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    universecloud's Avatar
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    The shiekh is too fast!

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    I go to this masjid with the shiekh on the 3rd and 4th rakah, his Fatiha recitation is SO fast that he finishes in about 7 seconds (maybe less, I wasn't counting).

    While I'm on the 4th verse of the surah, he goes "Allahu Akbar".


    The thing is, when he recites in the first 2 rakahs he is just right! But after that, lightening speed!

    Does Allah allow this ? Is this okay?

    In any case I'm having to find another masjid but I just want to know.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Do you follow any madhab?, if not then you can follow Hanafi and you don't have to recite Quran behind Imaam

    This means, when imam goes to ruku, you can too whether you have read faatihah or not
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:13 AM.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Do you follow any madhab?, if not then you can follow Hanafi and you don't have to recite Quran behind Imaam

    This means, when imam goes to ruku, you can too whether you have read faatihah or not
    I have several remarks to this reaction.

    To change from madhab just because of such an imaam is not recommended. changing your madhab is an important choice. You cannot change madhab for just a minor reason and the next day change it back to some other madhab. That would be cherrypicking.

    Generally I would recommend to follow a madhab, because that is a secure way.

    Second, the imaam is not correct to be that fast. He should take into account that there is a jamaat behind him following so his prayers should be not too long, especially on times where a lot of people work, but neither should it be that fast so that no one can follow.

    I don't know whether it goes against the rules, but at least it is not very thoughtfull of him, and he should correct that.

    Third, we from Hanifah madhab do recite Al fatihah behind the imaam at all. we keep our lips still and just listen.

    But I am gueassing during sitting in salaat Tashahhud and Taslim where one has to recite Attahiyat etc, it is also too short.
    Whe are not silent during the whole salaat.

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    I have several remarks to this reaction.

    To change from madhab just because of such an imaam is not recommended. changing your madhab is an important choice. You cannot change madhab for just a minor reason and the next day change it back to some other madhab. That would be cherrypicking.

    Generally I would recommend to follow a madhab, because that is a secure way.

    Second, the imaam is not correct to be that fast. He should take into account that there is a jamaat behind him following so his prayers should be not too long, especially on times where a lot of people work, but neither should it be that fast so that no one can follow.

    I don't know whether it goes against the rules, but at least it is not very thoughtfull of him, and he should correct that.

    Third, we from Hanifah madhab do recite Al fatihah behind the imaam at all. we keep our lips still and just listen.

    But I am gueassing during sitting in salaat Tashahhud and Taslim where one has to recite Attahiyat etc, it is also too short.
    Whe are not silent during the whole salaat.
    I said 'do you follow a madhab?, if not...'

    So he could follow Hanafi madhab if he's not following a madhab

    In Hanafi madhab (not sure about others) it's sunnah to say last 2 rakaahs faatihah so even if imam or individual worshipper completely left it out and remained standing for few seconds... Then salah will be valid (but less optimally) and also instead of last 2 faatihah one can just say 'subhanAllah' 3 times and this fulfils the sunnah, so maybe this imam is doing that

    About us saying atahyiat etc, I said, we do not have to recite QURAN behind imam

    One more point I'd like to make is that, OP has told us previously how he has some psychological problems... So he could be misjudging the '7 secs' estimation... It could be a bit longer to say faatihah properly
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 1 Week Ago at 04:16 PM.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Sorry OP I had to bring your illness up to clarify things

    Quite recitation is usually a lot faster than loud recitation as in imams loud recitation, Imam focuses on beautifying it with lengthiness...

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by universecloud View Post
    I go to this masjid with the shiekh on the 3rd and 4th rakah, his Fatiha recitation is SO fast that he finishes in about 7 seconds (maybe less, I wasn't counting).

    While I'm on the 4th verse of the surah, he goes "Allahu Akbar".


    The thing is, when he recites in the first 2 rakahs he is just right! But after that, lightening speed!

