Did you do the 2mins Silence for the 7/7 Victims

format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair

akhi,

Yes,civilians have been killed during those times,i won't deny that.

But once again,there is a difference between a Holy War and "i don't know who my target is,..but i'll blow myself up and kill any woman,man,child who is close enough..",don't you think?

:wasalaam:

Agreed.

format_quote Originally Posted by j4763

Well no disrespect but the minute silence was held in Britain for the people who died in Britain that day.
If you want to remember the fathers, husbands, brothers or whoever dying in other countries that’s up to you. But this was based in Britain and the silence held in Britain.

It’s a British thing, should we not hold a minutes silence for all the British who died in WW2 each year?

It may not do much for the dead, it may not do much for the maimed or the families who were effected. Its all about respect.



Then surly your brothers and sisters who died that day should be shown some respect too?

why do u need 2 mins silence? wot diference duz it make.. like u sed "It may not do much for the dead, it may not do much for the maimed or the families who were effected" so wotz the point in wastin 2mins of out life on tingz lyk dat.. if it duz the dead no good, the families or frendz, i dnt c no point.. silence is nowher near as powerful as prayer..

format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid

we show respect, i was talking to my british colleagues at work today. They agreed the two minutes silence is understandable and respect worthy but they didnt do it! Why? Because they spend enough time thinking about those who have suffered at the hands of terrorists...

exactly.. i agree wid u der bro..

aww. dats realy sweet.. i was at skool

format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk

i am not arguing they are right or wrong, i am saying they have legitimate evidence for their position that we all have to examine in detail and look at those scholars and question them who have a position for or against such a position.

I hope this reaches you in good health and in the best imaan.

Brother from the different works of ulama I have read upon and the imam I have spoken to none of them agree that suicide is permissible. So I’d appreciate it if you put forth evidence of their legitimate rulings. We draw our verdict from the Qur’an and Sunnah and there are immense ahadeeth and ayah that state clearly that suicide is haraam.

The prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) was advised not to go to war for 13 years. There is a message to the whole humanity about this wisdom.

Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) knows the intention of these men and for that I shall not transgress in what I say but make dua for them.

Furthermore, in regard to jihad (in this case we are addressing harbun muqaddasattun rather than the general term of Jihad). It becomes fard ayn upon Muslims to help brothers and sisters if they themselves can’t defend themselves. Therefore attacking London or New York is hardly going to help our suffering brothers and sisters in Chechnya, Iraq etc.

format_quote Originally Posted by Silver Pearl

I hope this reaches you in good health and in the best imaan.

Brother from the different works of ulama I have read upon and the imam I have spoken to none of them agree that suicide is permissible. So I’d appreciate it if you put forth evidence of their legitimate rulings. We draw our verdict from the Qur’an and Sunnah and there are immense ahadeeth and ayah that state clearly that suicide is haraam.

The prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) was advised not to go to war for 13 years. There is a message to the whole humanity about this wisdom.

Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) knows the intention of these men and for that I shall not transgress in what I say but make dua for them.

Furthermore, in regard to jihad (in this case we are addressing harbun muqaddasattun rather than the general term of Jihad). It becomes fard ayn upon Muslims to help brothers and sisters if they themselves can’t defend themselves. Therefore attacking London or New York is hardly going to help our suffering brothers and sisters in Chechnya, Iraq etc.

make dua 4 dem.. exatly.. the onli ting u cn do iz pray..

format_quote Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe

why do u need 2 mins silence? wot diference duz it make.. like u sed "It may not do much for the dead, it may not do much for the maimed or the families who were effected" so wotz the point in wastin 2mins of out life on tingz lyk dat.. if it duz the dead no good, the families or frendz, i dnt c no point.. silence is nowher near as powerful as prayer..

Did it not occur that many people (non-Muslim as well) may have used those 2 mins for praying too? Or just remembering the dead and hoping or try doing something to stop this ever happening again.

But in saying that what good has praying done to help our planet of recent years?

Out of everthing though its to show some respect for the dead.

What if a bomb had been blown up in a mosque in Britian, killed 60 odd Muslims and injured 100 others by some nutter, and a minutes silence was held one year later for them, would it be just as pointless and would you not see someone who refused to be quite for couple of minutes as disrespectful to your lost bros and sisters?

