izya=tax --you pay as citizen protected under the Muslim empire...
Where I come from, we call that "Protection Money". You give me money and I will protect you from me.
You are working on the opinion that they wanted the protection.
I'm sure that there were cases where that was true and they were glad.
I'm just as sure that there were cases where they considered those at the gate making the demand as the evil enemy.
anyway iam realy glad that Islam spread so far, realy intresting read. Yeah bak home in b'desh the 2 main guys where Shajalal and Shaforan. I think but sadly there is alot of bidha that goes on near the graves :enough!: Makes me so angry and sad at the same time.
Our preperation continued, with our efforts and the efforts of our brothers, for years and years. Through out that time we gathered, observed and waited until the moment to move arrived.
Where I come from, we call that "Protection Money". You give me money and I will protect you from me.
You are working on the opinion that they wanted the protection.
I'm sure that there were cases where that was true and they were glad.
I'm just as sure that there were cases where they considered those at the gate making the demand as the evil enemy.
I pay nearly someone's salary in taxes yearly... it feels unfair to me... considering how much of my life I sacrificed for my education and exactly the sort of undeserving people my money goes to, not to mention other governmental causes that don't suit my interest from wars to welfare programs to people whom are in fact able bodied and can get off their A$$ to go to work, who still at the end of the day come and give me grief because they think I am not entitled to my earnings... Do I complain? no I even pay a couple of extra hundreds to someone from H&R block to work on my forms and fork my money over...
These are the laws of this country to which I am a citizen and so I pay my dues...
peace
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Vast? Come pay my bills and then we can speak of vast...
and the point being... you don't like the concept of jizyah and I don't like the concept of taxes... but these are the laws of the land
Peace!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
well said now get bak 2 da topic....man i sound like a teacher
Our preperation continued, with our efforts and the efforts of our brothers, for years and years. Through out that time we gathered, observed and waited until the moment to move arrived.
Praise be to Allaah if you look at the history of the khulafah in islaam, such as the companion and successor of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him. Umar ibn Al Khattaab once saw an old jewish man begging people for money, he asked the man why he was begging, and the guy said he did it because he needed to pay his jizya tax. So Umar ibn Al Khattaab said that from now on - anyone who can't pay the jizya tax due to poverty doesn't have to pay it, and he also allowed the old man to get the money he needed from the muslim treasury [bait ul maal.]
No wonder so much people became muslim at that time in our history, alhamdulillah.
Our preperation continued, with our efforts and the efforts of our brothers, for years and years. Through out that time we gathered, observed and waited until the moment to move arrived.
Praise be to Allaah if you look at the history of the khulafah in islaam, such as the companion and successor of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him. Umar ibn Al Khattaab once saw an old jewish man begging people for money, he asked the man why he was begging, and the guy said he did it because he needed to pay his jizya tax. So Umar ibn Al Khattaab said that from now on - anyone who can't pay the jizya tax due to poverty doesn't have to pay it, and he also allowed the old man to get the money he needed from the muslim treasury [bait ul maal.]
No wonder so much people became muslim at that time in our history, alhamdulillah.
Hazrat Umar ibn Khattaab was really a great man. He was bold and result oriented. He didn't impose Islam just to make his rule strong over the people. He did the opposite of it. He used Islam for the service of people. Unlike the religious scholars who use the people to serve Islam, he never used people like this. He applied Islam to give good service to the people under his rule. He did a lot of ijtehad by deviating from some of rules of Islam to provide justice and relief to the people under his rule. If somebody with his kind of approach comes to Muslims today, then a vast majority of Muslims will elect him as their representative. (We're discussing this issue in another thread).
This topic is about the spread of Islam in the sub-continent. Muslim rulers who ruled in the sub continent made great buildings for themselves including great mosques to become famous. But they didn't serve the people with Islam. Therefore, the people of the sub-continet especially the common Muslims became very poor in the Muslim rule. The rulers, their courtiers, the sufis and their allies made a lot of wealth. Their decendant are still enjoying a plenty of wealth and privilleges in many parts of the sub continent.
Faith, to my mind, is a stiffening process, a sort of mental starch.
Men such as Haji Ali ( who was a Sufi.. a proper sufi ) helped spread islam in India.
After his death, some evil ( yes, Evil ) men decided to build a shrine ( In the Mahim Area ) so they could make an easy dollar here and there.