    Does Allah allow this ? Is this okay?

    In any case I'm having to find another masjid but I just want to know.
    Are you the only one who has this issue or others behind Imam have similar problem? May be talk to your Imam and ask him if he can recite Fatiha at the same speed as he does in first two rakahs?

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Are you the only one who has this issue or others behind Imam have similar problem? May be talk to your Imam and ask him if he can recite Fatiha at the same speed as he does in first two rakahs?
    I asked but he still does the same thing, I had to walk to a masjid 30 minutes away but they still do the same.

    Like, I tried to be as reasonably fast as I could but he still beats me while I'm 2-3 verses behind.

    I've decided that I can't go to another mosque due to reasons (and Allah knows why! Don't judge). And start to pray at home as slow as I want it to be. Allah is looking at me right now and I don't know if I've made the right choice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Sorry OP I had to bring your illness up to clarify things

    Quite recitation is usually a lot faster than loud recitation as in imams loud recitation, Imam focuses on beautifying it with lengthiness...
    So why don't they beautify it in silence ? Why do they have to be fast ? What's the hurry when praying for the one that created time ? At the very least lengthen the recitation 5-10 seconds more, what harm does this do ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Do you follow any madhab?, if not then you can follow Hanafi and you don't have to recite Quran behind Imaam

    This means, when imam goes to ruku, you can too whether you have read faatihah or not
    What's a madhab?

    I know I don't have to recite behind imam (in the 1st and 2nd rakah) but in the 3rd / 4th I have to recite it myself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also in dhuhr and ASR prayer 1st and 2nd rakahs are fine only because of whatever surah he is reciting after Fatiha which lengthens it a bit more.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by universecloud View Post
    I asked but he still does the same thing, I had to walk to a masjid 30 minutes away but they still do the same.

    Like, I tried to be as reasonably fast as I could but he still beats me while I'm 2-3 verses behind.

    I've decided that I can't go to another mosque due to reasons (and Allah knows why! Don't judge). And start to pray at home as slow as I want it to be. Allah is looking at me right now and I don't know if I've made the right choice.
    It is important they you keep connected to the mosque if possible. There are so many rewards you can miss on by not going to the mosque.
    Are there any other people who have same problem? Talk to them and go collectively to imam to request him to slow down a bit. If he still does not slow down then you guys need to find a better imam.

    I also found an answer on similar issue on Islam Questions and answers, see link below:

    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1811...ray-behind-him
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 1 Week Ago at 09:07 PM.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by universecloud View Post
    I asked but he still does the same thing, I had to walk to a masjid 30 minutes away but they still do the same.

    Like, I tried to be as reasonably fast as I could but he still beats me while I'm 2-3 verses behind.

    I've decided that I can't go to another mosque due to reasons (and Allah knows why! Don't judge). And start to pray at home as slow as I want it to be. Allah is looking at me right now and I don't know if I've made the right choice.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So why don't they beautify it in silence ? Why do they have to be fast ? What's the hurry when praying for the one that created time ? At the very least lengthen the recitation 5-10 seconds more, what harm does this do ?

    - - - Updated - - -



    What's a madhab?

    I know I don't have to recite behind imam (in the 1st and 2nd rakah) but in the 3rd / 4th I have to recite it myself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also in dhuhr and ASR prayer 1st and 2nd rakahs are fine only because of whatever surah he is reciting after Fatiha which lengthens it a bit more.
    Imam beutifies the loud recitation so his followers can listen to beautiful recitation and be inspired...

    There are 4 madhab in Sunni Islam. A madhab is a codification of the practical Islam by a qualified Imam. Us laymen wouldn't know how to derive the rulings from Quran and hadith so a qualified imam does it for us.

    There are 4 madhabs that differ in a minority of opinions and it is these differences that makes them different madhabs. For example, one school says faatihah has to be recited behind imam and another school says it doesn't. These differences exist as Imams can reach different opinions with the same evidences as not all 2 people understand and reason the same and Islam allows these differences as long as it is reached in all sincerity by qualified Imams.

