basic procedures should start with Islamic education by warning against the enormity of this sin and its evil consequences in the Hereafter in addition to the negative social and psychological consequences. We should follow the Islamic teachings which require taking the necessary cautions in the relations between the opposite sexes even if they are mahram (unmarriageable relatives) as long as temptation is feared. For instance, Islam orders the parents to separate their children in beds when they reach the age of discretion. `Amr ibn Shu`ayb narrated from his father on the authority of his grandfather that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Order your children to pray at the age of seven, hit them to do so at the age of ten, and separate them (the boys from the girls) in their beds.” (Reported by Ahmad, Abu Dawud and al-Hakim)

Moreover, it is the responsibility of the society to fight against all forms of moral corruption and indecency and ban all means that incite desires and call for immorality.

May Allah guide you to the straight path and direct you to that which pleases Him, Amen.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar

as well from the same site
Title

Why Is Incestuous Marriage Forbidden?

Question

Respected scholars, as-salamu `alaykum. Could you please shed light on the wisdom behind the prohibition of incestuous marriage in the Islamic Shari`ah? Jazakum Allahu khayran.

Date

11/Mar/2007

Name of Counsellor

IOL Shari`ah Researchers

Topic

Marriage

Answer

Wa`alaykum as-salamu wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Brother, thanks for your question.
Incestuous relations are totally against the natural instinct of human beings. The relationship between close relatives should be based on respect, love, and kindness. Incestuous marriage is instinctively abhorrent to people of sound nature and is detrimental to the fabric of the family, which is the basis of society.

The eminent Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi wrote about this matter in his well-known book, The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam:
It is permanently haram for a Muslim man to marry a woman who belongs to one of the following categories:
1. The father's wife, whether divorced or widowed. During the period of jahiliyyah (pre-Islamic era of Ignorance) such marriages were allowed. Then Islam prohibited them, for once a woman is married to a man's father she acquires the status of his mother, and this prohibition is out of honor and respect for the father. Moreover, as this inviolable prohibition leaves no room for sexual attraction between the son and his step-mother, they are able to develop a relationship of respect and honor.
2. The mother, including the grandmothers on both sides.
3. The daughter, including the granddaughters from the son or daughter.
4. The sister, including the half- and step-sisters.
5. The paternal aunt, whether she is the real, half-, or step-sister of the father.
6. The maternal aunt, whether she is the real, half-, or step-sister of the father.
7. The brother's daughter, i.e., his niece.
8. The sister's daughter, i.e., his niece.
All these female blood-relatives are a man's muharramat and he is mahram to his corresponding female relatives. Marriage to any mahram whomsoever is permanently prohibited. The reasons for this prohibition are as follows.
a. Entertaining any sexual thoughts concerning such close relatives as one's mother, sister, and daughter is instinctively abhorrent to human nature; there are even certain animals which avoid mating with such closely-related animals. The respect a man feels for his aunts is like the respect he has for his mother, and likewise uncles are regarded as fathers.
b. Since the family must live together in intimacy and privacy but without incestuous relations, the Shari`ah intends to cut at the roots of any sexual attraction among such close relatives.
c. Since there is natural love and affection among such close blood relatives, the intent of the Shari`ah is to expand the circle of love and kinship by prohibiting incest and thereby directing the man's search for women outside the family. Thus each marriage extends the sphere of love, bringing new people within this ever-expanding network of affection: [And He has put love and mercy between you] (Ar-Rum 30:21).
d. The natural sentiments of love and affection between a man and the above-mentioned female relatives must be kept strong forever. If marriage were permitted between such relatives, it would cause jealousies, dissensions, and the disruption of families, destroying the very sentiments of love and affection which give cohesiveness and permanence to the family structure.
e. The offspring of marriages to such close blood relatives would most probably be defective and weak. Moreover, if physical or mental defects are present in the members of a family, they would become more pronounced among the children of such marriages.
f. The woman needs someone to champion her rights and support her case against her husband, especially when relations between the two of them become strained. If those women who could defend her became rivals, how would this be possible?

marriage between cousins, doesn't fall into that category, I am neither condoning nor condemning it, but you need to delineate your understanding of the terms. Your mere observation of an event in your small town doesn't necessarily denote it is a direct result of cousins marrying vs the same event happening in the general population (see above abstract) & You shouldn't make that a comparison to that of inbred children.. I think your understanding and this other fellow's is slightly skewed on the matter!

all the best

no I am not a fan of relative marriage because then the families are the main purpose pushing for the marriage and they will be too involved. I understand its halal but i personally don't favor it

i dont why people see marriage between cousins so abhorrent...if you think about it, cousins are 2 different kids from 2 different families...like any other marriage really

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed

i dont why people see marriage between cousins so abhorrent...if you think about it, cousins are 2 different kids from 2 different families...like any other marriage really

They are still related, and it can lead to defects (or at least, thats what is known around my area) and I will get some sources for this, I'll Edit this when I have them, I will try to get 3+.

format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

a
marriage between cousins, doesn't fall into that category, I am neither condoning nor condemning it, but you need to delineate your understanding of the terms. Your mere observation of an event in your small town doesn't necessarily denote it is a direct result of cousins marrying vs the same event happening in the general population (see above abstract) & You shouldn't make that a comparison to that of inbred children.. I think your understanding and this other fellow's is slightly skewed on the matter!

all the best

I am not making observatinions "isolated to just my small town". I define incest as relations between relatives closer than second cousins. Some states here will let cousins marry, while others prohibit it. Three states that permit it only allow it if the woman presents documentation that she is sterilized. The Appalachian region of the US startes in Maine and extends down to northern Alabama/Georgia. These are mountainous areas that are for some people very isolating. Hence the incest culture. I have posted a link from ABC news that did a piece on the region. Read it and learn about the area before you think I am just going by observation in my "small town". Actually I live in a small city population 50,000.


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=5922943&page=1