× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Last
Results 1 to 20 of 35 visibility 1253
  1. #1
    m4rouf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    51
    Threads
    18
    Reputation
    208
    Rep Power
    27
    Likes (Given)
    43
    Likes (Received)
    25

    Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Report bad ads?

    Is this really something that Islamic teachings uphold?

    The reason this surprises me is that people’s emans fluctuate all the time. It may be so low at a point in someone’s life that they stop calling themselves Muslims but with Allāh’s guidance, what’s to say they won’t find their way back onto the right path?

    People could later become some of the best Muslims but they wouldn’t get the chance to repent and reach that stage if they’re executed.

    Just a couple of examples - the youtubers Way of Life SQ and Fousey Tube. They both even went as far as getting tattoos and denouncing their faith entirely but SubhanAllah they’ve reverted back to Islam and are helping others to find their way back too ما شاء الله.

    Is this ruling really enforced? Are exceptions made?

    This just really upsets me because I have people in my life who have denounced their faith in Islam but I pray every single day that Allah will guide them. I like to think that they will have the chance to come back - I can’t even fathom the thought of their execution and taking away that chance.
    | Likes Avis liked this post

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    Avis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    73
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    523
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    180
    Likes (Received)
    65

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by m4rouf View Post
    Is this really something that Islamic teachings uphold?

    The reason this surprises me is that people’s emans fluctuate all the time. It may be so low at a point in someone’s life that they stop calling themselves Muslims but with Allāh’s guidance, what’s to say they won’t find their way back onto the right path?

    People could later become some of the best Muslims but they wouldn’t get the chance to repent and reach that stage if they’re executed.

    Just a couple of examples - the youtubers Way of Life SQ and Fousey Tube. They both even went as far as getting tattoos and denouncing their faith entirely but SubhanAllah they’ve reverted back to Islam and are helping others to find their way back too ما شاء الله.

    Is this ruling really enforced? Are exceptions made?

    This just really upsets me because I have people in my life who have denounced their faith in Islam but I pray every single day that Allah will guide them. I like to think that they will have the chance to come back - I can’t even fathom the thought of their execution and taking away that chance.
    First, I didn't mean to like your post. I just use my cursor to follow along with the words when I am reading them and I accidentally clicked like.

    Anyways, I am not a scholar so don't take my words to heart. It would be best that you go to a Alim in your local masjid and have them try to clear your doubts about this serious matter. Now, as for the subject, I will tell you what I believe about it. Firstly, I believe that the punishment is for those who openly apostate and rebel against the state and/or try to corrupt the Islamic Society. You should read Brother Ahmad H's post here: Apostasy (it is the fourth post), he does a good job explaining it.

    Secondly, some people, no matter how many chances they get, will never believe or will believe but would outright reject Allah in order to live how they want. Rejecting Allah is the worst sin you could ever do. How could one reject Him with all the gifts and blessings He has given us? Look at how Merciful and Loving He is:

    Abu Dharr reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Allah Almighty says: Whoever comes with a good deed will have the reward of ten like it and even more. Whoever comes with an evil deed will be recompensed for one evil deed like it or he will be forgiven. Whoever draws close to me by the length of a hand, I will draw close to him by the length of an arm. Whoever draws close to me the by length of an arm, I will draw close to him by the length of a fathom. Whoever comes to me walking, I will come to him running. Whoever meets me with enough sins to fill the earth, not associating any idols with me, I will meet him with as much forgiveness.
    Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2687

    Allah already knows who are the believers and who are the dwellers of hell. If someone dies in the state of disbelief, then that is their fate. It doesn't matter if they get put to death by the state or die of natural causes.

  4. #3
    Nitro Zeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Romania, Bucharest
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,362
    Threads
    348
    Reputation
    825
    Rep Power
    17
    Likes (Given)
    181
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by m4rouf View Post
    Is this really something that Islamic teachings uphold?

    The reason this surprises me is that people’s emans fluctuate all the time. It may be so low at a point in someone’s life that they stop calling themselves Muslims but with Allāh’s guidance, what’s to say they won’t find their way back onto the right path?

    People could later become some of the best Muslims but they wouldn’t get the chance to repent and reach that stage if they’re executed.

    Just a couple of examples - the youtubers Way of Life SQ and Fousey Tube. They both even went as far as getting tattoos and denouncing their faith entirely but SubhanAllah they’ve reverted back to Islam and are helping others to find their way back too ما شاء الله.

