Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

[Grace Seeker]

How so?

You already know I see these issues differently, but you're entitled to your opinion, no need to continue going around the same points repeatedly. So, I'll just address your above quesiton:

What was their clue that it was him?

They knew him because he lives with them.

How so?

The Christian understanding is that God is not just some transcendent being who lives wholly apart from us, but that in Jesus of Nazareth he became incarnate and walked among us, and then in the Holy Spirit God actually becomes immament living within the individual. There are a number of scriptures that speak to different aspects of this, among them:
Acts 1:8 "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you"
Acts 4:31 "they were all filled with the Holy Spirit"
Acts 15:8 "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them"
Romans 2:29 "circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God."
Romans 8:11 (said in a context in which the condition describes is assumed to be true) "And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you..."
Galatians 4:6 "God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, 'Abba, Father'."
1 Corinthians 3:16 "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?"
Ephesians 2:22 "And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit."


So, because this is something that was true of the disciples, they knew the Spirit and would recognize his voice in the same way a baby caribou recognizes his mother's call in a herd of a thousand competing voices.


And because this connection with God is more intimate than that which Moses had, God actually does make a new covenant with those who know him this way:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds."

(Hebrews 10:15-16)​

And so it is not difficult at all for a Christian to accept that the Holy Spirit might have directed the apostles in their council. We still seek that same direction today, not just from the Bible, but directly from the Holy Spirit.

 

[mkh4JC]

The Christian understanding is that God is not just some transcendent being who lives wholly apart from us, but that in Jesus of Nazareth he became incarnate and walked among us, and then in the Holy Spirit God actually becomes immament living within the individual.

Just of note, this is why Christians have power over their lifestyle, because almighty God lives within them and through them, granting them the power to live out their lives victoriously, no matter what kind of past they may have.

 

[north_malaysian]

Just of note, this is why Christians have power over their lifestyle, because almighty God lives within them and through them, granting them the power to live out their lives victoriously, no matter what kind of past they may have.

Erm... if God lives within them...does it mean that in Christianity, God lives inside the body?

 

[mkh4JC]

Erm... if God lives within them...does it mean that in Christianity, God lives inside the body?

Man is composed of spirit, soul, and body. All of us are born spiritually dead. When you become Christian you become spiritually alive. God resides in a person's spirit.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Erm... if God lives within them...does it mean that in Christianity, God lives inside the body?

Well, remember too that God is Spirit, not taking up physical space. But if you've ever held people in your heart and mind, then I'm sure you can relate to this concept as well.

 

[Hamayun]

Just of note, this is why Christians have power over their lifestyle, because almighty God lives within them and through them, granting them the power to live out their lives victoriously, no matter what kind of past they may have.

Then shouldn't you guys quit the things forbidden in the Bible and start following it properly the way it was intended? And I am not referring to the revised versions that are modified to suit someones own private agenda...

 

[Grace Seeker]

Then shouldn't you guys quit the things forbidden in the Bible and start following it properly the way it was intended? And I am not referring to the revised versions that are modified to suit someones own private agenda...

I believe that on the whole we do, or at least most try to, though there is always room for improvement.

 

[fromgenesis]

Then shouldn't you guys quit the things forbidden in the Bible and start following it properly the way it was intended? And I am not referring to the revised versions that are modified to suit someones own private agenda...

It may be good to read Galatians. Christians are no longer under the law, but under grace. This means we do not have to do things to earn salvation, but that Christ had died for our sins and we live in His freedom. Not freedom to sin, but to live according to the spirit - with its own fruit.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

This issue still divides many people. That is why the letter to the Galatians were written - to show us that the law does not bring salvation.

 

[north_malaysian]

Man is composed of spirit, soul, and body. All of us are born spiritually dead. When you become Christian you become spiritually alive. God resides in a person's spirit.

I am further confused with your explanation....what are the differences between "spirit" and "soul"

 

[north_malaysian]

But if you've ever held people in your heart and mind

Yes... not only people but God too...

then I'm sure you can relate to this concept as well.

So, in your opinion does this concept exist in Islam too?

 

[Hamayun]

This means we do not have to do things to earn salvation, but that Christ had died for our sins and we live in His freedom.

Christ (Peace be upon him) died for your sins? :?


So are you saying:

He predicted the sins you were going to commit and committed suicide to sacrifice himself to please another God so the other God forgives your sins?

