Could you tell me why the Palestinians have to recognize the zionist state's right...

format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb

I agree that both parties should make sacrifices. But should Palestinians just accept as sacrifice the ethnic cleanising what has continued last 61 years and what is continue every day - and continue also today?

Should Palestinians accept as sacrifice to give 78% of their historical homeland for zionists?

Should Palestinians accept as sacrifice illegal settlements to their own land? Zionists are calling them as "natural growth", not new settlements what they are building to confiscated lands of the West Bank and the East Jerusalem.

Should Palestinians accept as sacrifice that zionists will controll all of their borders to outside world for sake of security of zionists? What about security of Palestinians? Is it less important than the security of zionists?

Zionists have talked about authonomy of Palestine, not independency of Palestine. One more sacrifice what only Palestinians should accept? What if zionists would make sacrifice too and accept that they "state" too is not independent but just authonomy under some international/foreign ruler without own foreing policy and army?

Should just Palestinians accept as sacrifice that zionists are free to destroy they mosques and churches and cemeteries like they have done last 61 years?

If Palestinians should make all of these sacrifices for "peace", what kind of sacrifices zionists are ready to make then? I think nothing. What about kind of sacrifise that they will start to follow international laws as Geneva conventions? I would be surprises if they would make even one sacrifice at all.

Just as I would be just surprising, very surprising if they at some day will keep they promisings they have given during years. Who knows that they false promisings for peace talks are not similar than every others - already eaten.

They shouls accept two states both free of any settlements and checkpoints.

format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

Ah so the means justify the ends huh? I'll kick you child out of school and have mine take their place so he can grow into a lovely educated person.

Oh and drop the bomb argument WTP.

You and I well know the statistics behind the attacks. Around 60-80 people have been killed by Palestinian rockets throughout Israels entire history.

Israeli tanks, jets, and military has killed thousands of times more.

What's interesting is that you've revealed your true reason for support of Israel. Your opposition isn't moral, you just like the state.

Guess what? Your neighbors are eyeing your house right now. After they've kicked you out, I hear they're gonna turn it into a lovely residence with fancy furniture and a green lawn.

May Allah guide you.....

Yeah its bad, not really moral, but we can't change it, two states is the least of all evils.

format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

I'd say exposing the true facts and history of Israel without making it seem rosy would help the world get a spine and try to make a one state solution.

You know... like how it was for thousands of years before Jews suddenly discovered their destiny through the aid of post-WW2 pity (spits on ground).

It's not as one sided as Palis claim either.

format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

I'm not playing a game of he said this or they said that. Israel's military might and history of UN violations testify to their respect for their neighbors.

You yourself just admitted that it isn't moral to force out your neighbors. History shows that they coexisted for thousands of years.

But it isn't one side right? Sometimes I just don't understand people who can't admit that some issues might just actually be black and white. Always with the, its not as it seems contrarian attitude. Oh and I'm not speaking for the Palis, I'm speaking for what's right.

2 state solution is right, if possible 1947 borders, but I guess it's not.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran

lol - that would be great - but even 1967 borders might be a problem.

I know, Israelis won't give up their settlements, let alone East Jerusalem.
Hopefully Netanyahu will do bad economically and the left will return.
And anyway, it's entirely Egypt, Jordan, Syria's fault that Palis have gone from 1947 to what they have now, perhaps thouse countries should do something as well.

format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

Why give up on the one state solution? It is because of our forgiving attitude towards the Israeli's that the one state solution is out of the question. They think they can get away with anything.

Should we put out foot down together, disarm their more than 200 nukes they illegally developed, and return what belongs to their owners, peace would come eventually.

Instead of forcing a two state solution which will not ease resentment among the Palestinians for being forced out then forced to accept their conquerers as neighbors. Terrorists will still have ammo.

Why? Because pragmatics works and non-viable ideology doesn't.

format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

If more people adopt this view of yours, yes.

But if more people adopt my view, then it is certainly viable.

Yes, but considered the likelihood of both. Heck, Palis can't even get their Arab borthers to stand for them, they need swedish hippies!

format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

The arab public is with them. The arab governments are the ones who refuse to help.

Most arab nations are democracies how come the people never elect an openly anti-Israeli party?