Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture" (OP)
This was an interesting debate brought up on the other thread and unfortunately, it could not be elaborated since the thread went off topic.
Alright, now the thing is, ALL of us Muslims here DO mind when the western world calls us "terrorists" right? Be it because of their propaganda, or because of our acts (which is not the case) us Muslims HAVE had our reputation go down due to the actions done by the groups such the Taliban who perform sins in the name of OUR religion. Their actions DID make our religion come across as wrong and ever since then, the Western world never stopped calling us terrorists and till today we fight against this injustice as what they say is wrong and we are NOT terrorists although in the modern times (immediate present) only Muslims have had an "islamic group" who performed terror in the name of our religion (Taliban). In this aspect, the other religions come off as clean as they DO have terrorists, but hardly do they perform crime in the name of religion.
But look at us. Everytime we talk about the west, we ALWAYS go on like how shallow they are, how they are like public property, they have no shame and freely go to bed with anyone, they do drugs, etc.
How can we expect them to stop calling us terrorists, if we dont stop calling them these? Fact is, MANY of the muslim population (even the ones who arent living in the west) perform the same act as them sitting here in our "Muslim countries".
What the most of their population does, is not right. But what we do, is not right either. If they do the wrong thing, we must try to correct them, but you can NEVER correct someone if you constantly criticize them without any will to show them the right path. Thats what we do all the time.
So we feel bad when they wrongfully call us terrorists right? What about the people in the west, the ones who DO stay away from these activities, how do they feel when we talk about them in this way?
Islam has taught us to be kind to everyone and to be nice. Not to go about flaming people like that. So why are we still doing this? Instead of badmouthing the western people, we should instead try to make them understand that what they are doing is wrong.
Think of it this way, suppose there are political parties. Now one party is democratic while the other is communist. Now, obvious the democratic party has the advantage due to its features so the democratic party and the communist party, CONSTANTLY badmouths each other but it is the democratic party who wants the communist party to stop bad mouthing about them.
Do you ACTUALLY believe the communist party will stop? No, the communists arent asking the democrats to stop bad mouthing them either so they have no obligations to keep going. But since the democrats want the communists to stop bad mouthing, the democrats should be the FIRST people to stop, and show the communists that they can be good people in order for the communists to stop their wrong doing.
In this case, we are the democrats, they are the communists. Our ideology and form of Government is greatly superior, but we are stooping down in the same level as them in order to badmouth. WE SHOULD STOP.
As long as we associate the western people with things like shallowness, sinful adultery, drugs, etc. The western people are not obligated to call us Muslims - terrorists.
If we want THEM to change, WE OURSELVES have to change first.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
Alright, now the thing is, ALL of us Muslims here DO mind when the western world calls us "terrorists" right?
Asslamu Alikaum.
No I think we enjoy being called terrorists. JK
Be it because of their propaganda, or because of our acts (which is not the case) us Muslims HAVE had our reputation go down due to the actions done by the groups such the Taliban who perform sins in the name of OUR religion.
Yup those certain idiots cannot tell the difference between Muslims who are good and those who are bad and generalise all of us as terrorist.
Their actions DID make our religion come across as wrong and ever since then, the Western world never stopped calling us terrorists and till today we fight against this injustice as what they say is wrong and we are NOT terrorists although in the modern times (immediate present) only Muslims have had an "islamic group" who performed terror in the name of our religion (Taliban). In this aspect, the other religions come off as clean as they DO have terrorists, but hardly do they perform crime in the name of religion.
You need to look up on history and study international politics. Terrorism is used to send a political message to the government. The problems (terrorism) the West facing today is due to their foreign policy and interference in the Middle East. What goes around...comes around.
You expect people to sit down when foreigners invade their land, destroy their way of live, kill civilians and put them under oppression. You thinks they are going to play fair?
But look at us. Everytime we talk about the west, we ALWAYS go on like how shallow they are, how they are like public property, they have no shame and freely go to bed with anyone, they do drugs, etc.
