The Palin Idolatry

format_quote Originally Posted by doorster

3 sites are on top of my hate-list (joint number one)

1) Alkauther academy
1) islamqa
1) sunni path

Umm... you do know that islamqa and sunnipath preach very different things, right?

format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah

Umm... you do know that islamqa and sunnipath preach very different things, right?

Yes, I do know.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine

Quickly browsed here, and forgive me for my brevity ..

the 'moon/crescent moon' symbol came with the ottomans, has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam or God.. actually has a few anecdotal stories, one which was the invention of croissants, I read somewhere it was a way to vex Muslims by eating their Symbol.. well they can eat or stick it on toilet stalls the world over for all we care..
a Crescent moon doesn't symbolize Islam nor was it used at all during the time of the prophet or the empires that followed, until the last one (ottomans)

and Allah knows best

It's an ancient arabic pagan symbol used to denote Tanit and other Godesses and gods of the pre-islamic era. It was a Sassinian symbol of power.

I wont venture into how it became attached.

format_quote Originally Posted by barney

It's an ancient arabic pagan symbol used to denote Tanit and other Godesses and gods of the pre-islamic era.

I wont venture into how it became attached.

that is as irrelevant as an egyptian Ankh *key of life* is to the cross...
fact that the crescent moon wasn't adopted as a symbol until the Ottomans!
and where as the cross semblance to the Ankh or not has some weighty value to any christian, the crescent moon means nothing to any Muslim...

Well nope, the early Caliphs had it as a symbol. Political rather than religious, although somewhere the mix of politics and theocracy blended it in. The Ottomans started actually putting it on Mosques.

The Ankh has a loop at the top as i recall, but I would imagine that since it represents life that the symbol may well have travelled and got caught up with christianity. Jesus was executed on a stake, not a cross.
When creating a religion, always...thats always....buy into as many of the surrounding religions and cultures. It makes the transition easier.

that is not true, early caliphs didn't have it as a symbol!
and would love for you to make the connection between that symbol and theology? especially using the Quran!

your dates are off by centuries.. Would really love to make you right as I know the whole marrow of your personal beliefs rests on it.. But again *annoying buzzer* you are wrong

you may read of the Ottomans and their symbol here on your very favorite source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

when making connections, try to make the end, come as close as possible to the beginning, so we are not left as usual with your posts to fill in massive gaps!

all the best

this should take care of your 'history knowledge or lack thereof' once and for all

Name of Questioner
Abdulraheem - Palestine

Title
Islam and the Moon God

Date
11/Sep/2008

Question
A non-Muslim asked me this question on YouTube and I would like a specific and detailed response to the topic at hand, jazakumullah.


Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of pagan moon worship. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. Hubal was a moon god. Muslims confess that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kabah about 400 years before Muhammad. This in fact is the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world.



Topic
Islamic Creed

Name of Counselor
Shahul Hameed



Answer


Salam, Abdul Raheem.


Thank you for your question.

Some non-Muslims have been bending over backwards to denigrate Islam in hatever way possible. Their attempt to attribute a pagan origin to Islam is a part of their whole scheme of maligning Islam by any means. To this end, they have claimed that the idol Hubal worshipped by the ancient pagans of Arabia was the same as 'the Allah of Muslims'.

As a matter of fact, we have very little record of the pre-Islamic religion in Arabia. Whatever we know comes to us through isolated statements of Greek writers, poetical compilations of the old poets, and the few anecdotes and traditions embedded in later Islamic literature. Some information may also be gathered from polemical allusions in the Quran.

But whatever be the true nature of the pre-Islamic paganism, the one thing we know for certain is that it was Islam that dealt a death blow to it. Islam was able to wipe out from Arabia all traces of idolatry and pagan practices.

It must be clear to any sensible person that no religion has conducted such a relentless campaign against idolatry and paganism as Islam. And yet the missionary wants to depict Hubal as "the Lord of the Kabah". They allege that the crescent moon became a Muslim symbol because of its connection to "Hubal the Moon God".

According to Philip Hitti, the author of the well-known History of the Arabs, Hubal was a Moabite god known as Baal brought into Arabia:

The tradition in Ibn Hisham, which makes 'Amr ibn-Luhayy the importer of this idol from Moab or Mesopotamia, may have a kernel of truth in so far as it retains a memory of the Aramaic origin of the deity.At the conquest of Makkah by Muhammad, Hubal shared the lot of the other idols and was destroyed. (Quoted by Mohamad Elfie Nieshaem Juferi in his article on "Hubal in the Worship of Pre-Islamic Arab Consciousness" from Philip Hitti, History of the Arabs, p. 100, last accessed Sept. 1, 2008)

This means that a tribal god like Hubal could never have been elevated to the status of the One and Only Creator of the whole universe, Allah; but a god worshipped by the Moabites and later by the Quraish in Makkah. One may also note Hitti's statement that Hubal was destroyed once for all with the other idols at the conquest of Makkah.