    Quran says 'do not follow your desires' and as us laymen are not qualified to derive or judge one opinion over another, this is why our desires will play a part in us attempting to do so, this is why the majority of scholars' say that laymen have to pick one madhab and stick to all of its rulings rather then pick and choose from all four

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/84194

    Is it necessary to follow one madhab or Muslims can follow all four? | IslamQA
    Is it necessary to follow one madhab or Muslims can follow all four?...

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you don't recite faatihah in 1st 2 rakaahs, this means you already follow Hanafi madhab.

    You don't have to recite in 3rd and fourth rakaahs too based on the hadith that says 'imams recitation is followers recitation'. So Imams quite recitation suffices for us too

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa-birmingham/87719

    Reciting Surah Fatiha behind the Imam | IslamQA
    Reciting Surah Fatiha behind the Imam...

    - - - Updated - - -

    That link above says it is makru tahrima (prohibitively disliked) to recite faatihah behind imam and this means it is sinful to do so, so don't recite at all in any rakaahs

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Imam beutifies the loud recitation so his followers can listen to beautiful recitation and be inspired...

    There are 4 madhab in Sunni Islam. A madhab is a codification of the practical Islam by a qualified Imam. Us laymen wouldn't know how to derive the rulings from Quran and hadith so a qualified imam does it for us.

    There are 4 madhabs that differ in a minority of opinions and it is these differences that makes them different madhabs. For example, one school says faatihah has to be recited behind imam and another school says it doesn't. These differences exist as Imams can reach different opinions with the same evidences as not all 2 people understand and reason the same and Islam allows these differences as long as it is reached in all sincerity by qualified Imams.

    Quran says 'do not follow your desires' and as us laymen are not qualified to derive or judge one opinion over another, this is why our desires will play a part in us attempting to do so, this is why the majority of scholars' say that laymen have to pick one madhab and stick to all of its rulings rather then pick and choose from all four

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/84194

    Is it necessary to follow one madhab or Muslims can follow all four? | IslamQA
    Is it necessary to follow one madhab or Muslims can follow all four?...

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you don't recite faatihah in 1st 2 rakaahs, this means you already follow Hanafi madhab.

    You don't have to recite in 3rd and fourth rakaahs too based on the hadith that says 'imams recitation is followers recitation'. So Imams quite recitation suffices for us too

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa-birmingham/87719

    Reciting Surah Fatiha behind the Imam | IslamQA
    Reciting Surah Fatiha behind the Imam...

    - - - Updated - - -

    That link above says it is makru tahrima (prohibitively disliked) to recite faatihah behind imam and this means it is sinful to do so, so don't recite at all in any rakaahs
    There are three different opinions on reading Surah Fatiha behind imam and scholars supporting their opinions have their own evidences. All Imams with the exception of Imam Abu Hanifa have considered reading Fatiha as one of the pillars of prayer. Anyways, three opinions are as below:

    1. Surah Fatiha shall not be recited behind Imam at all whether imam is silent or reciting out loud.
    2. Surah Fatiha shall be recited behind Imam whether Imam is silent or reciting out loud.
    3. Surah Fatiha shall be recited when Imam is silent and once should only listen to Imam when he is reciting out loud.

    I personally find third opinion more logical and the middle path between two extreme opinions. It gives one Khashu in Salah and have strong backing from Quran and ahadiths. I can talk about evidences for all three opinions in more depth if you need. You can practice whatever opinion seems more logical and convincing to you after looking at the evidences and Allah knows the best.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    There are three different opinions on reading Surah Fatiha behind imam and scholars supporting their opinions have their own evidences. All Imams with the exception of Imam Abu Hanifa have considered reading Fatiha as one of the pillars of prayer. Anyways, three opinions are as below:

    1. Surah Fatiha shall not be recited behind Imam at all whether imam is silent or reciting out loud.
    2. Surah Fatiha shall be recited behind Imam whether Imam is silent or reciting out loud.
    3. Surah Fatiha shall be recited when Imam is silent and once should only listen to Imam when he is reciting out loud.