Well are those the things we should be proud of? You do not expect us to compliment the sins they commit. BTW your experience is not accountable for other Muslims. Most of the Muslims from my experience behave like the kaffir.
How can we expect them to stop calling us terrorists, if we dont stop calling them these? Fact is, MANY of the muslim population (even the ones who arent living in the west) perform the same act as them sitting here in our "Muslim countries".
They are calling us terrorists for many other reasons too.
What the most of their population does, is not right. But what we do, is not right either.
I agree which is why we should spread Islam and try to help other Muslims who lack knowledge about their own religion.
If they do the wrong thing, we must try to correct them, but you can NEVER correct someone if you constantly criticize them without any will to show them the right path. Thats what we do all the time.
Yes some Muslims are quite judgemental.
So we feel bad when they wrongfully call us terrorists right? What about the people in the west, the ones who DO stay away from these activities, how do they feel when we talk about them in this way?
Yeah we should not generalise but at the same time, they should not generalise either. It sounds as though you are justifying their actions to me.
Islam has taught us to be kind to everyone and to be nice. Not to go about flaming people like that. So why are we still doing this? Instead of badmouthing the western people, we should instead try to make them understand that what they are doing is wrong.
Not all Muslims talk bad about the Westerners though yes we are in no position to judge them.
As long as we associate the western people with things like shallowness, sinful adultery, drugs, etc. The western people are not obligated to call us Muslims - terrorists.
Your joking right brother? Some Westerners hate Muslims. Simple. Some will never stop.
If we want THEM to change, WE OURSELVES have to change first.[/B]
This is the point I am trying to make.
Both need to change.
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
Brother, thank you for your reply, if it is not too much trouble, look through the thread adn you will see that I have already covered most of those points later on in this thread, but I will summarize my responses for some of those questions of yours
You expect people to sit down when foreigners invade their land, destroy their way of live, kill civilians and put them under oppression. You thinks they are going to play fair?
I actually want us to make this "invaders" understand that what they are doing is wrong by telling them about the true meaning of Islam and making it touch their hearts and we DO THIS by talking to them kindly and respectfully. Kindness and respect, ALWAYS has a way of coming back to the giver. If THIS attempt that making them understand about Islam fails, we go to war to defend ourselves. No questions asked.
I agree which is why we should spread Islam and try to help other Muslims who lack knowledge about their own religion.
Agreed completely. This should also be one of our main focus. But we must take the SAME "kind and respectful" approach to these astray muslims as we should for the non believers.
Yeah we should not generalise but at the same time, they should not generalise either.
COMPLETELY true! but in order to end an argument, one must calm down and let go of his / her emotions and try and be kind and respectful (controlling the deep anger that this person feels inside) to make the other person understand where they are being wrong. I elaborated more on my "husband - wife argument" earlier on in this thread and that example is also applicable for strangers as well.
Your joking right brother? Some Westerners hate Muslims. Simple. Some will never stop.
But those who havent done so, cant we TRY and see? Is this wrong of me to ask of this?
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
Brother, thank you for your reply, if it is not too much trouble, look through the thread adn you will see that I have already covered most of those points later on in this thread, but I will summarize my responses for some of those questions of yours
Ah too many posts to go through!
I actually want us to make this "invaders" understand that what they are doing is wrong by telling them about the true meaning of Islam and making it touch their hearts and we DO THIS by talking to them kindly and respectfully. Kindness and respect, ALWAYS has a way of coming back to the giver. If THIS attempt that making them understand about Islam fails, we go to war to defend ourselves. No questions asked.
Yes agreed.
Agreed completely. This should also be one of our main focus. But we must take the SAME "kind and respectful" approach to these astray muslims as we should for the non believers.
Again agreed.