    Is this ruling really enforced? Are exceptions made?

    This just really upsets me because I have people in my life who have denounced their faith in Islam but I pray every single day that Allah will guide them. I like to think that they will have the chance to come back - I can’t even fathom the thought of their execution and taking away that chance.
    No no

    Apostasy is not punishable by death.

    First of all, one can leave Islam any time he or she wishes. But, there are conditions which makes apostasy be punishable by death.

    Second of all, those who apostise from Islam and then sread terrorism should be punished by death by Islamic court

    Third of all, an apostate who spread hayred to others just to mislead Muslims and to shake the faith of Muslims can be put to death.

    But sadly, thoe who practice Capital Punishment on Apostasy, have totally misunderstood Quran and Sunnah. So, my answer won't benefit you even though it may be correct, because of what is happening in Middle East. The main problem of this, is becaus of huge misunderstanding about Shariah Law which the Muslim countries have.
    | Likes Supernova, m4rouf liked this post

  5. #4
    فصيح الياسين's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    pakistan
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    454
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    473
    Rep Power
    34
    Likes (Given)
    317
    Likes (Received)
    149

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus View Post
    No no

    Apostasy is not punishable by death.

    First of all, one can leave Islam any time he or she wishes. But, there are conditions which makes apostasy be punishable by death.

    Second of all, those who apostise from Islam and then sread terrorism should be punished by death by Islamic court

    Third of all, an apostate who spread hayred to others just to mislead Muslims and to shake the faith of Muslims can be put to death.

    But sadly, thoe who practice Capital Punishment on Apostasy, have totally misunderstood Quran and Sunnah. So, my answer won't benefit you even though it may be correct, because of what is happening in Middle East. The main problem of this, is becaus of huge misunderstanding about Shariah Law which the Muslim countries have.
    Dear nitro can you defend your view that no death penalty for apostates. Kindly elobarate us with strong proofs from quran or sunnah or ijmah ul ummah
    Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    قال النبي محمد صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم:*الـحياءُ شُعْبَةٌ مِنَ الاِيِمَانِ*
    و قال ايضا:*الحياء لاياتى الا بخير
    و قال ايضا:*اذا لم تستحي،فاصنع ما شئت*

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    Nitro Zeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Romania, Bucharest
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,362
    Threads
    348
    Reputation
    825
    Rep Power
    17
    Likes (Given)
    181
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين View Post
    Dear nitro can you defend your view that no death penalty for apostates. Kindly elobarate us with strong proofs from quran or sunnah or ijmah ul ummah
    The proof is from www.discover-the-truth.wordpress.com where it speaks about historical background for Quran 5:33 where it states that some group of Muslims have apostised from Islam and then have spread terror

    Also, another proof is from www.abuaminaelias.com where the authord have made things clear about the Laws of Apostasy and I find it very instresting and geniune explanation. From there I took this idea and have launched an article about Lesser Apostasy and Greater Apostasy.

    By the way, I go to Islamic websites whete it preaches what I believe in(i.e. justice, equality and freedom of religion)

    I have not said there is absolutely no punishment for apostasy. What I have said is that the interpretation for apostasy is wrong and I invite you to those websites for you to see what I'm trying to say.
    Last edited by Nitro Zeus; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:18 PM.
    | Likes m4rouf liked this post

  8. #6
    فصيح الياسين's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    pakistan
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    454
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    473
    Rep Power
    34
    Likes (Given)
    317
    Likes (Received)
    149

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Dear nirtous the first website i opened. Dose not have the adress.
    Secondly the ayah you mentioned is for bandits. And upon said by many fuqaha.
    For reference see tafseer kabeer. But tafseer kabeer is in arabic and also strong one and authentic.

    I passed my 7 years in madrasa and i never ever heard what you said.

    And the second web kindly specify the article adress so i can read their article fully. Thanking you
    Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    قال النبي محمد صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم:*الـحياءُ شُعْبَةٌ مِنَ الاِيِمَانِ*
    و قال ايضا:*الحياء لاياتى الا بخير
    و قال ايضا:*اذا لم تستحي،فاصنع ما شئت*

  9. #7
    Nitro Zeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Romania, Bucharest
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,362
    Threads
    348
    Reputation
    825
    Rep Power
    17
    Likes (Given)
    181
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين View Post
    Dear nirtous the first website i opened. Dose not have the adress.
    Secondly the ayah you mentioned is for bandits. And upon said by many fuqaha.
    For reference see tafseer kabeer. But tafseer kabeer is in arabic and also strong one and authentic.