Or

He was able to defend himself when he was being crucified but decided not to defend himself so you don't have to worry about your sins in the future?

Or

He couldn't defend himself because you are sinners and God punished Christ for your sins?

Or

Christ is God (Nauzu-Billah) and God killed himself because he wanted another God to give you salvation?

Which one is it? Because all the above statements contradict with the concept of the "trinity".

I am totally confused now. :?

 

[ASeeker]

It is very unusual for a religion to feel the need to appropriate to itself other religious scriptures in order to justify itself. I have seen attempts made, by Muslims, to impose on Jewish, Christian, Hindu and Buddhist scriptures interpretations which those to whom those scriptures belong reject.

The attempt to ascribe Jesus' teaching about the Holy Spirit to Muhammad is wrongheaded and blasphemous. The Holy Spirit (or Comforter) is God present with us. Are Muslims claiming that Muhammad is God?

 

[fromgenesis]

Christ (Peace be upon him) died for your sins? :?


So are you saying:

He predicted the sins you were going to commit and committed suicide to sacrifice himself to please another God so the other God forgives your sins?

Or

He was able to defend himself when he was being crucified but decided not to defend himself so you don't have to worry about your sins in the future?

Or

He couldn't defend himself because you are sinners and God punished Christ for your sins?

Or

Christ is God (Nauzu-Billah) and God killed himself because he wanted another God to give you salvation?

Which one is it? Because all the above statements contradict with the concept of the "trinity".

I am totally confused now. :?

Not to worry about being confused. Maybe I can explain a little. The trinity is a concept that we formed from what is said about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit in the Bible, including the comments made by Jesus Himself. There is no specific reference to the trinity in the Bible. It is just the best we can do with our limited understanding.

As far as Jesus' sacrifice is concerned, we must look at the background. You know about the initial sin of man in the Garden of Eden. As a result of that sin, the pure relationship between God and man was broken. (You would know that sin brings separation between us and God)

God promised Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Thus the eventual overcoming of Satan was predicted.

Man (not only Adam) was cursed in that amongst other (Gen 3:17 : cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Restoration between God and man was however foreseen, not only by the text already referred to, but also by the prophets

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed

When Jesus died on the cross, he fulfilled not only the promise of God, but also what was prophesied as well as Jesus' own words
"Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

We have to bear in mind that God is a just God and must punish sin. It cannot go unpunished. He however took our sins upon Himself and thus took the penalty for sin that we would have had to bear.

As man is incapable of restoring the broken relationship with God, God took it upon Himself to do that, in love for mankind. We can now have a restored relationship with God (although it may not be as pure as it is in heaven as we are still subject to the lusts of the flesh)

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What the penalty for sin is, is in God's judgment. Do we ask God to explain His ways to us? There are those that will do that, but you will find a rebellious spirit in them.

Jesus said
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. also
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

From this it is evident that Jesus laid down His life voluntarily, and in accordance with the will of the Father.

It is my considered opinion that we stare ourselves blind against the fact of physical death. Spiritual death is what we have and what brings pain and separation between us and God. Jesus' words on the cross were not "Why did you let me suffer this cruelty?" but Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

I trust that in my simple manner, I have brought some form of light.

 

[Hamayun]

Brother fromgenesis,

Thank you for taking the time and the effort.

Even though I am not convinced I wanted to let you know that I appreciate your friendly and polite manner and your efforts

May God bless you brother and keep you away from sin

Peace.

 

[Keltoi]

Christ (Peace be upon him) died for your sins? :?

Yes

He predicted the sins you were going to commit and committed suicide to sacrifice himself to please another God so the other God forgives your sins?

Huh? To understand why Christ's death brought atonement for sin you must understand the Old Testament sacrificial system. In Mosaic Law, a pure animal would be sacrificed as a substitute for sin. Because the "the wages of sin is death." However, this system was never meant to be permanent. As Christ mentions Himself, following the Law was no longer enough. People were following the letter of the Law but not writing the Law on their hearts. That is the change that Christ would bring. Atonement, pure and eternal atonement for sin(grace), and a New Covenant in which God's Law is written on the heart.

He was able to defend himself when he was being crucified but decided not to defend himself so you don't have to worry about your sins in the future?

I suppose you could say Christ could have defended Himself and chose not to. That was the cup that God passed to Him.

He couldn't defend himself because you are sinners and God punished Christ for your sins?

God did not "punish" Christ. We did that ourselves. However, all is in God's plan. It was an act of mercy. As human beings are incapable of perfection, God gave us a path to eternal life that doesn't require perfection or a life devoid of sin.