COMPLETELY true! but in order to end an argument, one must calm down and let go of his / her emotions and try and be kind and respectful (controlling the deep anger that this person feels inside) to make the other person understand where they are being wrong. I elaborated more on my "husband - wife argument" earlier on in this thread and that example is also applicable for strangers as well.
Again agreed.
But those who havent done so, cant we TRY and see? Is this wrong of me to ask of this?
Nope. Your completely right brother.
I'm not entirely sure how this topic dragged on...
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
Brother, thank you for your reply, if it is not too much trouble, look through the thread adn you will see that I have already covered most of those points later on in this thread, but I will summarize my responses for some of those questions of yours
I actually want us to make this "invaders" understand that what they are doing is wrong by telling them about the true meaning of Islam and making it touch their hearts and we DO THIS by talking to them kindly and respectfully. Kindness and respect, ALWAYS has a way of coming back to the giver. If THIS attempt that making them understand about Islam fails, we go to war to defend ourselves. No questions asked.
Ever thought that some people do understand Islam but disagree? you don't have a monopoly on truth no matter how much you'd love it to be so.
Agreed completely. This should also be one of our main focus. But we must take the SAME "kind and respectful" approach to these astray muslims as we should for the non believers.
And when a non-Muslim still doesn't want to be a Muslim - it might be because he or she disagree's with Islamic principles as being counter reasonable or logical.
Tell me what is logical about banning Music and mandating that all men must grow a beard for starters (these aren't 'opinions', they're positions taken by your scholars) - I want to hear justification by you not what your books say but a logical well argued reason for it that doesn't resort to emotional rhetoric or some other jingoisms.
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
And you expect them to stop calling us terrorist if we stop (allegedly) calling those western individuals for their acts?
How naive.
It is the western media that perpetuate the image and idea of muslim as terrorist.
Not all western people think all muslims are terrorist, just as not all muslims think all westerners are filthy.
However, I agree that we as ummah need to improve our individual behaviour as close as the sunnah.
Ever thought to look at the way you behave - especially those here who blame everyone but themselves when the west gets the 'wrong' attitude. How can you not get the 'wrong' attitude by the way Muslims conduct themselves.
Unlike Islam, religion in the West is a private experience - it is not an all around life style so any attempts to equate behaviour to religion to anything else is ridiculous to begin with.
Those of us equate Islam to your behaviour because you've made your religion into a complete way of life. If Islam was a religion in the Western sense, there would be no confusion between conduct and beliefs.
Conclusion: If Muslims prayed 5 times a day, didn't drink alcohol, eat pork, go along to Friday prayers and didn't demand for the secular state to be corrupted by demanding Sharia - no one in the West would have a problem with Muslims or Islam. The fact that there are rabid zealots here demanding Sharia at the state level makes you and your religion incompatible with the rest of civilisation. It is you who are creating the clash - not us.
Last edited by kawaiigardiner; 10-03-2009 at 02:43 AM.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
it is not a question of 'logic', it is social & moral mores which define the standards, that standard is defined by religion...
Why is listening to music any more 'logical' than not listening to music.. there is no mathematics involved, there are choices however..
why do you need to scrub before surgery with abrasive betadine going over each plane of your finger then your arm all the way above your elbow a certain number of neurotic time and then gown and double glove at the end of that wash?..
These are the protocols, if you want to be a surgeon you adhere to them, if you want to be a practicing Muslim you adhere to them...
you however don't get to question us on it. Islam isn't right for you, that is your prerogative, there is no compulsion in religion and every soul is held in pledge of its own deed (both mentioned in the Quran) ..
try to work on your phraseology there is really more to it than putting nonsensical words together.. at the end all you do is spam and put your ignorance on display like a scab which everyone is dying to pick!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
it is not a question of 'logic', it is social & moral mores which define the standards, that standard is defined by religion...
Again, why is a beard important to ones morality? or is it yet another "allah knows best" reply?
Why is listening to music any more 'logical' than not listening to music.. there is no mathematics involved, there are choices however..