    I personally find third opinion more logical and the middle path between two extreme opinions. It gives one Khashu in Salah and have strong backing from Quran and ahadiths. I can talk about evidences for all three opinions in more depth if you need. You can practice whatever opinion seems more logical and convincing to you after looking at the evidences and Allah knows the best.
    The topic of non mujtahids choosing the opinion that seems most supported by the evidence has been discussed at length previously and the opinion of the majority of scholars has been elucidated there that a non mujtahid cannot reach a right opinion simply because he does not have all the prerequisite knowledge that needs to be taken Into consideration. Here's the link for that thread :

    Four madhabs

    Look out for all of my posts on there as I have elaborated on every aspect why putting trust in one's madhab is the only righteous way for us.

    And here is a basic explanation:

    it is prohibited for other than a mujtahid to base his actions upon a direct text from either the Book or the Sunna even if its transmission was sound because of the sheer likelihood of there being other considerations such as abrogation, limitations, specificity to certain situations, and other such matters that none but the mujtahid fully comprehends with precision. Thus, nothing can save him from Allah the Exalted except following a mujtahid

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/mhfatwa.htm

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    The topic of non mujtahids choosing the opinion that seems most supported by the evidence has been discussed at length previously and the opinion of the majority of scholars has been elucidated there that a non mujtahid cannot reach a right opinion simply because he does not have all the prerequisite knowledge that needs to be taken Into consideration. Here's the link for that thread :

    Four madhabs

    Look out for all of my posts on there as I have elaborated on every aspect why putting trust in one's madhab is the only righteous way for us.

    And here is a basic explanation:

    it is prohibited for other than a mujtahid to base his actions upon a direct text from either the Book or the Sunna even if its transmission was sound because of the sheer likelihood of there being other considerations such as abrogation, limitations, specificity to certain situations, and other such matters that none but the mujtahid fully comprehends with precision. Thus, nothing can save him from Allah the Exalted except following a mujtahid

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/mhfatwa.htm
    It is a misconception that a Muslim should follow any one of these four schools of thoughts i.e. Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali or Maliki. There is no proof whatsoever in the Qur’an or any authentic Hadith that a Muslim should only follow one of these four Imams.

    Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) said, “If I have made a ruling which contradicts Allah’s book or the Messengers (saws) Hadith, reject my ruling” and “If a Hadith found to be Sahih (authentic), it is my Madhab."
    There are many authentic ahatheeths which contradict rulings of Imam Abu Hanifa, may be because Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslims were put together after the time of Imam Abu Hanifa. We as Muslims know that those ahatheeths are sahih but those who call themselves Hanfi will follow Imam Abu Hanifa's rulings and reject authentic ahathees. I will leave it up to you to decide if you want to be a blind follower of any madhab or try to learn Islam by spending some time to find the daleel (verification) from Sunnah and Quran.
    May Allah show us the right path and keep us on the right path until we die. Ameen!

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    It is a misconception that a Muslim should follow any one of these four schools of thoughts i.e. Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali or Maliki. There is no proof whatsoever in the Qur’an or any authentic Hadith that a Muslim should only follow one of these four Imams.



    There are many authentic ahatheeths which contradict rulings of Imam Abu Hanifa, may be because Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslims were put together after the time of Imam Abu Hanifa. We as Muslims know that those ahatheeths are sahih but those who call themselves Hanfi will follow Imam Abu Hanifa's rulings and reject authentic ahathees. I will leave it up to you to decide if you want to be a blind follower of any madhab or try to learn Islam by spending some time to find the daleel (verification) from Sunnah and Quran.
    May Allah show us the right path and keep us on the right path until we die. Ameen!
    The proof that those madhabs should be followed is multiple, one of them being the evidence in hadith that consensus of Scholars' should be followed and that consensus' can never be wrong.