^ good point.

I think some people are forgetting that people in this country do things differently. A 2 minute silence is very important to people in the west (reasons for this will of course vary depending on the person) and allows some remembrance to occur. I think it's a nice thing actually, 'cus atleast they are making an effort.

Although, I do agree with the opinion that one should not just remember those lost on this one specific occasion - surely, it'd be better to remember them all the time?

The point is: this is how the west does it.

perhaps with the greatest respect you need to read more widely?

Most certainly, there are many books i wish to read upon and inshallah.

even relatively liberal modernist scholars like Yusuf al-Qadawi says martyrdom operations are permissable under certain circumstances.


it depends upon intention, if the intention is depression and to end life or anger or such like then yes it is clearly haram but if the intention is to kill the enemy and only use your body as a means of delivering the device then many ulema say it is impermissable.

remember sister actions are put by intentions, if someone is depressed with life and wishes to end it taking some enemies with him his intention was suicide but if some pious brother or sister hoping for the highest reward from Allah wishes to take out the enemies of Allah and realises that the most effective way of doing this is taking them with them then that is different.

besides,
those scholars who say such things are not allowed automatically have an advantage... they can speak as they like and not risk arrest, imprisonment and being flown by plane to morocco or syria to be buggered and tortured with electrodes and knives at george bush's will.

you might notice most of the mujahadeen scholars are either in prison, dead or in the battlefield and not really accessable to you or i.

even if martyrdom operations are permissable this does however not make this particular operation allowable, they're are many different factors to look into it which could still make it haram but i just refuse to condemn it until i have looked at all the evidence in enough detail.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

I understand where you're coming from, and you have raised some vital points.

However, all ask is for some daleel.You're right that intention is vital but we can't use this so ambigiously for it can be dangerous. I may consume alcohol although i didn't intentionally mean to get drunk. The rule does not always work.

I'm sure you know very well that fatwa are drawn on using the Qur'an and the sunnah as means to come to a conclusion. There are numerous daleel contradicting the allowance of Suicide. I just wish for quotes that could clear the matter.


Furthermore, those who carried out 7/7 and 9/11 targeted civilians. Anyone can see that and Islam clear forbids such actions. Like i stated it is fard ayn upon us Muslims to aid our brothers and sisters in the countries they are being oppressed in but it is not permissible (according to all the Imam i have spoken to) to attack and kill those who are innocent which occured in 7/7.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi

"Our hearts bleed for the attacks that has targeted the World Trade Center [WTC], as well as other institutions in the United States despite our strong oppositions to the American biased policy towards Israel on the military, political and economic fronts.

Sheikh Qaradawi was not agreeing upon the suicide bombers in London nor NY but rather those in Palestine. Circumstances there are very different.

I hope that makes sense.

May Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) fogive me for my errors.

format_quote Originally Posted by j4763

Did it not occur that many people (non-Muslim as well) may have used those 2 mins for praying too? Or just remembering the dead and hoping or try doing something to stop this ever happening again.

But in saying that what good has praying done to help our planet of recent years?

Out of everthing though its to show some respect for the dead.

What if a bomb had been blown up in a mosque in Britian, killed 60 odd Muslims and injured 100 others by some nutter, and a minutes silence was held one year later for them, would it be just as pointless and would you not see someone who refused to be quite for couple of minutes as disrespectful to your lost bros and sisters?

maybe for kaafirs it hasnt done much help, but 4 me.. prayers done so much help and datz y im a muslim and i pray..

i wudnt do a silence.. i wud pray 4 dem.. i dont nid 2 do any silence 4 anyone, its pointless.. and wots so respectable about it??? is it gonna help u in any way? is it goin 2 help da dead in any way? nope, but prayin will so wots the point of the "silence" 2 think abt da dead?

the only thing i wud find offensive if that did happen, is if people didnt hav no sympathy 4 da dead, if the muslimz or wateva religion u r didnt pray 4 dem.. 2 b honest i dnt care if dey dnt do 1 min silence

maybe it is sumfin the west do.. but i dnt wana take part in it n surely i hav that right?