Because it is an emotional outlet - cutting the emotional outlet results in religious fervour being the only allowed outlet - as demonstrated by your replies.
why do you need to scrub before surgery with abrasive betadine going over each plane of your finger then your arm all the way above your elbow a certain number of neurotic time and then gown and double glove at the end of that wash?..
For reasons of hygiene - and these can be proven, unlike the position you take.
These are the protocols, if you want to be a surgeon you adhere to them, if you want to be a practicing Muslim you adhere to them...
you however don't get to question us on it. Islam isn't right for you, that is your prerogative, there is no compulsion in religion and every soul is held in pledge of its own deed (both mentioned in the Quran) ..
No compulsion and yet you seem to be hell bent on putting the world under Sharia with a global caliphate.
try to work on your phraseology there is really more to it than putting nonsensical words together.. at the end all you do is spam and put your ignorance on display like a scab which everyone is dying to pick!
all the best
Personal attacks - the last refuge for the scoundrel.
Surprised you didn't order someone to kill me as Muhammad asked a companion to assassinate a local poet who he found 'annoying'.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by kawaiigardiner
Again, why is a beard important to ones morality? or is it yet another "allah knows best" reply?
And I ask you the same, why is a beard not important? don't have an answer? not even a God knows best?
Because it is an emotional outlet - cutting the emotional outlet results in religious fervour being the only allowed outlet - as demonstrated by your replies.
an emotional outlet to whom? and how is cutting an emotional outlet lead to religious fervor? can you back that up with something other than your asinine opinion?
For reasons of hygiene - and these can be proven, unlike the position you take.
No formal studies in medicine prove that scrubbing your finger 6 times as opposed to four or five times as opposed to seven leads to any better or worst hygiene in fact I challenge you to bring me the double blind study that states so, again, something other than your opinion will do!
No compulsion and yet you seem to be hell bent on putting the world under Sharia with a global caliphate.
That is your own personal delusion, the same one that leads you to write utter nonsense on every thread that you can't back up!
Personal attacks - the last refuge for the scoundrel.
Ah, an honest assessment of yourself, alas to what do we owe this sudden insight?
Surprised you didn't order someone to kill me as Muhammad asked a companion to assassinate a local poet who he found 'annoying'.
which local poet is that? do you always enjoy ending on a fabricated note? I think you are doing a good job assassinating yourself with endless moronity .. now go take a hike!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by kawaiigardiner
Again, why is a beard important to ones morality? or is it yet another "allah knows best" reply?
For a believer, it is simply a matter of obeying the commandments of our Creator and what He has instructed us to do, because we believe the Qur'an was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and through our Prophet, Allah sent down the most perfect way of life. Until you believe what we believe, you won't understand many of the commandments that Muslims follow. It isn't always a case of "this is most logical, so that's why we do it". There are many things we do in our daily lives which have very good supporting rationale, but no matter how good that reasoning may be, first and foremost we do it because God commanded it.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
And I ask you the same, why is a beard not important? don't have an answer? not even a God knows best?
Because ones spirituality is transcendent of ones flesh; your outward bodily appearance is zero when compared to what you hold in your heart. If you need outward displays to prove piety in the form of beards, trinkets, and other illogical ear-looms - then there is a problem with that religion.
an emotional outlet to whom? and how is cutting an emotional outlet lead to religious fervor? can you back that up with something other than your asinine opinion?
Read Siegman Freid - there are many other books on the matter relating to emotion and a lack of a health release mechaism.
No formal studies in medicine prove that scrubbing your finger 6 times as opposed to four or five times as opposed to seven leads to any better or worst hygiene in fact I challenge you to bring me the double blind study that states so, again, something other than your opinion will do!
Why do Muslims short water up their nose under the believe that evil spirits inhabit their nose and ears according to a Sahih Al-Bukhari hadith?
That is your own personal delusion, the same one that leads you to write utter nonsense on every thread that you can't back up!