    I passed my 7 years in madrasa and i never ever heard what you said.

    And the second web kindly specify the article adress so i can read their article fully. Thanking you
    Try to go to Wordpress and visit that website called: Discover-the-truth.com and go to their page called Most Misinterpretated Verses and see over there or just type Verses

    The article of the web which I'm talkin' about is Freedom of Religion and apostasy in Islam

    Have you thought about evolution in studies?
    Last edited by Nitro Zeus; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:37 PM.

  10. #8
    فصيح الياسين's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    pakistan
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    454
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    473
    Rep Power
    34
    Likes (Given)
    317
    Likes (Received)
    149

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    First i gave you reference from authentic book. Secondly what do you mean by evolving
    Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    قال النبي محمد صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم:*الـحياءُ شُعْبَةٌ مِنَ الاِيِمَانِ*
    و قال ايضا:*الحياء لاياتى الا بخير
    و قال ايضا:*اذا لم تستحي،فاصنع ما شئت*

  11. #9
    Islami.mu'min's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    107
    Threads
    27
    Reputation
    168
    Rep Power
    6
    Likes (Given)
    89
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    I don't believe it is punishable by death... I know it is what our classic scholars will say because of the hadith narrations that talk about this, but I think there is more to it.

    Look at these Quran narrations.
    And say: The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve.}*(Al-Kahf 18:29)

    He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement. This is because they love this world’s life more than the hereafter, and because Allah does not guide the unbelieving people. These are they on whose hearts and their hearing and their eyes Allah has set a seal, and these are the heedless ones. No doubt that in the hereafter they will be the losers.}* (An-Nahl 16:106-109)

    This second Quran narration is talking about the terrible punishment of the HEREAFER for these ex muslims. I don't think they can be punished now.


    I do understand that scholars will use hadith narrations to prove that you must kill an apostate, but isn't the Quran's word above the hadith? Some argue that there is no compulsion in Islam except that when it comes to apostates, they can be punished. But it doesn't make sense. An apostate is disbeliever just like any other disbeliever.

    The hadith cannot contradict the quran, otherwise it is authentic right? Either that hadith was authentic OR maybe the apostates back then were considered a threat because they could be of harm to the muslims or something.

    If anyone disagrees with me, I'd like to hear your opinion on this topic
    | Likes m4rouf liked this post

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    Nitro Zeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Romania, Bucharest
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,362
    Threads
    348
    Reputation
    825
    Rep Power
    17
    Likes (Given)
    181
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين View Post
    First i gave you reference from authentic book. Secondly what do you mean by evolving
    I mean, evolving in interpretation. Because, there are many ways of interpretating and looking, and I believe that the correct interpretation is by looking at the historical background for Quranic verses that talks about Apostasy.

    Seems like you are a Wahhabi))

    I believe that the teachers from the school you have been, have forgotten that their teachings can be wrong as I have shown you. And becausetheir teachings, this have lead many astray.
    Last edited by Nitro Zeus; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:15 PM.
    | Likes m4rouf liked this post

  14. #11
    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,088
    Threads
    38
    Reputation
    1568
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    208
    Likes (Received)
    392

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Al-Bukhaari (6922) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said:
    The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:
    Whoever changes his religion, put him to death.
    Al-Bukhaari (6484) and Muslim (1676) narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:
    It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a previously-married person who commits zina; and one who leaves his religion and separates from the main body of the Muslims.
    The general meaning of these hadiths indicates that it is essential to put the apostate to death whether he is waging war on Islam or not.
    An article of Islamqa has explained it in more depth and I have included that article towards the end of my post for reference.
    Please note these hadiths are from Sahih Bukhaari & Sahih Muslim. Anyone who has any doubts on the authenticity of these hadiths, should reflect deep down because these doubts will some day lead to bigger issues and it is better to close the door to such doubts before it is too late. Islam and its rulings are not based on our whims and desires. We need to represent Islam as is, there is no need to be apologetic or looking for more liberal interpretations to avoid the hard questions from the Western thinkers and liberals.