    Also, necessity dictates that these madhabs should be followed... Check my 'alarm clock' example on link above.

    The four imams new all if the bukhari and Muslim hadiths, and when we put our trust in a hadith classification, we do taqlid of the hadith scholar, so how can we judge who is really right in their hadith judgement?. It us better to put trust in judgement of the classical Imams...

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    The proof that those madhabs should be followed is multiple, one of them being the evidence in hadith that consensus of Scholars' should be followed and that consensus' can never be wrong.

    Also, necessity dictates that these madhabs should be followed... Check my 'alarm clock' example on link above.

    The four imams new all if the bukhari and Muslim hadiths, and when we put our trust in a hadith classification, we do taqlid of the hadith scholar, so how can we judge who is really right in their hadith judgement?. It us better to put trust in judgement of the classical Imams...
    You've made multiple false statements in this post now whose cherrypicking and twisting evidence to follow his desires

    All your arguments against following contemporary ijtihad you are breaking by following contemporary ijtihad as to why you should follow a madhab

    Follow a madhab or dont I dont really care but at least have integrity in your arguments
    | Likes HabibUrrehman liked this post
    The shiekh is too fast!

    The sunnah is like the ark of Noah, whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned.~ Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him)

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi View Post
    You've made multiple false statements in this post now whose cherrypicking and twisting evidence to follow his desires

    All your arguments against following contemporary ijtihad you are breaking by following contemporary ijtihad as to why you should follow a madhab

    Follow a madhab or dont I dont really care but at least have integrity in your arguments
    Brother I'm sure there's other evidences but the consensus evidence is sound, check these hadith out :

    (16) Imam Hakim (1/116) has related a Sahih Hadith from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) in the following words: “My Ummah shall not agree upon error.”

    (17) Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who said: “Verily my Ummah would not agree (or he said the Ummah of Muhammad) would not agree upon error and Allah’s hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell.” (see also Mishkat, 1/173)

    The 'ummah' in above hadiths refers to scholars as agreeing or disagreeing does not apply to laymen

    And I only said the 'necessity' reason as I heard a shaykh mention it. He said, there were no alarm clocks in 7th century but if setting an alarm clock is what a person needs to get up for fajr, then this becomes a necessary act for him.

    From 3rd century onwards when Muslims were detached from the original Quranic Arabic and the Prophetic example became a thing of history (I. E. No longer present with the presence of sahabas etc) it became necessary for mujtahid imams to formulate and codify the fiqh of Islam so laymen could follow
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 1 Week Ago at 10:17 AM.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Let me just clarify that point about nesessity with a scholarly explanation :

    The point is that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) is no longer alive to personally teach us, and everything we have from him, whether the hadith or the Qur'an, has been conveyed to us through Islamic scholars. So it is not a question of whether or not to take our din from scholars, but rather, from which scholars.

    And this is the reason we have madhhabs in Islam: because the excellence and superiority of the scholarship of the mujtahid Imams--together with the traditional scholars who followed in each of their schools and evaluated and upgraded their work after them--have met the test of scholarly investigation and won the confidence of thinking and practicing Muslims for all the centuries of Islamic greatness. The reason why madhhabs exist, the benefit of them, past, present, and future, is that they furnish thousands of sound, knowledge-based answers to Muslims questions on how to obey Allah.

    Muslims have realized that to follow a madhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a comprehensive knowledge of the Qur'an and hadith texts relating to each issue he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions, when taqwa or "godfearingness" was the norm--both of which conditions are in striking contrast to the scholarship available today.

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhab.htm

  21. #17
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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Brother I'm sure there's other evidences but the consensus evidence is sound, check these hadith out :

    (16) Imam Hakim (1/116) has related a Sahih Hadith from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) in the following words: “My Ummah shall not agree upon error.”

    (17) Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who said: “Verily my Ummah would not agree (or he said the Ummah of Muhammad) would not agree upon error and Allah’s hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell.” (see also Mishkat, 1/173)

    The 'ummah' in above hadiths refers to scholars as agreeing or disagreeing does not apply to laymen
    First Ummah is not just scholars.
    Second we know scholars have difference of opinions and hence the reason why we have four madhabs. These differences are not minor by the way. These are very major issues.
    Third, you brought up few hadiths to defend your opinion, but there are hundreds of Sahih ahadeeths which are rejected by each school of thought just because those go against their rulings.

    One common problem is that a Hanfi does not want to read or investigate why other three imams hold a particular pinion. What are their evidences and how those compare to the evidence provided by Hanfi scholars for example. Many Muslims tend to follow just one madhab blindly and reject every other opinion even if the evidence is given from Quran and hadiths. I suggest you read opinions of all madhabs, check their evidences for any particular issue against Quran and Sahih hadeeths and decide what you want to follow.

    I know change is hard. We wonder why non Muslims can't convert to Islam. We wonder what is wrong with shias, why cant they see the obvious truth? We wonder why Qadiyanies believe in what they believe. The fact is that each one of us want to follow our forefathers more than anything else. If we are born and raised as hanfi then that has to be the only right way and vice versa. We all resist change and expect Islam to change our lives? Islam will not enter our hearts if we don't love Allah and His messenger more than anything else. If a hadith is Sahih and ruling is clear from hadith, there is no way around. We need to follow it to change our lives. We need to be people who listen and obey, not the people who cherry pick to fit religion in our lives. Religion should shape our lives not the other way around.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Let me just clarify that point about nesessity with a scholarly explanation :

    The point is that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) is no longer alive to personally teach us, and everything we have from him, whether the hadith or the Qur'an, has been conveyed to us through Islamic scholars. So it is not a question of whether or not to take our din from scholars, but rather, from which scholars.

    And this is the reason we have madhhabs in Islam: because the excellence and superiority of the scholarship of the mujtahid Imams--together with the traditional scholars who followed in each of their schools and evaluated and upgraded their work after them--have met the test of scholarly investigation and won the confidence of thinking and practicing Muslims for all the centuries of Islamic greatness. The reason why madhhabs exist, the benefit of them, past, present, and future, is that they furnish thousands of sound, knowledge-based answers to Muslims questions on how to obey Allah.

    Muslims have realized that to follow a madhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a comprehensive knowledge of the Qur'an and hadith texts relating to each issue he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions, when taqwa or "godfearingness" was the norm--both of which conditions are in striking contrast to the scholarship available today.

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhab.htm
    Once again you are contradicting yourself. Door of Ijtihad is not closed. I understand that doing Ijtihad is difficult and one need to be highly qualified to do Ijtihad. But that does not mean gates of ijtihad are closed. Gates of ijtihad are always open. Gates of ijtihad were open in the first century (H); they are open in this century too if there is a person who has the necessary conditions. It is wrong to say, "Gates of ijtihad were open from this date to this date but they were closed after that date." It is not up to us to close or to open them. Nobody has the authority to do it.

    There are many modern day issues for which we need to do Ijtihad and come up with ruling to address modern day issues. For example, the use of cell phone in the mosque. It is a modern day issue and did not exist at the time of these four Imams. The scholars who have given fatwas on modern day issues have lived in our time not at the time closer to Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

    Sorry if I sounded like too hard in my response. I need to say what I believe is truth and Allah knows the best. I seek guidance from Allah just like every Muslim does. I used to be Hanfi as well but over the years I have learned to accept only what is supported by Quran and Hadith. I ask Allah to guide me and everyone else to the truth. Verily Allah makes His path easy for those who ask for guidance.
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 1 Week Ago at 02:30 PM.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    First Ummah is not just scholars.
    Second we know scholars have difference of opinions and hence the reason why we have four madhabs. These differences are not minor by the way. These are very major issues.
    Third, you brought up few hadiths to defend your opinion, but there are hundreds of Sahih ahadeeths which are rejected by each school of thought just because those go against their rulings.

