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  1. #1
    Thinker's Avatar
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    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/programm...ma/3799373.stm

    I presume some of you watched this programme last night? And I am sure we will all see it from different points of view. I suspect that for the many of the viewers the dominating image will be of the Muslim guy screaming at the reporter and the message relayed from Sheikh Mohammed Bakri. I can’t believe that those images are helping anyone of us in any way and I wonder why the Muslim community don’t get their act together to prevent these idiots from providing fuel to those who seek to show Islam and Muslims as negative and threatening.

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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    do you know who bakri was employed by and who or what he is?
    do you know what world affairs forum is for?

    edit:
    N.B. (reply to the post below this)
    bakri, a qutbi, was HT chief in Saudi Arabia and later in UK then of al muhajiroun. He declared terrorism on UK tube an Islamic act. and he loved and praised another man who contracted for CIA in Afghanistan during soviet occupation and later became a bogeyman (namely osama bin laden) and was so impressed with alleged exploits/achievements of osama that he declared himself a salafi in honor of osama
    Last edited by doorster; 02-28-2009 at 12:09 AM.

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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Quote Originally Posted by doorster View Post
    do you know who bakri was employed by and who or what he is?
    do you know what world affairs forum is for?


    what are you talking about?

    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Abu Abdillah

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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Quote Originally Posted by Thinker View Post
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/programm...ma/3799373.stm

    I presume some of you watched this programme last night? And I am sure we will all see it from different points of view. I suspect that for the many of the viewers the dominating image will be of the Muslim guy screaming at the reporter and the message relayed from Sheikh Mohammed Bakri. I can’t believe that those images are helping anyone of us in any way and I wonder why the Muslim community don’t get their act together to prevent these idiots from providing fuel to those who seek to show Islam and Muslims as negative and threatening.
    i watched it, it wasnt very good.

    in my opinion this was a kite flying operation, to see how the muslims would respond to such a change in policy and then if get a good or neutral response will go ahead and if not then can just blame it on media exageration.

    but overall i think the program was trying to direct and lead govt policy not inform upon it.

    for example, on sheikh khalid yasin, i happen to know him quite well and his views are not contraversial in the slightest amongst the muslim community.

    if you start banning people for being against homosexuality then you will ban every muslim as any muslim who doesnt agree homosexuality is a sin has disagreed with Allah and his messenger (pbuh) and become a kaffir (disbeliever)
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Abu Abdillah

    Submitting to none but Allah

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    Uthman's Avatar
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    I watched the programme. I thought that the Muslim guy screaming at the reporter made for good entertainment whilst Bakri's message was rather more worrying. As for Abdur-Raheem Green, his views represent those of mainstream Islam so if he is going to be labelled an extremist, then we all are.

    By the way, most of us now are considered to be extremists by the government, in accordance with their new criteria. A Muslim is now an extremist if:

    • They advocate a caliphate, a pan-Islamic state encompassing many countries.

    • They promote sharia law.

    • They believe in jihad, or armed resistance, anywhere in the world. This would include armed resistance by Palestinians against the Israeli military.

    • They argue that Islam bans homosexuality and that it is a sin against Allah.

    • They fail to condemn the killing of British soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    I can tick at least the first four points. Of course, Jihad is not synonymous with armed resistance (Thinker, I think you are also aware of this) but I'm honestly fed up with trying to explain it's true meaning. It grows tiresome.

    To be honest, I think it was never a good idea for Muslims to come to this country. The fundamental values of Islam and those of the west are just too different.
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

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    Ar-RaYYan's Avatar
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    not another anti-islam programme? i thought that was channel 4's job
    anywas i want to watch it! can anyone give me the link please?
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Dear Allah. I pray that whoever reads this message shall have your comfort, joy, peace, love, & guidance. I may not know their troubles, but you do. Please keep protecting us. Ameen.

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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    I don't see this one as an anti-Islam programme. I feel it was more balanced, although it still made some mistakes (e.g. portraying Abdur-Raheem Green as extremist).

    Link:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Quote Originally Posted by Ar-RaYYan View Post
    not another anti-islam programme? i thought that was channel 4's job
    anywas i want to watch it! can anyone give me the link please?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ritish_Second/

  11. #9
    doorster's Avatar
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    ....
    Last edited by doorster; 02-20-2009 at 07:54 PM.

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    Ar-RaYYan's Avatar
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    jazzakallah khair both Osman and doorster
    inshallah i will watch it soon
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Dear Allah. I pray that whoever reads this message shall have your comfort, joy, peace, love, & guidance. I may not know their troubles, but you do. Please keep protecting us. Ameen.

