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stealing and unlawfull money

  1. #1
    dutchbeliever's Avatar Limited Member
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    stealing and unlawfull money

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    Assalaam aleykoem, my name is nick.

    I've been reading on this forum, and i am dealing with a problem, ive read much on the internet on islamic websites and haven't realy found the awnser,

    I have done some bad things in my life, like scamming people and stealing. at the time i was convinced in islam, but was not praying.

    also at the time, afcourse i knew stealing was wrong, but because of a lack of knowledge i thought i could allways repend and Allah would forgive me,

    At the moment im practising and praying and learning more about islam and the rights op people. And i realise that it is not that simple because people have rights.

    There is no way of ever finding out from who i stole or how much money it was total. i would like to have a clean record because i regret it much.

    Could you please advice me how?

    Also next question:

    I asked allah to give me a good income, and my dua was heard, i have a bussiness at the moment and making good money.
    But also recently i started thinking that maybe what im doing is also a kind of stealing or unlawfull money.
    Because with my company i charge an hourly rate, so i send invoices to the companys i work for, wich are big multinationals with a board of directors shareholders etc,
    When i make an invoice, or wright down my hours... i always over charge, because everyone does it and i realy didnt think about it for a long time i just did it because its acceptable in the companys. for example i work 5 minutes i charge an hour. sometimes i send invoices for jobs that we didnt even work, just because i know its acceptable.
    When i send my invoice there are a few people in the actual office of that company that look at the invoice and aprove it, they in there turn, copy my invoice add another like 500 eur and forward there invoice to there costumer.

    i would like to know if this is permissable? i allready started to make changes to do it more honoust, and also work with pre aproved fixed prices because realy i want to be honoust and have a clean record with allah.

    Can someone please help me and clarify? may allah bless you

    Kind regards,
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    *charisma*'s Avatar Super Moderator
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    Re: stealing and unlawfull money

    Walaikum Assalaam

    You have to find out a way to give back the property of the people you stole from. Stealing is a serious sin and is not to be taken lightly, so you must do your best to return the rights of the people you took from. You knew it was wrong when you did it, so it was not done in a state of ignorance. Rather it was done in a state of arrogance because you were sure that Allah will accept your repentance, when in reality you will not know until the afterlife whether you have been forgiven. If for whatever reason there is absolutely no way you can return what you stole to the rightful owners, then you should continue to repent and give in charity to those who need it.

    In regards to your job, you should charge people the market value of whatever it is you're selling. So if your hourly rates are market value and they are the same for all your customers, then it is fine. It always depends on the work you do and how specialized it is. For example the cost of five minutes with a specialized doctor is not the same as 5 minutes with a street cleaner.
    stealing and unlawfull money

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    MazharShafiq's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: stealing and unlawfull money

    format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    Walaikum Assalaam

    You have to find out a way to give back the property of the people you stole from. Stealing is a serious sin and is not to be taken lightly, so you must do your best to return the rights of the people you took from. You knew it was wrong when you did it, so it was not done in a state of ignorance. Rather it was done in a state of arrogance because you were sure that Allah will accept your repentance, when in reality you will not know until the afterlife whether you have been forgiven. If for whatever reason there is absolutely no way you can return what you stole to the rightful owners, then you should continue to repent and give in charity to those who need it.

    In regards to your job, you should charge people the market value of whatever it is you're selling. So if your hourly rates are market value and they are the same for all your customers, then it is fine. It always depends on the work you do and how specialized it is. For example the cost of five minutes with a specialized doctor is not the same as 5 minutes with a street cleaner.
    yes it is right.
    stealing and unlawfull money

    27y9utc 1 - stealing and unlawfull money
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    Supernova's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: stealing and unlawfull money

    format_quote Originally Posted by dutchbeliever View Post
    Assalaam aleykoem, my name is nick.