    Apostasy has been a crime which is punishable in every society because it break the fabric which units the society. Anyone who speaks against the society values has been murders or assassinated even by the most modern societies who think they value freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is only allowed to a certain extend and when it becomes problem to the people in power, people who speak against them are executed or assassinated. Why was Martin Luther King assassinated or why was Malcolm X assassinated? Its simply because they spoke about racial equality. Once the American government saw them as a threat, they assassinated them. Where was the so-called freedom of speech? Even today with black lives matter, how many people have been prisoned or murdered and there is no one to question the government.

    Anyways, my point is that, punishment for an apostate is part of every culture & society. Islam in that sense is not different from others. However, it does allow an ordinary apostate ( one who did not rage war against Islam by his words or actions) to repent. But in case of an extreme apostate ( one who rages war against Islam), death is the only punishment.



    Quoting directly from Islamqa website:

    The view that the apostate who is to be put to death is the one who is waging war on Islam (muhaarib) only is contrary to ahaadeeth. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said that the reason why he should be put to death is his apostasy, not his waging war against Islam.
    Undoubtedly some kinds of apostasy are more abhorrent than others, and the apostasy of one who wages war against Islam is more abhorrent than that of anyone else. Hence some of the scholars differentiated between them, and said that it is not essential to ask the muhaarib to repent or to accept his repentance; rather he should be put to death even if he repents, whereas the repentance of one who is not a muhaarib should be accepted and he should not be put to death. This is the view favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him).
    He said:
    Apostasy is of two types: ordinary apostasy and extreme apostasy, for which execution is prescribed. In both cases there is evidence that it is essential to execute the apostate, but the evidence indicating that the sentence of death may be waived if the person repents does not apply to both types of apostasy. Rather the evidence indicates that that is allowed only in the first case – i.e., ordinary apostasy – as will be clear to anyone who studies the evidence that speaks about accepting the repentance of the apostate. In the second type – i.e., extreme apostasy – the obligation to put the apostate to death still stands, and there is no text or scholarly consensus to indicate that the death sentence may be waived. The two cases are quite different and there is no comparison between them. It does not say in the Qur’aan or Sunnah, or according to scholarly consensus, that everyone who apostatizes in word or deed may be spared the death sentence if he repents after he is a captured and tried. Rather the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and scholarly consensus, differentiate between the different kinds of apostates.
    Waging war against Islam is not limited only to fighting with weapons, rather it may be done verbally such as defaming Islam or the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), or attacking the Qur'an, and so on. Waging verbal war against Islam may be worse than waging war against it with weapons in some cases.

    Reference:https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1423...-and-apostates
    | Likes Avis liked this post

  15. #12
    Nitro Zeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Romania, Bucharest
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,362
    Threads
    348
    Reputation
    825
    Rep Power
    17
    Likes (Given)
    181
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Al-Bukhaari (6922) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said:
    The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:

    Al-Bukhaari (6484) and Muslim (1676) narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:


    The general meaning of these hadiths indicates that it is essential to put the apostate to death whether he is waging war on Islam or not.
    An article of Islamqa has explained it in more depth and I have included that article towards the end of my post for reference.
    Please note these hadiths are from Sahih Bukhaari & Sahih Muslim. Anyone who has any doubts on the authenticity of these hadiths, should reflect deep down because these doubts will some day lead to bigger issues and it is better to close the door to such doubts before it is too late. Islam and its rulings are not based on our whims and desires. We need to represent Islam as is, there is no need to be apologetic or looking for more liberal interpretations to avoid the hard questions from the Western thinkers and liberals.

    Apostasy has been a crime which is punishable in every society because it break the fabric which units the society. Anyone who speaks against the society values has been murders or assassinated even by the most modern societies who think they value freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is only allowed to a certain extend and when it becomes problem to the people in power, people who speak against them are executed or assassinated. Why was Martin Luther King assassinated or why was Malcolm X assassinated? Its simply because they spoke about racial equality. Once the American government saw them as a threat, they assassinated them. Where was the so-called freedom of speech? Even today with black lives matter, how many people have been prisoned or murdered and there is no one to question the government.

    Anyways, my point is that, punishment for an apostate is part of every culture & society. Islam in that sense is not different from others. However, it does allow an ordinary apostate ( one who did not rage war against Islam by his words or actions) to repent. But in case of an extreme apostate ( one who rages war against Islam), death is the only punishment.



    Quoting directly from Islamqa website:



    Waging war against Islam is not limited only to fighting with weapons, rather it may be done verbally such as defaming Islam or the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), or attacking the Qur'an, and so on. Waging verbal war against Islam may be worse than waging war against it with weapons in some cases.

    Reference:https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1423...-and-apostates
    Wait but, is this kind of interpretation leads one to injustice!? I don't mean to argue or something, I just doubt about it's interpretation

    Have you went through www.discover-the-truth.wordpress.com and also on abuaminaelias.com at their article called "Freedom of Religion and apostasy in Islam"?

    On www.discover-the-truth.wordpress.com please visit their articles:

    1. Historical background for Quran 5:33

    2. Laws of Apostasy

    And at www.abuaminaelias.com please go to their article called "Freedom of religion and apostasy in Islam" and let me know what you think, ok?

    Personally, I believe that the interpretation of islamqa.info is a misinterpretation and misunderstanding actually.
    Last edited by Nitro Zeus; 1 Week Ago at 05:36 PM.

  16. #13
    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,088
    Threads
    38
    Reputation
    1568
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    208
    Likes (Received)
    392

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus View Post
    No no

    Apostasy is not punishable by death.

    First of all, one can leave Islam any time he or she wishes. But, there are conditions which makes apostasy be punishable by death.

    Second of all, those who apostise from Islam and then sread terrorism should be punished by death by Islamic court

    Third of all, an apostate who spread hayred to others just to mislead Muslims and to shake the faith of Muslims can be put to death.

    But sadly, thoe who practice Capital Punishment on Apostasy, have totally misunderstood Quran and Sunnah. So, my answer won't benefit you even though it may be correct, because of what is happening in Middle East. The main problem of this, is becaus of huge misunderstanding about Shariah Law which the Muslim countries have.
    We need to first understand when was the law of apostasy first implemented and why? And I hope this will help us understand the wisdom behind these punishments which may seem unjust at first glance but I hope you will see how this act leads to misguidance of many others and why capital punishment against apostates is justified when we look at the great harm to the society.

    Let's look into the Quranic verse 3:72
    [وَقَالَت طَّآئِفَةٌ مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَـبِ ءَامِنُواْ بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَجْهَ النَّهَارِ وَاكْفُرُواْ ءَاخِرَهُ]

    Translation: [And a party of the People of the Scripture say: "Believe in the morning in that which is revealed to the believers, and reject it at the end of the day,]

    This was a wicked plan from the People of the Book to deceive Muslims who were weak in the religion. They decided that they would pretend to be believers in the beginning of the day, by attending the dawn prayer with the Muslims. However, when the day ended, they would revert to their old religion so that the ignorant people would say, "They reverted to their old religion because they uncovered some shortcomings in the Islamic religion.'' This is why they said next.

    [لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ]
    Translation: [so that they may turn back.]
    Ibn Abi Najih said that Mujahid commented about this Ayah, which refers to the Jews, "They attended the dawn prayer with the Prophet and disbelieved in the end of the day in order to misguide the people. This way, people would think that they have uncovered shortcomings in the religion that they briefly followed.''

    This was the plot of the Jews to put doubts in the minds of new Muslims. And this was the first time, apostasy laws were put into practice.
    Same plot is being plotted by many non-Muslims now a days. They accept Islam, learn Arabic, become active in the community and later denounce Islam and start speaking ill about Islam on social media. If anyone thinks that these guys don't deserve death penalty for misguiding others than we have serious issues with our faith. We love people for the sake of Allah and we hate those who misguide people on purpose and who hate Islam.

    And Allah knows the best!
    Ma'aSalaam

  17. #14
    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,088
    Threads
    38
    Reputation
    1568
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    208
    Likes (Received)
    392

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus View Post
    Wait but, is this kind of interpretation leads one to injustice!? I don't mean to argue or something, I just doubt about it's interpretation

    Have you went through www.discover-the-truth.wordpress.com and also on abuaminaelias.com at their article called "Freedom of Religion and apostasy in Islam"?

    On www.discover-the-truth.wordpress.com please visit their articles:

    1. Historical background for Quran 5:33

    2. Laws of Apostasy

    And at www.abuaminaelias.com please go to their article called "Freedom of religion and apostasy in Islam" and let me know what you think, ok?