It is noteworthy that the name Allah can be understood to be the same as Elah or Alah of the Hebrew Bible. The word for God in Genesis 1:1 is elohim, which is essentially a plural form of a more basic root-Hebrew word for God, eloh.

Furthermore, the Arabic translation of the Jewish Bible uses the name "Allah" to refer to God. Here is the transliteration of Genesis 1:1:

" Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawat wa al-Ard . . ." ( = In the beginning God (Allahu) created the heavens and the earth.) (Abu Iman Abd ar-Rahmn Robert Squires, The word "Allah in the Arabic Bible, last accessed Sept. 1, 2008)

The foregoing means that Allah is the One and Only God worshipped by the followers of Abraham, Moses and other Old Testament prophets.

It is true that a few Muslim countries — mostly non-Arab — have the crescent moon on their flags. But this has nothing to do with Islam. Indeed, the star and crescent symbol are very ancient, dating back to early Sumerian civilization. And long after the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) the Ottomans adopted the crescent and the star into their battle standard; though it had nothing to do with Islam.

It should be noted that the twin sources of Islam — the Quran and the Sunnah — do not mention such a symbol; and the flag of the Prophet was a black and white one inscribed with "Nasrun min Allah," "With the help of Allah."

Since the Ottoman times, there has been the public perception that the star and crescent is a symbol of Islam and Muslims, and so it came to be used in decorative arts and Saracen architecture, jewelry, and so on. Hence, they can be seen on the top of mosque buildings in countries like India and Pakistan.

It should be emphasized that Islamic scholars do not approve of the use of the crescent moon and star or any such figure as a "symbol" of Islam. Islam has never adopted any symbol, and so there is no sense in Muslims adopting any such icon.

It was possible that the crescent was on top of the Kabah some 400 years before the Prophet, though there is no record except some people's dubious claim; but the question is whether the Prophet allowed its use; and the answer is emphatically, no.

Remember that the first thing the Prophet did on re-entering Makkah after the Hijrah (the Prophet's migration to Madiah), was to break all the idols in the Kabah, including that of Hubal.

We have indeed no evidence to say that Hubal was a moon god either.

Islam as taught by Prophet Muhammad has been consistently and strongly opposed to the use of all sorts of idols, icons and symbols that may lead the believers away from the worship of the One and Only God.

I hope this answers your question. Please keep in touch.

Salam.

Useful Links:

Is Crescent Moon Symbol of Islam?



The Founder of Allah?



Allah in Pre-Islamic History



God… or Allah?


http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1217798706064

and for further reading simply follow the links...

format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine

this should take care of your 'history knowledge or lack thereof' once and for all

Name of Questioner
Abdulraheem - Palestine

Title
Islam and the Moon God

Date
11/Sep/2008

Question
A non-Muslim asked me this question on YouTube and I would like a specific and detailed response to the topic at hand, jazakumullah.


Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of pagan moon worship. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. Hubal was a moon god. Muslims confess that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kabah about 400 years before Muhammad. This in fact is the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world.



Topic
Islamic Creed

Name of Counselor
Shahul Hameed



Answer


Salam, Abdul Raheem.


Thank you for your question.

Some non-Muslims have been bending over backwards to denigrate Islam in hatever way possible. Their attempt to attribute a pagan origin to Islam is a part of their whole scheme of maligning Islam by any means. To this end, they have claimed that the idol Hubal worshipped by the ancient pagans of Arabia was the same as 'the Allah of Muslims'.

As a matter of fact, we have very little record of the pre-Islamic religion in Arabia. Whatever we know comes to us through isolated statements of Greek writers, poetical compilations of the old poets, and the few anecdotes and traditions embedded in later Islamic literature. Some information may also be gathered from polemical allusions in the Quran.

But whatever be the true nature of the pre-Islamic paganism, the one thing we know for certain is that it was Islam that dealt a death blow to it. Islam was able to wipe out from Arabia all traces of idolatry and pagan practices.

It must be clear to any sensible person that no religion has conducted such a relentless campaign against idolatry and paganism as Islam. And yet the missionary wants to depict Hubal as "the Lord of the Kabah". They allege that the crescent moon became a Muslim symbol because of its connection to "Hubal the Moon God".

According to Philip Hitti, the author of the well-known History of the Arabs, Hubal was a Moabite god known as Baal brought into Arabia:

The tradition in Ibn Hisham, which makes 'Amr ibn-Luhayy the importer of this idol from Moab or Mesopotamia, may have a kernel of truth in so far as it retains a memory of the Aramaic origin of the deity.At the conquest of Makkah by Muhammad, Hubal shared the lot of the other idols and was destroyed. (Quoted by Mohamad Elfie Nieshaem Juferi in his article on "Hubal in the Worship of Pre-Islamic Arab Consciousness" from Philip Hitti, History of the Arabs, p. 100, last accessed Sept. 1, 2008)

This means that a tribal god like Hubal could never have been elevated to the status of the One and Only Creator of the whole universe, Allah; but a god worshipped by the Moabites and later by the Quraish in Makkah. One may also note Hitti's statement that Hubal was destroyed once for all with the other idols at the conquest of Makkah.

