When Woodrow mentioned about the Lipka Tatars in other thread.... suddenly I remembered my university years...
There are Chechens and Tatars in the university, while the Chechens are so determined with their independent state of Chechenistan ... the Tatars seems proud te be called as Russians.
For example, during Ramadhan... the Tatars would set up a stall selling "Russian food".... I mean .... do Tatars really feel that they belongs to Russia?
Russia Federation also sends their Quran Reciter each year to Kuala Lumpur International Koranic Recitation Competition.... so does this mean that Tatars are proud to be Russians?
My Grandfather had a strong military bearing. I was a bit of a radical. Back in my AF days us sky jockeys were not very well noted for following Military protocol. It was only on very rare occasions I ever even wore a uniform. I almost got court martialed over that, but that is another story.
Getting back to the Tatars. I beleive most including even those of us who are only part Tatar would love to seen an independent Tatar Nation in either the Baltic refion or Southern Russia. Seperate from the Russians, but on peaceful terms with them.
Language wise there is a difference between the Tatars of Tatarstan and the Lipkas of the Baltic regions, but the ancient heritage is the same. I believe the Lipkas used the Arabic alphabet longer then the people of Tatarstan did if the people of Tatarstan ever did use it. If I Recall Lithuania used the Arabic Alphabet from the 1200s till the mid 1700s and then briefly used the Roman alphabet finaly adopting the Cyrillic (Russian) Alphabet, which most Lithuanians still use.
Tatarstan Tatars used the Arabic script from 922 AD (officially, in fact, a little bit earlier) till 1920s (i.e. 1000 years!), then the Latin Alphabet for 10 years, and then the Russian Alphabet + 6 additional letters. In 1990s Tatars decided to restore the Latin Alphabet (it has many similarities with Turkish), officially it should be in 2001, but Russian government passed a law forbidding using any other alphabets for all nations, which live in Russian Federation, except the Cyrillic (Russian) alphabet. Otherwise, the national minorities will not be allowed to use their language as official in their national regions and republics. Tatar is official language in Tatarstan, everybody studies it at school, all documents are in Tatar and in Russian, so if Tatars change their alphabet now, they won't be able to use their language for official purposes and in education. Nevertheless, many sites in the Internet use both scripts now, or even only the Latin script...
It turns out that you did use the Arabic Script longer then us Lipkas did. That is good new. Now I am curious about the language differences. From my understanding Lithuanian, the adopted language of the Lipkas is of mid-eastern origin also but it seems to be a hybrid of Macedonian, Aramaic and Arabic. If I understand correctly the language in Tatarstan is closer to classical Arabic.
Do you have any knowledge if Lithuanian bears any resemblance to the old Tatar language? The Lipkas in Lithuanian had pretty much adopted the Lithuanian Language or esle formed into the Lithuanian Language.
Lithuanian and Letish are 2 languages that confuse Linguistic students as to their origin.
It turns out that you did use the Arabic Script longer then us Lipkas did. That is good new. Now I am curious about the language differences. From my understanding Lithuanian, the adopted language of the Lipkas is of mid-eastern origin also but it seems to be a hybrid of Macedonian, Aramaic and Arabic. If I understand correctly the language in Tatarstan is closer to classical Arabic.
Do you have any knowledge if Lithuanian bears any resemblance to the old Tatar language? The Lipkas in Lithuanian had pretty much adopted the Lithuanian Language or esle formed into the Lithuanian Language.
Lithuanian and Letish are 2 languages that confuse Linguistic students as to their origin.
What you've mentioned is news to me!
Actually Tatar language of Tatarstan is a Turkic language. And Turkic languages are Altaic languages.
Here are some Altaiic languages: Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, Manchurian and some others
Here are some Turkic languages: Turkish, Tatar, Azeri, Uzbek, Bashkir, Uighur, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Noghai, Kumyk, Yakut (Sakha), Khakas, Altai, Shor and so on, and so forth...
Whereas Arabic is a Semitic language...
Example of Tatar (the way to check whether you understand it or not):
Añlasañ - Tatarsıñ!
(If you understand, you are Tatar)
Actually we have many Arabic and Persian words in our language, but the origin of our language and culture is Asia, and the origin of Arabic is Africa.
Thank You, This is the most I learned of the True Tatar language from any source. I knew that the Lithuanian my family spoke was not related to the original Tatar, but because of the alphabet I assumed Tatar was based on Arabic.
Then again the old Lithuanian used the Arabic Alphabet too. Lithuanian also has a few Arabic words mixed in it.
Thank you for your replies, brothers, Jazak Allahu Khairan!