I visited the Haji Ali shrine to make dua for him, for all that he has done for Muslims in India. When i got there, i was unable to make dua for him, i couldn't wait to run away from there. The practises i saw happening were extremly disturbing.
Sufism is a joke in the subcontinents. But that doesn't mean Sufism itself a joke altogether. Just in the sub continents.
Dont Mistake My Harshness For Strength And Neither Mistake My Kindness For Weakness.
Men such as Haji Ali ( who was a Sufi.. a proper sufi ) helped spread islam in India.
After his death, some evil ( yes, Evil ) men decided to build a shrine ( In the Mahim Area ) so they could make an easy dollar here and there.
I visited the Haji Ali shrine to make dua for him, for all that he has done for Muslims in India. When i got there, i was unable to make dua for him, i couldn't wait to run away from there. The practises i saw happening were extremly disturbing.
Sufism is a joke in the subcontinents. But that doesn't mean Sufism itself a joke altogether. Just in the sub continents.
So you admit that sufism is a joke atleast in the sub-continent?
Are you 100% sure things were any better before the death of Sufi Ali?
Do you know that it's the same culture on the shrines of other Sufis?
Have you ever wondered why do the same kind of evil people take over the shrines of Sufis in the sub-continent?
Have you read the history of Sufisim in the sub-continent?
Do you know that the ancestors of these evil people invited and promoted different Sufis in their areas? Don't you know the seat holders (called Gaddi Naheens) of the Sufis were the forefathers of the same evil people? The seat ownership of the shrines travels down to the same family?
Last edited by iqbal_soofi; 03-30-2007 at 10:26 PM.
Faith, to my mind, is a stiffening process, a sort of mental starch.
So you admit that sufism is a joke atleast in the sub-continent?
I never denied it in the first place. From what i've witnessed, there is no Sufi in india. Just a bunch of people who indulge in Bida'h and try to cover up their sins by saying "we are sufis" and giving true sufis a bad name.
format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Are you 100% sure things were any better before the death of Sufi Ali?
From what i've heard of Sufi Ali, he was truly a man of god who did everything in his power to spread the Word of God and the Message of Prophet Muhammed. If he did commit any sins, i will pray for him that Allah swt overlooks it and grants him Heaven for all the good he has done.
format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Do you know that it's the same culture on the shrines of other Sufis?
In india you mean? Yes, i know.
Worldwide, not nessercerily.
format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Have you ever wondered why do the same kind of evil people take over the shrines of Sufis in the sub-continent?
Yes, because they are corrupted. It is as simple as A B C.
format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Have you read the history of Sufisim in the sub-continent?
No, i haven't. From what i've witnessed in India, i know for a fact that Sufism doesn't really exist in india... or in Pakistan. So i don't need to read a book about something which doesn't exist.
format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Do you know that the ancestors of these evil people invited and promoted different Sufis in their areas? Don't you know the seat holders (called Gaddi Naheens) of the Sufis were the forefathers of the same evil people? The seat ownership of the shrines travels down to the same family?
"He who practices Tasawwuf without learning Sacred Law corrupts his faith, while he who learns Sacred Law without practicing Tasawwuf corrupts himself. Only he who combines the two proves true."
I have nothing more to add to this discussion. I've said all i have to say.
Wa'salaam
Dont Mistake My Harshness For Strength And Neither Mistake My Kindness For Weakness.
Praise be to Allaah if you look at the history of the khulafah in islaam, such as the companion and successor of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him. Umar ibn Al Khattaab once saw an old jewish man begging people for money, he asked the man why he was begging, and the guy said he did it because he needed to pay his jizya tax. So Umar ibn Al Khattaab said that from now on - anyone who can't pay the jizya tax due to poverty doesn't have to pay it, and he also allowed the old man to get the money he needed from the muslim treasury [bait ul maal.]
No wonder so much people became muslim at that time in our history, alhamdulillah.
Great point bro Masha'Allaah.
Lets stay off of the sectarianism Insha'Allaah. It is enough a lesson on tasawwuf for us to merely read the biography of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyya, let alone Imam Ahmad.
“Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun
"It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl
Muhammad bin qasim was the one through which islam entered the sub-continent. It is said that Sindh is the gateway of islam, and he entered through Sindh to subcontinent.
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:enough!: Makes me so angry and sad at the same time.
Our preperation continued, with our efforts and the efforts of our brothers, for years and years. Through out that time we gathered, observed and waited until the moment to move arrived.
Where I come from, we call that "Protection Money". You give me money and I will protect you from me.
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