It is noteworthy that the name Allah can be understood to be the same as Elah or Alah of the Hebrew Bible. The word for God in Genesis 1:1 is elohim, which is essentially a plural form of a more basic root-Hebrew word for God, eloh.

Furthermore, the Arabic translation of the Jewish Bible uses the name "Allah" to refer to God. Here is the transliteration of Genesis 1:1:

" Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawat wa al-Ard . . ." ( = In the beginning God (Allahu) created the heavens and the earth.) (Abu Iman Abd ar-Rahmn Robert Squires, The word "Allah in the Arabic Bible, last accessed Sept. 1, 2008)

The foregoing means that Allah is the One and Only God worshipped by the followers of Abraham, Moses and other Old Testament prophets.

It is true that a few Muslim countries — mostly non-Arab — have the crescent moon on their flags. But this has nothing to do with Islam. Indeed, the star and crescent symbol are very ancient, dating back to early Sumerian civilization. And long after the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) the Ottomans adopted the crescent and the star into their battle standard; though it had nothing to do with Islam.

It should be noted that the twin sources of Islam — the Quran and the Sunnah — do not mention such a symbol; and the flag of the Prophet was a black and white one inscribed with "Nasrun min Allah," "With the help of Allah."

Since the Ottoman times, there has been the public perception that the star and crescent is a symbol of Islam and Muslims, and so it came to be used in decorative arts and Saracen architecture, jewelry, and so on. Hence, they can be seen on the top of mosque buildings in countries like India and Pakistan.

It should be emphasized that Islamic scholars do not approve of the use of the crescent moon and star or any such figure as a "symbol" of Islam. Islam has never adopted any symbol, and so there is no sense in Muslims adopting any such icon.

It was possible that the crescent was on top of the Kabah some 400 years before the Prophet, though there is no record except some people's dubious claim; but the question is whether the Prophet allowed its use; and the answer is emphatically, no.

Remember that the first thing the Prophet did on re-entering Makkah after the Hijrah (the Prophet's migration to Madiah), was to break all the idols in the Kabah, including that of Hubal.

We have indeed no evidence to say that Hubal was a moon god either.

Islam as taught by Prophet Muhammad has been consistently and strongly opposed to the use of all sorts of idols, icons and symbols that may lead the believers away from the worship of the One and Only God.

I hope this answers your question. Please keep in touch.

Salam.

Useful Links:

Is Crescent Moon Symbol of Islam?



The Founder of Allah?



Allah in Pre-Islamic History



God… or Allah?


http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1217798706064

and for further reading simply follow the links...

Yes yes Skye. I already know all that.

You appear to be labouring under the impression that I am saying that Allah is an adaption of a pagan moon God?

Anythings possible, but the Cresent moon is more of a political symbol. The Sassanids and many other pre and post islamic states had it as a symbol, not of God but of statehood or on banners and flags in battle.
Islamic battle flags were usually plain black or Green,(the prophets favorite colour by all accounts).

So unless you are claiming that the Sassinids, early caliphs and pagan worshippers dont actually exist,(which knowing you, wouldnt surprise me)
Then I'm afraid you will just have to get off the haughty horse on this one.

format_quote Originally Posted by barney

Yes yes Skye. I already know all that.

You appear to be labouring under the impression that I am saying that Allah is an adaption of a pagan moon God?

Anythings possible, but the Cresent moon is more of a political symbol. The Sassanids and many other pre and post islamic states had it as a symbol, not of God but of statehood or on banners and flags in battle.
Islamic battle flags were usually plain black or Green,(the prophets favorite colour by all accounts).

So unless you are claiming that the Sassinids, early caliphs and pagan worshippers dont actually exist,(which knowing you, wouldnt surprise me)
Then I'm afraid you will just have to get off the haughty horse on this one.

DO you have proof from an ISLAMIC source that early caliphs adopted that symbol even for political reasons? The article already defines to you, Allat, Al3oozha, Manat and Hubal were not moon Gods, I would like unadulterated history from those who lived and wrote it, not from the secondary opinion not founded on proof or certainty of folks such as yourself or the ilk of Daniel Pipes, to perpetuate a personal agenda, and pls don't water down your beliefs, only a couple of posts ago you were linking it to both theology and politics!
Sassinids, Savids, anything Persian really has nothing to do with early Muslims, anymore than the Ottoman's many centuries later adopting a pagan symbol for their flag.
You want to believe the prophet and the caliphs walked around with a moon flag, you are entitled to your beliefs, but don't pose it on here as facts!

thanks

All the best