    I've been reading on this forum, and i am dealing with a problem, ive read much on the internet on islamic websites and haven't realy found the awnser,

    I have done some bad things in my life, like scamming people and stealing. at the time i was convinced in islam, but was not praying.

    also at the time, afcourse i knew stealing was wrong, but because of a lack of knowledge i thought i could allways repend and Allah would forgive me,

    At the moment im practising and praying and learning more about islam and the rights op people. And i realise that it is not that simple because people have rights.

    There is no way of ever finding out from who i stole or how much money it was total. i would like to have a clean record because i regret it much.

    Could you please advice me how?

    Also next question:

    I asked allah to give me a good income, and my dua was heard, i have a bussiness at the moment and making good money.
    But also recently i started thinking that maybe what im doing is also a kind of stealing or unlawfull money.
    Because with my company i charge an hourly rate, so i send invoices to the companys i work for, wich are big multinationals with a board of directors shareholders etc,
    When i make an invoice, or wright down my hours... i always over charge, because everyone does it and i realy didnt think about it for a long time i just did it because its acceptable in the companys. for example i work 5 minutes i charge an hour. sometimes i send invoices for jobs that we didnt even work, just because i know its acceptable.
    When i send my invoice there are a few people in the actual office of that company that look at the invoice and aprove it, they in there turn, copy my invoice add another like 500 eur and forward there invoice to there costumer.

    i would like to know if this is permissable? i allready started to make changes to do it more honoust, and also work with pre aproved fixed prices because realy i want to be honoust and have a clean record with allah.

    Can someone please help me and clarify? may allah bless you

    Kind regards,
    Aslaaamualaykum Nick - hope you are well InshAllah.

    Credit to you for realising where you went wrong as far as taking money/property that was not yours. Repent to the best you can, and since you cannot get to the people that your done wrong, it might be a worthy deed to estimate the value and pay the money as sadaqa.

    As far as the business issue is concerned, its a bit more technical.

    1. The norm of business today (Especially big businesses) is that even if a service takes 5 minutes, they pay a minimum of 1 hour and they happy to do so. Ex: If it took you 5 minutes and you billed them an Hour, this is the acceptable norm of business today so In that case there is no wrong in that.

    2. Same point continued - If you worked on the project for say 3 hours and 10 minutes, the business norm today is that they understand they will get billed for 4 hours. In other words no business really expects an invoice to reflect minutes !!! Businesses understand that the service provider will round off the minutes to the next hour.

    3. Since you working on an hourly rate, no business expects to be billed for 9 hours for a one hour job, so you have to be honest in this regard and apply point 1 or 2 above. Billing them for 9 hours as opposed to 1 hour work is breaking an unwritten ethic between the 2 parties and would be deemed as a wrong in Islam.

    4. To Bill a client for no work rendered is a 50/50 area depending on the terms and conditions. You have would have to revamp your terms and conditions. Certain Services do have a clause that a minimum charge will be applied even if no work is carried out. This is done to cover the businesses time for actually inspecting a product. This is totally Halaal But the client has to know this before hand. Example: A mobile phone repair person can tell the client that he can inspect the product for repair, and there will be a minimum charge for inspection even-though no repair might eventually take place.

    5. I am not sure about the last part regarding where the invoice gets amended by another party ( please elaborate)

    Shukran, be Safe , Asalaamualykum
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    dutchbeliever's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: stealing and unlawfull money

    hi people.

    thanks for the reply's i would like to add, that my invoices are looked at and accepted by multiple people in the company where i send the invoice to. so when i work 5 min and charge an hour also i have to fill in a hour form, on wich i need to lie in order to get the hours approved that i added. i changed my ways and now when i work for like 5 minutes i charge 15min because, afcourse nobody wants to pay to much and still for every job i have a little bit administration wich would add up to the full 15min

    Do you think i need to pay back the past over charging on invoices? this would mean im realy lost because its a lot

    as for the stealing goes this is like 10 years ago, and those where all deposits into my bank acount, unfortunatly my bank doesnt keep records for more then 7 years (i called them) i will give the money as sadaqa in there names and make dua for everyone i took it from on a daily basis

    i wich i knew all this befor everything took place, because now i realy feel lost.

    kind regards,

    nick
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    dutchbeliever's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: stealing and unlawfull money

    format_quote Originally Posted by Supernova View Post
    Aslaaamualaykum Nick - hope you are well InshAllah.