Ah, an honest assessment of yourself, alas to what do we owe this sudden insight?
which local poet is that? do you always enjoy ending on a fabricated note? I think you are doing a good job assassinating yourself with endless moronity .. now go take a hike!
all the best
Your post has zealot written all over it - thank you for cementing my harsh opinion of Islam and Muslims even further. Irrational and anti-modern zealots with all the same lack of refinement as Atilla the hun.
Last edited by kawaiigardiner; 10-03-2009 at 04:05 AM.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by kawaiigardiner
Your post has zealot written all over it - thank you for cementing my harsh opinion of Islam and Muslims even further. Irrational and anti-modern zealots with all the same lack of refinement as Atilla the hun.
ah.. don't have anything of substance to write so you throw a tantrum?
now that you hate Muslims especially us beaten/battered woman, do you think you can simply take a hike from our forum?
don't you have a hooters to go too after purchasing a slurrpy from 711?
the really good ones come at this hours you know, you can come tomorrow for your IM ceftriaxone and oral doxy.. so go on and sow a few wild oats!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by kawaiigardiner
Because ones spirituality is transcendent of ones flesh; your outward bodily appearance is zero when compared to what you hold in your heart. If you need outward displays to prove piety in the form of beards, trinkets, and other illogical ear-looms - then there is a problem with that religion.
That is all pretty, but how do you know that their outward doesn't reflect their inward.. again, you did a formal study surveying all muslims and their behavior?
Read Siegman Freid - there are many other books on the matter relating to emotion and a lack of a health release mechaism.
You actually need to do your homework, and bring me a current article from a medical journal that is peer reviewed .. do you think you can do that?
for instance the December Issue from JAMA discussing preoperative hand rubbing vs traditional hand scrubbing!
Why do Muslims short water up their nose under the believe that evil spirits inhabit their nose and ears according to a Sahih Al-Bukhari hadith?
Again, when you write something with assertion, you need to bring it from the source and cite it, not drivel from your stealth crusade sites!
format_quote Originally Posted by kawaiigardiner
Interesting that you ignore my updated post.
see above, although I am with you, it does indeed deserve to be ignored!
I came here to learn but you simply re-enforced all the negative opinions I had before - give yourself a Allahuakbar for good measure.
That is irrelevant to the thread and inconsequential to me personally.. I am not sure, should your anger and despair elicit some sort of a response from the members here? that is what psychiatrists get paid to do not random people on a public forum!
I'm gay - I have no interest in 'hooters'. I don't like Slurrpy - I'd prefer a peach ice tea.
go to chip and dale then and do you thing there!
Why would I want to 'sow a few wild oats'?
Why not? what is to gained from gayhood, whether in nature or in religion?
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
OKAY!!! guys! This is exactly what I was talking about.. skye, there was no need for the last para (2nd last actually) you wrote to kawai on your first reply... Why start with the insults? He is questioning our religion, so why not ANSWER him properly instead of going on the offensive? Ive spent an entire six pages trying to convince everyone not to flame questions like this to what use if you ended up insulting him like this for questioning us?
Yes, we must do what Allah has commanded us to do, but that does not mean we should follow Islam blindly. I am sure Allah WANTS us to know, WHY we do what he told us to do. Thats why we are the smartest species in the universe. If you have doubts about your religion, ALWAYS question it in order to find out the truth. That is the principle I have been living by. Its true, if we have a doubt and we leave our doubt with the answer "Allah knows best", that ISNT an answer actually. While it maybe true, it still keeps a portion of the doubt left in our heart. So what should we do? QUESTION IT.