To Chechen: I completely understand you, I respect Imam Shamil who helped all Caucasians to save their freedom, but what can we do now? Yes, actually Tatars always dream of their own land, and it would be a muslim land... But we are in the middle of Russia, unlike Chechen Republic, so we can't dream of the freedom... Once we lost our war and we were defeated... In the beginning of 1990s Tatastan was about to do the same thing as Chechen Republic, but Russian tanks in Mari-El (near Tatarstan) didn't allow us to continue our movement. I remember we used to help Chechens with food and goods, but then we couldn't understand whom we had to help, because now many Chechens had given up... People are tired of war, now they want peace.... as a part of Russia, yes..... And do you know, I think it means that we've lost our Ummah (but Allah knows best)... Because since 1552 AD (or maybe much earlier) Muslims didn't help each other.... The same with Chechen republic... It's very difficult, but I completely understand you, brother! I had the same feelings several years ago, but now I've admitted that the freedom is impossible for us... We have not enough Muslims to help us... But at the same time now we want to create a Russian Empire, where muslims would feel like at home, and muslims would have rights to do what they must do as muslims!
Wassalam!
Of course I completely understand you it is very hard fighting Russia cause it's one of the most powerful countries in the world and the whole world is afraid to go against Russia plus they have nukes. But we still continue fighting them because we believe we can win. Chechens have always been great warriors and there's nothing we love more than freedom and that's why the Russians are afraid of us. They're afraid of us cause after 400 years they still haven't managed to beat us and we don't intend on stopping with our struggle. Yes of course many of our people have died and suffered but slowly the Russians are starting to realise that they cannot beat us cause we'd rather die than live as slaves to anyone. It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees...
I really don't know. But in Lithuania I suspect that the Tatars who were not deported became Christian by choice. They could not be defeated by the Crusades but finaly assimilated into the population.
I really don't know. But in Lithuania I suspect that the Tatars who were not deported became Christian by choice. They could not be defeated by the Crusades but finaly assimilated into the population.
yeah.. like lots of Muslim Arabs became Catholics in South america, because there are no mosques or people teaching Islam, thus they're assimilated into Latino comunities.
If memory serves me right most of the Siberian Tatars were from Eastern Europe and the Balkans and deported by the Russians to Siberia. The Causcasian Tatars were primarily Circassians who dominated the Causcaus mountains and were nearly exterminated by the Russians with some fleeing to Jordan were many still live in the vicinity of Petra.
The Circassians are a non-Arab Islamic people originally from the Caucasus region of western Asia. Southward Russian expansion during the 19th century forced between 1.25 and two million Circassians to emigrate south. Many of these perished along the way, but around one million reached the Ottoman Empire, where they settled first in the Balkans and later in the Levant region of the Middle East.
Circassians first arrived en masse in Jordan in 1878, where they settled in Amman, Wadi Seer and Na’ur. Today, Circassian populations can be found also in Jerash, Sweileh, Zarqa, Azraq and other parts of northern Jordan. Estimates of the Circassian population vary from 20,000 to 80,000.
The Ottomans managed the resettlement of the Circassians to some extent, recruiting them into the police and governmental structures. Until the 1940s, they continued to overwhelmingly prefer service in the army or government, but now they are represented in a diverse assortment of sectors and professions. Today, Circassian Jordanians are a well-educated people who continue to play a role in Jordan’s political, economic and social life, larger than their numbers would indicate.
Circassian culture places strong emphasis on respect for the elderly and closely-knit extended families. Marriage with anyone sharing the same surname of either parent is strictly forbidden. Circassians are also well known for their honesty. In fact, Jordanian Circassians constitute King Hussein’s ceremonial guard.
The Circassians are a non-Arab Islamic people originally from the Caucasus region of western Asia. Southward Russian expansion during the 19th century forced between 1.25 and two million Circassians to emigrate south. Many of these perished along the way, but around one million reached the Ottoman Empire, where they settled first in the Balkans and later in the Levant region of the Middle East.
Circassians first arrived en masse in Jordan in 1878, where they settled in Amman, Wadi Seer and Na’ur. Today, Circassian populations can be found also in Jerash, Sweileh, Zarqa, Azraq and other parts of northern Jordan. Estimates of the Circassian population vary from 20,000 to 80,000.
The Ottomans managed the resettlement of the Circassians to some extent, recruiting them into the police and governmental structures. Until the 1940s, they continued to overwhelmingly prefer service in the army or government, but now they are represented in a diverse assortment of sectors and professions. Today, Circassian Jordanians are a well-educated people who continue to play a role in Jordan’s political, economic and social life, larger than their numbers would indicate.
Circassian culture places strong emphasis on respect for the elderly and closely-knit extended families. Marriage with anyone sharing the same surname of either parent is strictly forbidden. Circassians are also well known for their honesty. In fact, Jordanian Circassians constitute King Hussein’s ceremonial guard.
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Quote
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks