Victims in rape cases

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

I kindly urge you and everyone else to pause and ponder on what I said in my first post with a clear mind and then see what I was saying rather than reach half-baked conclusions.

I simply said:



This is not to say that all rape happens when someone goes out into a dangerous place at night all alone. Did I say that anywhere? No. I only chose this example as this is what people usually assume when they apportion blame. Hence the need to mention it as an example. Again, there is no need to remain hung up on it. Move on.

I do not recall saying that is what you have stated at all. It's usually ignorant individuals who "ass-ume" matters they are completely unaware of. You raised an important point, and what is the point of "moving on" when there are people with that mentality still walking on earth. Remember it's not YOU I'm talking about. So don't take it the wrong way.

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

Think about it this way... when a person steals from a store, it is the he who is punished by the law. They don't slap any fine or prison sentence on the shop keeper for not having any security and making it easy on the thief.

Again, it would be stupid of the shop keeper to not keep his products secure but he can't be blamed or punished for someone else's crime.

However, would it not have been a contribution? If a shop-keeper failed to protect his store, would he not be blamed, to a certain extent, for making it so easy to be a target of robbery?

Keep in mind, I'm not having a go at you. I just want to hear your response.

I've already answered that. Quite plainly...

Sorry.

Anyways, no. We can call her stupid, but we can't say it was her fault.

So if a women were to put herself in danger, for no apparent reason, she's stupid. Okay...

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger

What is a well-known dangerous place?

Salaam,

I think it means that it is a dangerous area where you are likely to get attacked.

Most women get raped by someone they know.

I agree.

A well needed information.

I would call it unnecessary for this particular topic but thank you for your contribution and effort.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos

I would call it unnecessary for this particular topic but thank you for your contribution and effort.

respect. some people think about their jannati sinless-selves from a very high pedestal.

There are plenty of humans with a heart harder than that of a stone.

Back to the topic, anyone who takes the time to actually place blame on a rape victim should be sent to the asylum institute.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos

Salaam,

I think it means that it is a dangerous area where you are likely to get attacked.

Waliakum Salaam,

Is there a sign that says "This is a dangerous area" "Enter on your own risk" "You might/will get raped"?

I would call it unnecessary for this particular topic but thank you for your contribution and effort.

How is it unnecessary? Do you actually think that people who blame rape victims are not lacking basic information about rape?

seems someone has too much cash to pay for the running of asylum institute for such people who think contrary to someone's beliefs. I aint paying my tax money for someone else's sensitivities.

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

Ugh. Why are people getting hung up on that sentence? It's just something I used to draw example to carelessness. No need to dwell on it too deeply..

Don't worry about it.

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

Anyways, define 'blame' here. When you think of that word, it implies punishment. Punishment in the case of rape is exclusive to the rapist.

Definition of blame:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...lame_1?q=blame

Definition punishment:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...1?q=punishment

I suppose not all situations where a person is blamed/responsible, will get punished.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger

Waliakum Salaam,

Is there a sign that says "This is a dangerous area" "Enter on your own risk" "You might/will get raped"?

There are some areas where your likely to get attacked than others. I agree though it is difficult to define what is considered to be a dangerous area. I suppose any area can be dangerous.

How is it unnecessary? Do you actually think that people who blame rape victims are not lacking basic information about rape?

I apologise. I already knew the information you posted and was not new to me. I forgot to consider your post may educate other members, because rape is a misunderstood subject from my experience.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger

Is there a sign that says "This is a dangerous area" "Enter on your own risk" "You might/will get raped"?

There are no areas where you live that are known to be unsafe, that your parents would warn you against going alone even in the day? If you ever land up in California then, parts of LA county would be a fairly good example of that, even downtown LA. There are no signs that warn anybody, but it's fairly obvious driving through. Just because any area can be unsafe, and some of the rapes/murders that made headlines recently were in fairly good, safe areas, and in broad daylight as well, does not mean that there aren't areas that are really, really scary and dangerous.

On the main question at hand, like the others I would not blame the victim. There's nothing good that could come out from blaming the victim, even they may have been stupid. They're already hit rock bottom at that point and their lives have changed forever...

format_quote Originally Posted by Jawharah

There are no areas where you live that are known to be unsafe, that your parents would warn you against going alone even in the day? If you ever land up in California then, parts of LA county would be a fairly good example of that, even downtown LA. There are no signs that warn anybody, but it's fairly obvious driving through. Just because any area can be unsafe, and some of the rapes/murders that made headlines recently were in fairly good, safe areas, and in broad daylight as well, does not mean that there aren't areas that are really, really scary and dangerous.

On the main question at hand, like the others I would not blame the victim. There's nothing good that could come out from blaming the victim, even they may have been stupid. They're already hit rock bottom at that point and their lives have changed forever...

I don't know what areas you are referring to or what their characteristics are, but I'm mistrustful of everyone other than my parents and siblings regardless of "where" they are.

Huh? That wasn't the point. The point was that there are areas that are well known to be unsafe, regardless of whether or not there are signs stating so. As for the characteristics of LA County, it has a high amount of gang related crimes.

if the statement that people are raped by ppl who are close to them is absolutely true, then most rapes should have been done by fathers or brothers or sisters or mothers.

format_quote Originally Posted by Jawharah

Huh? That wasn't the point. The point was that there are areas that are well known to be unsafe, regardless of whether or not there are signs stating so. As for the characteristics of LA County, it has a high amount of gang related crimes.

Ha? You're looking at a fraction of the problem. Rape is not restricted to areas that has high gang related crimes, so what is the point of pointing out those areas over other areas where a woman/man could equally get raped.

There are plenty of areas that are supposedly "well-known" to be safe, and women still get raped, regardless of the location. The point is that everyone should be careful regardless of where they are.

I was not saying that. There aren't specific areas that I know of where there are only high instances of rapes. There are simply areas where it is unsafe, hence my example. It's pointless to be so literalistic about things, when it's fairly obvious what we are getting at. If it's not obvious, then I can't break it down anymore simply. I'm sorry.

There are plenty of areas that are supposedly "well-known" to be safe, and women still get raped, regardless of the location. The point is that everyone should be careful regardless of where they are.

I know that, which is why I said:
Just because any area can be unsafe, and some of the rapes/murders that made headlines recently were in fairly good, safe areas, and in broad daylight as well, does not mean that there aren't areas that are really, really scary and dangerous.

You clearly questioned the possibility of places being unsafe, and seemed to doubt the validity of that. I did not say that that safe areas aren't likely spots to get raped.

if the statement that people are raped by ppl who are close to them is absolutely true, then most rapes should have been done by fathers or brothers or sisters or mothers.

I think it is supposed to be as people you see on a daily basis, and come into close proximity with, not people you are just close to. Classmates, colleagues, etc who are not close to you still pose a danger because women don't suspect them, and then get attacked, sometimes because the guy thinks she wanted it because she smiled at him once and was playing hard-to-get.

format_quote Originally Posted by Jawharah

I was not saying that. There aren't specific areas that I know of where there are only high instances of rapes. There are simply areas where it is unsafe, hence my example. It's pointless to be so literalistic about things, when it's fairly obvious what we are getting at. If it's not obvious, then I can't break it down anymore simply. I'm sorry.

I know that, which is why I said:
Just because any area can be unsafe, and some of the rapes/murders that made headlines recently were in fairly good, safe areas, and in broad daylight as well, does not mean that there aren't areas that are really, really scary and dangerous.

You clearly questioned the possibility of places being unsafe, and seemed to doubt the validity of that. I did not say that that safe areas aren't likely spots to get raped.

Again, I questioned the notion of labeling a place "unsafe" because of socioeconomic stereotypes related to some areas. I know plenty of women who live in war-torn cities who never got raped, and an individual who lived in a rich suburb that felt violated. The main factor is not merely the "safety" of the area, but the predatory nature of a particular man in that vicinity. Simply.

Salaam Aliakum.

You don't know if the women from war-torn countries weren't raped, you only know that they haven't told you about it. Plenty of rape victims do not talk about it. (War torn countries also throw out the factor of close proximity, so is close proximity now also not true?)

The main factor is not merely the "safety" of the area, but the predatory nature of a particular man in that vicinity. Simply.

I know that.

format_quote Originally Posted by Jawharah

You don't know if the women from war-torn countries weren't raped, you only know that they haven't told you about it. Plenty of rape victims do not talk about it.


I know that.

Again, I said, "cities" implying the same country. I can not speak for every women in every war torn country, just the women I know (personally) who live in war-torn cities. Besides, you have no idea what I know or what they told me.

I highlighted "war-torn cities" to address the notion of "unsafe" areas.

format_quote Originally Posted by Jawharah

I think it is supposed to be as people you see on a daily basis, and come into close proximity with, not people you are just close to. Classmates, colleagues, etc who are not close to you still pose a danger because women don't suspect them, and then get attacked, sometimes because the guy thinks she wanted it because she smiled at him once and was playing hard-to-get.

I respect your level-headed views. But your statement is not inclusive of cases where a guy gets raped or sexually harassed (including biting off his private parts) by a woman (girl friend, wife, teacher, female relative). No matter how rare it might be (it acutally is not, guys just dont report it because if they do, they become outcasts and a laughing stock for not being "man enough," the artificial standard made by society), we cannot ignore it. Yes, some have called me a Muslim masculist, however I do not use that label. Labels are useless.