Kawai, I myself dont believe that Music is COMPLETELY haram. Only music with bad lyrics which glorifies sins is haram. This is because music like that can sometimes lead us astray and even though its most likely you wont, some people actually do get influenced by music and start on drugs and their language also becomes foul. In Islam, it is said that all that is harmful to you and your character is forbidden. If foul music is bad for us, it is haram. It is done for our own good. Suppose something bad happened in your family - many people would rather turn to music to calm themselves down than reading the Quran and finding peace in their heart. That is wrong. Many people would play their music loud during callings for prayers from the masjid, that is just pure disrespect and many people would listen to music while not going to pray, that is neglecting your duties.
The OTHER good argument against music would be when Muhammad (pbuh) said that all who PLAYS musical instruments will be punished. But the prophet never mentioned anything about LISTENING to music, so it still allows us space to listen to music, AS LONG as it is good and AS LONG as we dont listen to it over finishing our prayers or listen to it during Azaan, etc. The quran doesnt mention music either although it does say somewhere that "we should not waste our time with idle talk" (which many include music) but if I listen to music while on a journey or doing some research over the internet, I dont see how it would be considered "idle talk" anymore then. This is what I believe. In the opinions of some other Caliphs or Khalifas, it says that they forbid music, but those words did not come from Muhammad nor the Quran so I will REFUSE to believe it unless Jesus in his second coming (yes, in Islam we do believe JESUS will come back) tells me that music is forbidden. OR if someone shows me one of Muhammad's quote about music where he says that we should not LISTEN to music.
Lastly Kawai, the beard, its not mandatory, its a Sunnah. It means that we MAY or MAY NOT do it, it is our wish. But if we DO do it, we will get ALOT of suwab (or blessing in the form of good deeds) from Allah. You dont HAVE to keep a beard. Sunnah is basically doing the same things Muhammad did.
As you can see, banning of bad lyriced music and listening to music while neglecting your duties to yourself and Allah are banned with a LOGICAL explanation. And I just explained the beard thing as well. Everything in Islam is logical, you just have to think hard and find it and I am sure that if you spend the time researching on Islam AND your own religion, you will come to like Islam ALOT more as long as you know what your own religion says as well.
Now the reason im telling you to know BOTH your own religion AND Islam is because, religion is like a rule, and generally people dont like to follow rules so you'd think that Islam is WAY too strict and you would not want to follow it. But if you believe that you want to get closer to God or Allah, then you should atleast try and see what BOTH the Holy books say and you will see that all of Islam's rulings are well, more logical and justified than the rules found in all other religious books. Just give it a chance brother. But whatever you do, know your own religion first before studying another.
If you have anymore questions, please do ask away and ill be more than happy to help
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
Skye, PLEASE stop with the insults. Atleast take it to another thread but not mine. I didnt spend all those hours posting here just to see that in the end no1 even listened.
@kawai, Hadiths that talk of Muhammad's doings and Muhammad's quotes are only true for me.. but opinions of Hadith writers sometimes are VERY inaccurate as it has been seen so several times in these forums. I personally ONLY believe the words about Islam which came from Muhammad and Allah, but no1 else.
Allah ONLY sent messages to Muhammad, not his companions so when these companions give their OWN opinions in the Hadith, its best that you research and think it up before you chose to follow those opinions.
We snort water into our noses to clean it. Cleanliness is all thats wudu is about. You would not want to go in front of god with dirt all over you would you? Thats the thing. Wudu just prepares us for our spiritual journey that lies ahead.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
You have this clangorous need for self-righteous humbug and the need for the occasional catharsis for release.. I can't be made to read a sermon of someone's opinion, really I think it is a waste of everyone's time, and I am personally not here to make anyone happy.. Truth stands out clear from Error, if you desire to swerve from that to appease a homosexual then by all means.. religion isn't about sexual acts or orientation and their introduction into topics is as asinine as believing that if you handle a homosexual with kid gloves they will love Muslims.
You have bias, everyone does else you are a hypocrite.. you certainly can't please all people at all times.. religion is a done deal, there is no reinterpretation or modernity.. the laws are set.. if he wants to hijack another homosexual from the isle of lesbos and leave god free, he is so entitled.. If you want to join him, pls be my guest.. but you'll not dictate to me what you deem appropriate.. I hope we are clear?
all the best
p.s this is a public forum and anyone is free to write wherever they may.. I am not sure what you think you've worked had to achieve, I believe you were successful in driving the majority away as no one can be made to take 3 hrs of their time to reply to massive logorrhea ..
Last edited by جوري; 10-03-2009 at 04:29 AM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
OKAY!!! guys! This is exactly what I was talking about.. skye, there was no need for the last para (2nd last actually) you wrote to kawai on your first reply... Why start with the insults? He is questioning our religion, so why not ANSWER him properly instead of going on the offensive? Ive spent an entire six pages trying to convince everyone not to flame questions like this to what use if you ended up insulting him like this for questioning us?
Yes, we must do what Allah has commanded us to do, but that does not mean we should follow Islam blindly. I am sure Allah WANTS us to know, WHY we do what he told us to do. Thats why we are the smartest species in the universe. If you have doubts about your religion, ALWAYS question it in order to find out the truth. That is the principle I have been living by. Its true, if we have a doubt and we leave our doubt with the answer "Allah knows best", that ISNT an answer actually. While it maybe true, it still keeps a portion of the doubt left in our heart. So what should we do? QUESTION IT.
Unfortunately there are some here who have the idea of "this is Islam, don't question it, just do it".
Kawai, I myself dont believe that Music is COMPLETELY haram. Only music with bad lyrics which glorifies sins is haram. This is because music like that can sometimes lead us astray and even though its most likely you wont, some people actually do get influenced by music and start on drugs and their language also becomes foul. In Islam, it is said that all that is harmful to you and your character is forbidden. If foul music is bad for us, it is haram. It is done for our own good. Suppose something bad happened in your family - many people would rather turn to music to calm themselves down than reading the Quran and finding peace in their heart. That is wrong. Many people would play their music loud during callings for prayers from the masjid, that is just pure disrespect and many people would listen to music while not going to pray, that is neglecting your duties.
Hence I found the ban on Music by the four schools of Fiqh as being ridiculous; honestly, is the following going to lead to hell, fire and ****ation?
The OTHER good argument against music would be when Muhammad (pbuh) said that all who PLAYS musical instruments will be punished. But the prophet never mentioned anything about LISTENING to music, so it still allows us space to listen to music, AS LONG as it is good and AS LONG as we dont listen to it over finishing our prayers or listen to it during Azaan, etc. The quran doesnt mention music either although it does say somewhere that "we should not waste our time with idle talk" (which many include music) but if I listen to music while on a journey or doing some research over the internet, I dont see how it would be considered "idle talk" anymore then. This is what I believe. In the opinions of some other Caliphs or Khalifas, it says that they forbid music, but those words did not come from Muhammad nor the Quran so I will REFUSE to believe it unless Jesus in his second coming (yes, in Islam we do believe JESUS will come back) tells me that music is forbidden. OR if someone shows me one of Muhammad's quote about music where he says that we should not LISTEN to music.
I play the piano - so that rules out Islam for me.
Lastly Kawai, the beard, its not mandatory, its a Sunnah. It means that we MAY or MAY NOT do it, it is our wish. But if we DO do it, we will get ALOT of suwab (or blessing in the form of good deeds) from Allah. You dont HAVE to keep a beard. Sunnah is basically doing the same things Muhammad did.
According to the four schools of Fiqh, it is mandatory.
As you can see, banning of bad lyriced music and listening to music while neglecting your duties to yourself and Allah are banned with a LOGICAL explanation. And I just explained the beard thing as well. Everything in Islam is logical, you just have to think hard and find it and I am sure that if you spend the time researching on Islam AND your own religion, you will come to like Islam ALOT more as long as you know what your own religion says as well.