    Personally, I believe that the interpretation of islamqa.info is a misinterpretation and misunderstanding actually.
    By all means we should discuss such topics to get further clarity. I am not opposed to have these discussions. But we also need to be careful with our scholarly work. We can't simply reject the opinion of our well established scholars only because it goes against our own desires. What we need, is to look into the evidence provided by different scholars, look at how this issue has been understood historically by the companions and see if the opinion of these scholars align with our historical understanding of such issues.
    I also understand that apostasy laws are some times misused

    Have you went through
    www.discover-the-truth.wordpress.com
    and also on abuaminaelias.com at their article called "Freedom of Religion and apostasy in Islam"?
    I could not open this article.
    And at
    www.abuaminaelias.com
    please go to their article called "Freedom of religion and apostasy in Islam" and let me know what you think, ok?
    I just opened up this article and it is no surprise to see that this article compliments Islamqa's opinion on many levels. I think you are confused with the term minor apostasy, quoting directly from that article:
    Minor apostasy is when someone embraces Islam and later leaves the religion peacefully without causing harm to the community.
    Can you name a single Muslim who leaves Islam and remains peaceful, not talking bad about Islam on social media? If not, then they don't fall into the category of minor apostasy. 99.99 % apostates fall in the category of Major Apostasy which we all agree deserves death penalty.
    Someone’s abandonment of Islam does not decrease Allah in anything. Nor should it have any impact on our iman and our pursuit of our Lord.
    People want to throw themselves off the Ark? Yes it’s sad and yes we try our utmost to prevent that and help Muslims get off the ledge. But if people are insistent on their own destruction and have taken the plunge into the abyss, sorry, the rest of us can’t be bothered at that point. Put the drama aside. We have more important things to worry about. Like our own salvation and praying that what deluded such people doesn’t infect our own hearts.

  18. Report bad ads?
  19. #15
    Nitro Zeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Romania, Bucharest
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,362
    Threads
    348
    Reputation
    825
    Rep Power
    17
    Likes (Given)
    181
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    By all means we should discuss such topics to get further clarity. I am not opposed to have these discussions. But we also need to be careful with our scholarly work. We can't simply reject the opinion of our well established scholars only because it goes against our own desires. What we need, is to look into the evidence provided by different scholars, look at how this issue has been understood historically by the companions and see if the opinion of these scholars align with our historical understanding of such issues.
    I also understand that apostasy laws are some times misused


    I could not open this article.

    I just opened up this article and it is no surprise to see that this article compliments Islamqa's opinion on many levels. I think you are confused with the term minor apostasy, quoting directly from that article:

    Can you name a single Muslim who leaves Islam and remains peaceful, not talking bad about Islam on social media? If not, then they don't fall into the category of minor apostasy. 99.99 % apostates fall in the category of Major Apostasy which we all agree deserves death penalty.
    Someone’s abandonment of Islam does not decrease Allah in anything. Nor should it have any impact on our iman and our pursuit of our Lord.
    People want to throw themselves off the Ark? Yes it’s sad and yes we try our utmost to prevent that and help Muslims get off the ledge. But if people are insistent on their own destruction and have taken the plunge into the abyss, sorry, the rest of us can’t be bothered at that point. Put the drama aside. We have more important things to worry about. Like our own salvation and praying that what deluded such people doesn’t infect our own hearts.
    No no, this websites are not about following our whims and desires. It's about examing and analysing the Laws of Apostasy which is believed to be misused by even Saudi Arabia and to identify the error in the usage and to correct that error.

    This is what is all about.

    Lol, but how is it possible that you can't open up that link I provided?? It's really weird.

    Maybe also, because those people who apostised come from ignorant countries who misused Shariah Law and that is why they criticize Islam in Social Media. Have you thought of this?

  20. #16
    Avis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    73
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    523
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    180
    Likes (Received)
    65

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    By all means we should discuss such topics to get further clarity. I am not opposed to have these discussions. But we also need to be careful with our scholarly work. We can't simply reject the opinion of our well established scholars only because it goes against our own desires. What we need, is to look into the evidence provided by different scholars, look at how this issue has been understood historically by the companions and see if the opinion of these scholars align with our historical understanding of such issues.
    I also understand that apostasy laws are some times misused


    I could not open this article.