Christ is God (Nauzu-Billah) and God killed himself because he wanted another God to give you salvation?

There is no "other" God. God did not "kill himself" either, God does not die. Only flesh and blood dies.

Which one is it? Because all the above statements contradict with the concept of the "trinity".

None of the above. Hence there is no contradiction.

I am totally confused now. :?

If you are confused, perhaps it is because you are stating things that Christians don't believe.

 

[Hamayun]

I suppose you could say Christ could have defended Himself and chose not to. That was the cup that God passed to Him.

Now there lies the dilemna...

God passed it to him??

To whom?? To Jesus??? (PBUH)

But how can that be??? when according to you Jesus is God?

 

[fromgenesis]

Brother fromgenesis,

Thank you for taking the time and the effort.

Even though I am not convinced I wanted to let you know that I appreciate your friendly and polite manner and your efforts

May God bless you brother and keep you away from sin

Peace.

Hamayun,

It is no problem what so ever. It is only in decent discussion that one will appreciate the other's point of view.

May God show His mercy and grace to you.

 

[Keltoi]

Now there lies the dilemna...

God passed it to him??

To whom?? To Jesus??? (PBUH)

But how can that be??? when according to you Jesus is God?

Because of Christ's duel nature. Christ lived on earth as a human being. With all the weaknesses and needs that we all have. As the Scripture states, Christ "emptied" Himself and became as a bondservant. What that really means is that Christ added humanity to His deity. He was "made in the likeness of men." In that role, He was submissive to the will of the Father. As all people should be.

 

[Hamayun]

He was "made in the likeness of men."

So you admit that he was "made"? By Whom?

If he was "made" then you have your answer my brother

Whoever "made" him is God and worthy of thanks and worship by Christians and Muslims alike.

Peace

 

[MustafaMc]

Hi guys, I wish to submit that there are other possibilities that will make the claim that Muhammad is referred to in the Bible, true, although not quite what you have in mind.

As an example
Gal 1:8 _But_ even if we or an angel out of heaven shall himself be proclaiming a gospel to you* besides [or, contrary to] what we proclaimed to you*, let him be accursed [Gr., anathema]!

Just a thought. It seems to suggest that a different "gospel" is preached by Muslims. There are many positive things being taught by Muslims, but if we considered the nature of their message, it may even suggest that it is from Satan himself (him definitely referred to in the Bible) .

The verse that you quoted actually referred to struggles that Paul was encountering during his life as further illustrated by his statement in Gal 2:11 But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. There indeed was a struggle between Paul and the Disciples primarily regarding the doctrine of works vs. faith. For that matter, the greater struggle may have actually been regarding the Divinity of Jesus, but that is not readily apparent in the NT.

Surprisingly, your proposition does not offend me though it may others. At the very least you had the courage to state what I am certain every Christian on the face of the planet earth believes about Prophet Muhammad (saaws) and Islam. However, you must also understand that I believe that same way towards your prophet, Paul, Gal 2:8 For He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles. and Christianity.

Why do I say this? Because we know Satan as speaking half truths (see Garden of Eden as the first example). We also know that Satan would like to destroy what God has done.

Satan wants to destroy the plans of God:

• Redemption through the sacrifice of Jesus.
• Salvation by grace and not through good deeds.

If you do not believe at least the above mentioned, Satan has been successful in keeping you from salvation and God's wish for you - to be with Him.

Please be assured that I do not say the above with any form or intention of malice. It is my position that you have a false religion (as you are sure I have) All I want to do is to put matters forward from my perspective.

:sunny:

... and likewise my contention from the position of a former Christian and present Muslim is that you are the one with a false religion as you your self acknowledged.

So if you believe that Jesus (as) is at the same time the Son of God yet fully God, then you disbelieve in the Oneness of Allah. Qur'an 5:72 Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins partners with Allah, Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers. You yourself have spoken a monstrously, blasphemous statement at which the very Heavens might crack, the earth might cleave asunder and the mountains might crumble to pieces.

You are exactly correct that Islam and Christianity are diametrically opposed despite having superficial similarities. Since they both can't be Divinely inspired, you are correct in that one must be a misguidance from Satan. Let us reflect for a moment:

The focus point of worship in all of Christianity is the human being, Jesus (as), son of Mary as being God who made the ultimate sacrifice for the redemption of mankind. