I am curious. In Malaysia we usually fast from around 5.40am to about 7.20pm. I remember when I was in the UK (studying) I decided to fast and it was from about 3.30am to about 9 something pm. I managed about 3 days and could not complete very much.
With Ramadhan coming soon, I am curious about those who fast near the artic circle. When the day stretches for so long, is it based on hours or strictly according to daylight? If it is, I suppose it evens out when the fasting month occurs in the winter months, very short days. What of those who live in areas that the sun does not set, or the fasting month happens when the sun does not rise?
then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and [wants] for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful.
Perhaps then, there is also the possibility of replacing the month to where the daylight is not so long, provided that it is done before the next ramadhan? I mean, these are extreme situations. So perhaps there can be choices, like prayers while on travel. You are given the flexibility. It will feel odd, I suppose.
Of course if we are replacing the fast we missed, we must be aware to avoid those days we are prohibited to fast.
Last edited by greenhill; 06-25-2013 at 05:18 PM.
Reason: some after thought...
Yup! During Ramadhan at University in the UK. Fasting month in June. At least at uni we had cooking facilities. Fasted with another Malaysian muslim. Could not do anymore than a few days.. Then, after Eid, I heard that we could do equivalent times, sort of, but I wasn't sure. Never really found out. But now on the forum, I can. Only have to ask
The issue of fasting times other than local times is a very serious one and not to be taken lightly or applied at one's own discretion. There must be extreme circumstances that make scholars get together to consider the facts and issue a verdict. As such, there are none that apply to the UK. Here, there'll be a 18-19 hour fast, and in the longest days, it will be 19-20 hours. Whenever Ramadan has come in midsummer here, people have always fasted those days, without the issue of fasting "other" times ever entering the equation, and they will continue to do so .
As the links brother Muhammad posted have alluded to, it is not standard practice by everyone in the Scandinavian/Nordic countries to fast Makkah times. Many scholars say if there is no sunrise/sunset, or the time period is so short so as to not fit in iftaar/suhoor/maghrib/ishaa/fajr, then the nearest country with a defined sunrise sunset time to allow time for the meals and prayers, should be followed, and until such a point is reached, fasting should be performed according to local time. So you will find Scandinavians who prefer to fast 21 or 22 hours etc, because they do not believe following Makkah time is justified. And some who don't believe following Makkah time is justified, will, when sunrise/sunset are too close, follow the time of the nearest country with sunrise/sunset.
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
Perhaps then, there is also the possibility of replacing the month to where the daylight is not so long, provided that it is done before the next ramadhan?
No, because then you have not fasted Ramadaan. That is very important. Who would sacrifice their entire month, just so they could have some comfort? Part of our reward, is for the hunger and thirst we feel. Yet if we try to avoid that, then what is the point? All who witness the month are meant to fast it, not fast other months in place of it. The ayah says, if you are ill or on a journey, then you can fast other days in place of what you missed because of those specified reasons.
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
You are given the flexibility. It will feel odd, I suppose.
We cannot apply our own flexibility. Whenever people apply their own flexibility in matters of deen, without referring to those of knowledge, mistakenly thinking that it is ok to do so, this has the potential to result in corruption of the deen or people going astray.
Shaytaan will try to tempt us and daunt us that the fast will be so long, it'll be so hot, it's so hard. Lets not give in to that. Those who have the longest fasts, also get the benefit of shorter fasts the other end of the year. Those who have longer fasts, may, and Allah knows best, also get more reward. Neither fast, is as long as that of the one who has nothing to eat.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
[...] if they live in the Lappland (welcome to fast 24 hours every day a month!)
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
Sister herb, that would be fasting a whole month!
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Exactly! It would mean that Muslims could not survive in certain parts of the world.
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Muhammad, what I meant to say is that if Muslims had to abide by the daylight hours of their country (as some posters seem to have suggested), they simply would not be able to survive the month of Ramadan in certain parts of the world, where such ruling would mean not being able to break the fast for the entire month.
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
I think that fasting 24 hours daily is bad to yourself!
Just to clarify, that such a situation would never arise, even in places where the sun never sets, in fact it is impossible for it to ever arise. It is erroneous to think that any Muslim would ever end up having to have a 30 day fast where the sun never sets, if there was no dispensation to follow the time of a nearby country. Such suppositions come from looking at one aspect of fasting in isolation, namely dawn and sunset. And therefore concluding that if there wasn't dispensation to follow a nearby country's time, such people would have suhoor (pre-dawn meal) on the first of Ramadan and their next meal would be iftaar at sunset on 29th/30th Ramadan, therefore not being able to eat for a whole month.
When we fast, part of the rules of fasting, is that each day, we are to have suhoor and iftaar. Even when the sun shines all day, all five prayers have to be prayed, not just Zhuhr/'Asr. An authentic hadeeth states that suhoor should be partaken until the Fajr adhaan (Sahih al-Bukhari 622, 623). Do we not pray Fajr daily, even if the sun is risen for sixth months? Another authentic hadeeth states that the difference between the fast of the Muslims and that of the people of the book is that we partake in suhoor (Sunan an-Nasa'i 2166). If we fast for 30 days continuously, then that means for 29 days we did not eat suhoor, which is against this hadeeth, and against others.
Therefore such a situation could never arise, not even hypothetically, even if the sun never set. The fact that we are to have suhoor and iftaar daily for the 29 or 30 days of Ramadan would then lead scholars to consider the best times to follow for this.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
Many points brought up. The difficulty is in the conclusion. Drawing from the above points, and the additional one mentioned by Insaanah
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
The fact that we are to have suhoor and iftaar daily for the 29 or 30 days of Ramadan
...is a worthy point to note that fasting then cannot be for more than a day as you have to break fast.
Which correlates to the story about 'a day being like a year' (when Dajjal appears) and the question of how to do the prayers when the times are stretched, to which the prophet (s.a.w.) replied words to the effect of measure the time and estimate when you need to do the 5 prayers...
On my above comments and questions, I never had the intention to propagate anything against islamic teachings but when things are highlighted with possible alternatives, then explore it as it does NOT mean that we are looking to 'cop-out' but in search of 'truth'. If we are not able to conclude because of lack of understanding, we put that 'caveat', that it is not a 'fatwa' but just our thoughts on the matter.
I really don't understand why the month of ramadan has to change, why do we follow the moon sighting? why can't Ramadan only be in the winter time?
I really can't fast in the summer time because it's too dang hard, longer hours are never good.
That's the hidden beauty of lunar months as it is not fixed. Imagine if you happen to live in Australia, It is great for people living in the northern hemisphere as they will always fast shorter hours, but those living in the southern hemisphere will always fast longer hours. With it being lunar, in the long run the hours will average out. If you benefit from shorter hours now, in time you will 'pay back' through the longer hours and vice versa...
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Then, after Eid, I heard that we could do equivalent times, sort of, but I wasn't sure. Never really found out. But now on the forum, I can. Only have to ask
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