Now the reason im telling you to know BOTH your own religion AND Islam is because, religion is like a rule, and generally people dont like to follow rules so you'd think that Islam is WAY too strict and you would not want to follow it. But if you believe that you want to get closer to God or Allah, then you should atleast try and see what BOTH the Holy books say and you will see that all of Islam's rulings are well, more logical and justified than the rules found in all other religious books. Just give it a chance brother. But whatever you do, know your own religion first before studying another.
If you have anymore questions, please do ask away and ill be more than happy to help
I don't mind rules when they are based on logic and reason - not because a philistine took exception with someone who has artistic skills.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
You have this clangorous need for self-righteous humbug and the need for the occasional catharsis for release.. I can't be made to read a sermon of someone's opinion, really I think it is a waste of everyone's time, and I am personally not here to make anyone happy.. Truth stands out clear from Error, if you desire to swerve from that to appease a homosexual then by all means.. religion isn't about sexual acts or orientation and their introduction into topics is as asinine as believing that if you handle a homosexual with kid gloves they will love Muslims.
You have bias, everyone does else you are a hypocrite.. you certainly can't please all people at all times.. religion is a done deal, there is no reinterpretation or modernity.. the laws are set.. if he wants to hijack another homosexual from the isle of lesbos and leave god free, he is so entitled.. If you want to join him, pls be my guest.. but you'll not dictate to me what you deem appropriate.. I hope we are clear?
all the best
p.s this is a public forum and anyone is free to write wherever they may.. I am not sure what you think you've worked had to achieve, I believe you were successful in driving the majority away as no one can be made to take 3 hrs of their time to reply to massive logorrhea ..
Truth stands out from error. Thats why I am trying to make him realize which way is right and which way is wrong through the PROPER WAY! The WAY Islam wants us to do things. Muhammad (pbuh) wanted us to be kind and respectful to people right? THATS WHAT I AM DOING!! A SUNNAH!
You on the other hand are being blatantly disrespectful, to me AND him. I have no shown you any disrespect but you went ahead and flamed me too.. nice! tells me A LOT to me about your beautiful character.
p.s this is a public forum and anyone is free to write wherever they may
oh rly?
then whats this you said earlier to kawai??
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
now that you hate Muslims especially us beaten/battered woman, do you think you can simply take a hike from our forum?
Your entitled to your opinion, im entitled to mine. If you think being violent towards ANYONE who does something wrong and criticizing them WITHOUT the will to make them understand will ACTUALLY help spread the word of Islam to the non believers, then be my guest and bask in your own ignorance.
I on the other hand will follow the right way of doing things, the way Islam WANTS us to be by being respectful and kind to everyone and make them understand with the TRUE will of making them learn from my part. I believe people here on the forums already know who is right and who is wrong between you and I. But I will leave it at that. I believe my intentions are pure, but your intentions are solely aimed at demeaning the people who mistakes.
I want to make a difference in this world, and I want to follow my religion knowing WHY I follow it instead of having blind faith. Thats how I plan on changing the views of the non believers. Showing them WHY they should follow Islam and I obviously wont let an arrogant person like you get in my way of wanting to make a difference.
Please, as a favor to me, go lead another thread astray, I want this thread to stay open so that people may see and realize the situation we are all in and the way we should act.
Re: Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"
@ kawai, it maybe be mandatory for those schools of fiqh, but EVERYONE knows this, keeping a beard is a Sunnah, NOT a faradh. Its not commanded upon us by God. Please search around Google abit more and you'll see this.
As for the music part, I would be grateful if you could quote Muhammad (pbuh) saying that "LISTENING to music is wrong". Otherwise there is no evidence of GOOD music being forbidden in the Quran as well as I have not found any quotes of Muhammad (pbuh) saying listening to good music is bad.
Playing music is a different issue as Allah wants us to use our life properly and effeciently. Not produce something that will lead others astray and maybe cause your listeners to do sin by listening to music over doing their duties.. Thats why playing music (as a profession atleast) is bad and that is purely logical.
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