  14. #11
    Musaafirah's Avatar
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Why do I get the feeling this programme's been heavily edited?
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    thanks, will watch it now

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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk View Post
    hook handed mullah? what is wrong with you that you mock someone injured helping the ummah? you sound more like you are talking like a sun reporter, not someone talking about your brother in islam.

    and your evidence is that because of some conspirasy theory allegations regarding obl, which are dubious at best you therefore say the same about someone else who supports him, very strange sense of logic. in regular opinion polls obl is one of the most popular men in the ummah, rightly or wrongly, are they all CIA agents also?

    i dont have to agree with what my brother is saying 100% to defend his honour from slanders such as your's, have a little respect for your brothers in islam even when you disagree with them.

    i happen to know many salafis and former members of al muhajiroon, omar bakri changed his aqeedah and manhaj after debates with various salafis, as far as i am aware he has never met obl so this allegation also holds no water like your others.
    So you lied when you disowned the hizb last time!
    as far as i am aware he has never met obl so this allegation also holds no water like your others
    today's neo-Nazis have never met Hitler yet he is idolized by them.

    using your logic, since I've never met Last Rasul Allah, sahaba e ikraam, Quid e Azam or Alaama Iqbal, I cant be admiring them or wanting them as my role models
    Last edited by doorster; 02-28-2009 at 12:10 AM.

  17. #14
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    I have been a member of this forum for almost three years. During this time I have been informed by Muslim members here that Islam is a peaceful religion. I have had no cause to disbelieve them.

    I do not watch the news on TV, so until I watched 'Panorama - Muslim First, British Second' just now I have never really watched live footage of Muslims participating in aggressive demonstrations and hateful speeches.

    This is a completely different Islam I have observed just now ...

    Right now I am feeling scared and disappointed.


    Peace
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Peace
    glo

    Here I stand.
    I can do no other.
    May God help me.
    Amen.

    Come, let us worship and bow down •
    and kneel before the Lord our Maker

    [Psalm 95]


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    doorster's Avatar
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    I have been a member of this forum for almost three years. During this time I have been informed by Muslim members here that Islam is a peaceful religion. I have had no cause to disbelieve them.

    I do not watch the news on TV, so until I watched 'Panorama - Muslim First, British Second' just now I have never really watched live footage of Muslims participating in aggressive demonstrations and hateful speeches.

    This is a completely different Islam I have observed just now ...

    Right now I am feeling scared and disappointed.


    Peace
    oh you poor thing! ^^ so you've proven to yourself that it is not retarded or ignorant or greedy or fame hungry individuals or agents provocateurs, but the Ideology of Islam that is at fault? oh well done (BBC Panorama)!
    Last edited by doorster; 03-16-2009 at 04:16 AM.

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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    ^ Well said.
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    If only I had checked myself
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Hi glo,

    Quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    until I watched 'Panorama - Muslim First, British Second' just now I have never really watched live footage of Muslims participating in aggressive demonstrations and hateful speeches.
    Do you have any reason to believe that these actions are acceptable in Islam? In fact, I bet that even though you're not a Muslim yourself, you can come up with Islamic evidences condemning their behaviour.
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

  22. #18
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Quote Originally Posted by doorster View Post
    oh you poor thang! ^^ so you've proven to yourself that it is not retared or ignorant or greedy or fame hungry individual or agents provocateurs, but the Ideology of Islam that is at fault? oh well done!
    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara View Post
    ^ Well said.
    Did I say anything of that kind???
    Please be kind enough to read my post again! I was merely taken my surprise by the different representation of Islam the programme introduced me to, and expressed this as it came into my head.
    At this stage I haven't proven anything to myself ... although your response, doorster, may give me another little morsel of evidence ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    Hi glo,
    Do you have any reason to believe that these actions are acceptable in Islam? In fact, I bet that even though you're not a Muslim yourself, you can come up with Islamic evidences condemning their behaviour.
    I realise that I posted my previous post in the emotional moment, just after having watched the Panorama programme.
    Clearly that wasn't a wise or productive thing to do!

    I think it may be time to take some time out ...

    Salaam :thankyou:
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Peace
    glo

    Here I stand.
    I can do no other.
    May God help me.
    Amen.

    Come, let us worship and bow down •
    and kneel before the Lord our Maker

    [Psalm 95]


  23. #19
    doorster's Avatar
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Panorama - Muslim... 02-22-2009 03:12 PM glo If I had hoped for somebody to reassure me about Islam, your post hasn't done much for it, doorster! Salaam
    wow! and ouch

    as if all my earlier posts on this and similar subjects and my constant sucking up to most of you via positive rep & PM messages is not enough. it seems to me that nothing short of my condemnation of Islam itself thus effective kufr/conversion/apostasy out of Islam will suffice!
    Last edited by doorster; 02-22-2009 at 03:33 PM.

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    Al-Zaara's Avatar
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    Re: Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    Quote Originally Posted by glo View Post
    I realise that I posted my previous post in the emotional moment,
    So did I! First you start by saying 3 years in this forum and being happy of the outcome basically, then suddenly one thing makes you feel scared and dissappointed! Scared? It made me feel baffled and hit my head on the desk. His post was sarcastic, I do like sarcasm, but it was everything I thought just other ways put. Straight to the point and that was the question I had in mind and that is a question you need to think about. Don't let emotions take over facts. But you can't possible have NOT known there DO exist people like that and actions like that. You don't have to see it. I've never seen anyone get beaten up although I know it happens.

    You see it (the bad sides) in your own religious people, in your religion's and its followers history. And you love you religion despite it all. Now apply that thinking in how it is for us.

    Anger and bashing, ain't scary as it may seem. It's just sad and pathetic.
    Panorama - Muslim First, British Second

    If only I had checked myself
    Guy who wrecked himself

    True leaders don't create followers...
    .... They create new leaders.


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