    I just opened up this article and it is no surprise to see that this article compliments Islamqa's opinion on many levels. I think you are confused with the term minor apostasy, quoting directly from that article:

    Can you name a single Muslim who leaves Islam and remains peaceful, not talking bad about Islam on social media? If not, then they don't fall into the category of minor apostasy. 99.99 % apostates fall in the category of Major Apostasy which we all agree deserves death penalty.
    Someone’s abandonment of Islam does not decrease Allah in anything. Nor should it have any impact on our iman and our pursuit of our Lord.
    People want to throw themselves off the Ark? Yes it’s sad and yes we try our utmost to prevent that and help Muslims get off the ledge. But if people are insistent on their own destruction and have taken the plunge into the abyss, sorry, the rest of us can’t be bothered at that point. Put the drama aside. We have more important things to worry about. Like our own salvation and praying that what deluded such people doesn’t infect our own hearts.
    One of the links didn't work for me and the other keeps giving me a warning not to enter so I couldn't read anything. My question is what does it say about the minor apostasy? Do they get put to death even if they keep quiet and still behave as a good member of society?

  21. #17
    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,088
    Threads
    38
    Reputation
    1568
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    208
    Likes (Received)
    392

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus View Post
    No no, this websites are not about following our whims and desires. It's about examing and analysing the Laws of Apostasy which is believed to be misused by even Saudi Arabia and to identify the error in the usage and to correct that error.

    This is what is all about.
    Internet is full of such articles who say apostasy is not a punishable crime. Should I learn my Deen from internet? I previusly advised you that if you are serious about your religion then make sure you learn Islam from authetic sources. Anyways Islam is perfect and we don't have any need to water down our teachings to please non-Muslims and liberals.
    There is a whole chapter about apostasy in Sahih Bukhari, please read that chapter. The link is below:
    https://sunnah.com/bukhari/88
    Quoting one hadith from Sahih Bukhari
    Narrated `Ali:
    Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

    حَدَّثَنَا عُمَرُ بْنُ حَفْصِ بْنِ غِيَاثٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبِي، حَدَّثَنَا الأَعْمَشُ، حَدَّثَنَا خَيْثَمَةُ، حَدَّثَنَا سُوَيْدُ بْنُ غَفَلَةَ، قَالَ عَلِيٌّ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ إِذَا حَدَّثْتُكُمْ عَنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم حَدِيثًا فَوَاللَّهِ، لأَنْ أَخِرَّ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ أَحَبُّ إِلَىَّ مِنْ أَنْ أَكْذِبَ عَلَيْهِ، وَإِذَا حَدَّثْتُكُمْ فِيمَا بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ فَإِنَّ الْحَرْبَ خَدْعَةٌ، وَإِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏ "‏ سَيَخْرُجُ قَوْمٌ فِي آخِرِ الزَّمَانِ، حُدَّاثُ الأَسْنَانِ، سُفَهَاءُ الأَحْلاَمِ، يَقُولُونَ مِنْ خَيْرِ قَوْلِ الْبَرِيَّةِ، لاَ يُجَاوِزُ إِيمَانُهُمْ حَنَاجِرَهُمْ، يَمْرُقُونَ مِنَ الدِّينِ كَمَا يَمْرُقُ السَّهْمُ مِنَ الرَّمِيَّةِ، فَأَيْنَمَا لَقِيتُمُوهُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ، فَإِنَّ فِي قَتْلِهِمْ أَجْرًا لِمَنْ قَتَلَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ ‏"‏‏.‏
    Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari 6930
    In-book reference: Book 88, Hadith 12
    USC-MSA web (English) reference: Vol. 9, Book 84, Hadith 64
    http://sunnah.com/bukhari/88/12
    ************
    Lol, but how is it possible that you can't open up that link I provided?? It's really weird.
    Not sure what's the reason, one other member said the same thing. It may has to do something with my internet security.
    ************
    Maybe also, because those people who apostised come from ignorant countries who misused Shariah Law and that is why they criticize Islam in Social Media. Have you thought of this?

    Misused Shariah law? Shariah law is not implemented in any Muslim country of our time and age to the best of my knowledge.
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 1 Week Ago at 10:52 PM.