    Credit to you for realising where you went wrong as far as taking money/property that was not yours. Repent to the best you can, and since you cannot get to the people that your done wrong, it might be a worthy deed to estimate the value and pay the money as sadaqa.

    As far as the business issue is concerned, its a bit more technical.

    1. The norm of business today (Especially big businesses) is that even if a service takes 5 minutes, they pay a minimum of 1 hour and they happy to do so. Ex: If it took you 5 minutes and you billed them an Hour, this is the acceptable norm of business today so In that case there is no wrong in that.

    2. Same point continued - If you worked on the project for say 3 hours and 10 minutes, the business norm today is that they understand they will get billed for 4 hours. In other words no business really expects an invoice to reflect minutes !!! Businesses understand that the service provider will round off the minutes to the next hour.

    3. Since you working on an hourly rate, no business expects to be billed for 9 hours for a one hour job, so you have to be honest in this regard and apply point 1 or 2 above. Billing them for 9 hours as opposed to 1 hour work is breaking an unwritten ethic between the 2 parties and would be deemed as a wrong in Islam.

    4. To Bill a client for no work rendered is a 50/50 area depending on the terms and conditions. You have would have to revamp your terms and conditions. Certain Services do have a clause that a minimum charge will be applied even if no work is carried out. This is done to cover the businesses time for actually inspecting a product. This is totally Halaal But the client has to know this before hand. Example: A mobile phone repair person can tell the client that he can inspect the product for repair, and there will be a minimum charge for inspection even-though no repair might eventually take place.

    5. I am not sure about the last part regarding where the invoice gets amended by another party ( please elaborate)

    Shukran, be Safe , Asalaamualykum



    the money from the people i stole from i expect to be like 10k that i could pay back, But i dont even dare to calculate how much the overbilling is, realy i feel like i have no air in my lungs when i think of this...

    - - - Updated - - -

    format_quote Originally Posted by Supernova View Post
    Aslaaamualaykum Nick - hope you are well InshAllah.

    Credit to you for realising where you went wrong as far as taking money/property that was not yours. Repent to the best you can, and since you cannot get to the people that your done wrong, it might be a worthy deed to estimate the value and pay the money as sadaqa.

    As far as the business issue is concerned, its a bit more technical.

    1. The norm of business today (Especially big businesses) is that even if a service takes 5 minutes, they pay a minimum of 1 hour and they happy to do so. Ex: If it took you 5 minutes and you billed them an Hour, this is the acceptable norm of business today so In that case there is no wrong in that.

    2. Same point continued - If you worked on the project for say 3 hours and 10 minutes, the business norm today is that they understand they will get billed for 4 hours. In other words no business really expects an invoice to reflect minutes !!! Businesses understand that the service provider will round off the minutes to the next hour.

    3. Since you working on an hourly rate, no business expects to be billed for 9 hours for a one hour job, so you have to be honest in this regard and apply point 1 or 2 above. Billing them for 9 hours as opposed to 1 hour work is breaking an unwritten ethic between the 2 parties and would be deemed as a wrong in Islam.

    4. To Bill a client for no work rendered is a 50/50 area depending on the terms and conditions. You have would have to revamp your terms and conditions. Certain Services do have a clause that a minimum charge will be applied even if no work is carried out. This is done to cover the businesses time for actually inspecting a product. This is totally Halaal But the client has to know this before hand. Example: A mobile phone repair person can tell the client that he can inspect the product for repair, and there will be a minimum charge for inspection even-though no repair might eventually take place.

    5. I am not sure about the last part regarding where the invoice gets amended by another party ( please elaborate)

    Shukran, be Safe , Asalaamualykum



    the money from the people i stole from i expect to be like 10k that i could pay back, But i dont even dare to calculate how much the overbilling is, realy i feel like i have no air in my lungs when i think of this...
    chat Quote


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