A certain post on this forum prompted this question in mind.
If you were traveling and you came upon what you knew to be a small pagan shrine made of sticks and stones, assuming noone is around, would you destroy it?
My thoughts are that if there are many of it's followers around, destroying it outright may make them distance themselves from Islam in anger. So, with the mission of spreading Islam in mind, I would not destroy it.
Yet if noone was around, I would certainly destroy it. It's presence serves as a misguidance to the people around it. Indeed, non-muslims may gnash their teeth at such an act but I act according to the commands of Allah and not them.
Of course people would say "what if I did the same to your shrines?" Well, Allah would destroy you in this life or the next, so I wouldnt worry. The little stick and stone idol on the otherhand is powerless.
What are your thoughts? Muslim brothers and sisters?
come to think of it, is anyone, on such forums, who (s)he purports to be?
I think both are, but I don't think any of them would actually go about destroying a shrine even if no one was nearby, no offence Anti and Dawud.
Similar situation to Israel, lotsa shouting but no fighting coming from Muslims here..
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 03-05-2009 at 09:38 PM.
I wouldn't destroy it. I don't see how that could be beneficial to anyone; at most it will just anger the followers of that religion (which is really bad for dawah purposes) and at the least, noone will notice so noone will care - I will have exerted energy and wasted time over something completely insignificant which carried zero benefit to anyone on the planet.
Either way, it wouldn't fit in with giving dawah (one outcome does the exact opposite and pushes them further from Islam; the other doesn't bring them any closer to it...so why bother? I know the Prophet Ibrahim did something similar but there was actually a point being made - in this example, it's just: ''No one is looking...quick let's smash it to bits!''
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
I wouldn't destroy it. I don't see how that could be beneficial to anyone; at most it will just anger the followers of that religion (which is really bad for dawah purposes) and at the least, noone will notice so noone will care - I will have exerted energy and wasted time over something completely insignificant which carried zero benefit to anyone on the planet.
Either way, it wouldn't fit in with giving dawah (one outcome does the exact opposite and pushes them further from Islam; the other doesn't bring them any closer to it...so why bother? I know the Prophet Ibrahim did something similar but there was actually a point being made - in this example, it's just: ''No one is looking...quick let's smash it to bits!''
assalaamu alaykum,
so the sahabah were wrong to destroy idols and Rasoolullah (saws) was wrong to send them to do so?
akhi, i know you pray at my local masjid (still dont know who you are in real life yet but you said before you pray at masjid taqwa) so let me borrow you some books on seerah so you can read this for yourself from the scholars.
re churches, as i understand it the rulership of islam is established first, but then they are allowed to exist aslong as they have no external symbols of disbelief like crosses etc on the outside of the building.
so the sahabah were wrong to destroy idols and Rasoolullah (saws) was wrong to send them to do so?
....
You misunderstood me. The Sahabah and the Prophets were making a point out of doing what they were doing when they were doing it (I don't have a problem with them doing what they did, since they actually had a reason).
In this example that AntiKarateKid gave there is no point or reason; it's just asking would you smash the shrine to bits of noone was looking. Based solely on that, the answer, from me, is no. I don't believe I have to smash someone's religious icons in order to convince them Islam is the truth - I'd much rather talk with them about their religion and convince them with words and dialogue.
Even Prophet Ibrahim spoke with the idol worshippers - so unless this example involved me speaking with the followers after the smashing of their shrine, there'd be no point in doing so.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
hmmmm can you prove that he is one of us and not one of you?
U have made a point here. Ppls acting as muslims here and quoting prophets for all unislamic acts of destroying places of worship can actually turn out to be kuffar like Us, giving us a bad name. How sad, will now doves start playing hawks to malign them?:'(:'(:'( or hawks are playing doves?
Last edited by justahumane; 03-06-2009 at 01:36 PM.
no I will not first because they will not think about it from a religious view...they will just got mad because I destroy something belong to them
so, talking to them, giving dawah is better, because they might get satisfied and destroy it themselves...that will be more effective
but do it by force will make it even worse....they will insist on their stubbornness and ignorance and will hate Islam even if they knew later that it is the right path to follow, because they will keep feeling that their honor was attacked one day by Islam.
i personally wouldnt destroy it myself, but if its like for example how some taliban members destroyed a shrine this week, then i say go them!
Our Lord! Verily, we have heard the call of one calling to Faith: 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed.
Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and expiate from us our evil deeds, and make us die (in the state of righteousness) along with Al-Abrar
Our Lord! Verily, we have heard the call of one calling to Faith: 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed.
Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and expiate from us our evil deeds, and make us die (in the state of righteousness) along with Al-Abrar
Idols and cultural artifacts are different animals.. But the definition isn't a liberal one.
Muslims would have destroyed pharonic artifacts subsequent to the conquest of Egypt, but that wasn't the case was it? And we are to assume the that early khalifs followed Islam better than we are considering the conquest of Amro Bin Al-Aas was in the 20th year hijri.. that is of course as a remote example to all the places they have been. Idols in Mecca however being actively worshipped is a different story.. one wonders indeed what would have become of christianity if they didn't venrate wooden crosses and consecrated men.. but then again, if they didn't, we wouldn't have an example to give for our analogies!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
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