    One common problem is that a Hanfi does not want to read or investigate why other three imams hold a particular pinion. What are their evidences and how those compare to the evidence provided by Hanfi scholars for example. Many Muslims tend to follow just one madhab blindly and reject every other opinion even if the evidence is given from Quran and hadiths. I suggest you read opinions of all madhabs, check their evidences for any particular issue against Quran and Sahih hadeeths and decide what you want to follow.

    I know change is hard. We wonder why non Muslims can't convert to Islam. We wonder what is wrong with shias, why cant they see the obvious truth? We wonder why Qadiyanies believe in what they believe. The fact is that each one of us want to follow our forefathers more than anything else. If we are born and raised as hanfi then that has to be the only right way and vice versa. We all resist change and expect Islam to change our lives? Islam will not enter our hearts if we don't love Allah and His messenger more than anything else. If a hadith is Sahih and ruling is clear from hadith, there is no way around. We need to follow it to change our lives. We need to be people who listen and obey, not the people who cherry pick to fit religion in our lives. Religion should shape our lives not the other way around.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Once again you are contradicting yourself. Door of Ijtihad is not closed. I understand that doing Ijtihad is difficult and one need to be highly qualified to do Ijtihad. But that does not mean gates of ijtihad are closed. Gates of ijtihad are always open. Gates of ijtihad were open in the first century (H); they are open in this century too if there is a person who has the necessary conditions. It is wrong to say, "Gates of ijtihad were open from this date to this date but they were closed after that date." It is not up to us to close or to open them. Nobody has the authority to do it.

    There are many modern day issues for which we need to do Ijtihad and come up with ruling to address modern day issues. For example, the use of cell phone in the mosque. It is a modern day issue and did not exist at the time of these four Imams. The scholars who have given fatwas on modern day issues have lived in our time not at the time closer to Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

    Sorry if I sounded like too hard in my response. I need to say what I believe is truth and Allah knows the best. I seek guidance from Allah just like every Muslim does. I used to be Hanfi as well but over the years I have learned to accept only what is supported by Quran and Hadith. I ask Allah to guide me and everyone else to the truth. Verily Allah makes His path easy for those who ask for guidance.
    I never said any issues are minor, but that they differ in minority of opinions. Prophet (saw) said differences of opinions is a mercy, so this is how differences is allowed in fiqh.you may say this hadith is weak but there are other evidences too that even saahaba (ra) differed amongst themselves

    anyway brother this topic is always contentious and for a proper explanation see the links I posted in the four madhabs thread

    Regarding ummah not being just Scholars, see link to see multiple hadiths about the 'jamaah' being the rightly guided group of Muslims. There is a referenced quote in there of imam tirmidhi and also Imam anNawai saying jamaah refers to the largest group of scholars. Also imam munawi interprets this 'ummah' as largest group of scholars (I. E. What the majority of scholars' agree upon)
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 1 Week Ago at 04:33 PM.

  23. #19
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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    I never said any issues are minor, but that they differ in minority of opinions. Prophet (saw) said differences of opinions is a mercy, so this is how differences is allowed in fiqh.you may say this hadith is weak but there are other evidences too that even saahaba (ra) differed amongst themselves

    anyway brother this topic is always contentious and for a proper explanation see the links I posted in the four madhabs thread
    You become what you read, watch, and associate with.

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    Re: The shiekh is too fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    You become what you read, watch, and associate with.
    I've edited the last post. Read last addition above

    You accused hanafis of not wanting to look into other madhab evidences and now you're going to block yourself from evidences too


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