  22. #18
    Nitro Zeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Romania, Bucharest
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,362
    Threads
    348
    Reputation
    825
    Rep Power
    17
    Likes (Given)
    181
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Internet is full of such articles who say apostasy is not a punishable crime. Should I learn my Deen from internet? I previusly advised you that if you are serious about your religion then make sure you learn Islam from authetic sources. Anyways Islam is perfect and we don't have any need to water down our teachings to please non-Muslims and liberals.
    There is a whole chapter about apostasy in Sahih Bukhari, please read that chapter. The link is below:
    https://sunnah.com/bukhari/88
    Quoting one hadith from Sahih Bukhari


    [QUOTE=Nitro Zeus;3029346]Lol, but how is it possible that you can't open up that link I provided?? It's really weird.
    Not sure what's the reason, one other member said the same thing. It may has to do something with my internet security.

    [QUOTE=Nitro Zeus;3029346]Maybe also, because those people who apostised come from ignorant countries who misused Shariah Law and that is why they criticize Islam in Social Media. Have you thought of this?[/QUOTE]
    Misused Shariah law? Shariah law is not implemented in any Muslim country of our time and age to the best of my knowledge.[/QUOTE]And what about Capital Punishments?

    Aren't they not part of Shariah Law?

  23. #19
    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,088
    Threads
    38
    Reputation
    1568
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    208
    Likes (Received)
    392

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Zeus View Post
    And what about Capital Punishments?
    Aren't they not part of Shariah Law?
    Yes of course, these are part of Sharia Law. What I meant is that Sharia law in it’s totality is not implemented by any Muslims country. You may see bits and pieces of Sharia law.
    Anyways come to original topic, I don’t see a single person who apostates and not talk bad about Islam. So even if we say for the sake of discussion that those who leave Islam peacefully have no capital punishment, we all agree that those who apostate and rage war against Islam with their words and actions should have a capital punishment.
    There are also few others things one should take into consideration such as is the apostate living in an Islamic state or not? If the apostate lives in a non Islamic country, then obviously there is no capital punishment. If someone lives in an Islamic country which has clearly stated a capital punishment for apostasy then it has to be carried out by the Justice system through proper channel in the presence of enough evidence and witnesses. Common people of any Islamic state has no right to take the law in their hand and start killing people at the name of apostasy/Blasphemy.

    And Allah knows the best!
    | Likes Avis, Islami.mu'min liked this post

  24. Report bad ads?
  25. #20
    Avis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    73
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    523
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    180
    Likes (Received)
    65

    Re: Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Yes of course, these are part of Sharia Law. What I meant is that Sharia law in it’s totality is not implemented by any Muslims country. You may see bits and pieces of Sharia law.
    Anyways come to original topic, I don’t see a single person who apostates and not talk bad about Islam. So even if we say for the sake of discussion that those who leave Islam peacefully have no capital punishment, we all agree that those who apostate and rage war against Islam with their words and actions should have a capital punishment.
    There are also few others things one should take into consideration such as is the apostate living in an Islamic state or not? If the apostate lives in a non Islamic country, then obviously there is no capital punishment. If someone lives in an Islamic country which has clearly stated a capital punishment for apostasy then it has to be carried out by the Justice system through proper channel in the presence of enough evidence and witnesses. Common people of any Islamic state has no right to take the law in their hand and start killing people at the name of apostasy/Blasphemy.

    And Allah knows the best!
    for your input. I wish more people would be willing to have a discussion like this without being uncivil about it.

    As for the topic, open apostasy is basically treason. What is the punishment for treason for most countries? Death.

    Here is what the U.S. says about treason:

    Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
    Sounds similar to the Shariah's punishment when it pertains to open apostasy.

    If they don't like the law, they can always go to a different country. Otherwise, if they rebel in a Muslim country, they deserve what they get.
    | Likes Islami.mu'min liked this post


  26. Hide
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Last
Hey there! Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death? Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Is Apostasy Really Punishable by Death?
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-18-2016, 05:55 PM
  2. Apostasy
    By AFR in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-23-2013, 10:17 PM
  3. Freedom of Religion & The Death Penalty? [Good Refutation on Apostasy]
    By - Qatada - in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 12-28-2009, 06:13 AM
  4. Death Penalty for Apostasy in Islam
    By Michael in forum Discover Islam
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-15-2009, 05:55 PM
  5. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 06-19-2007, 01:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create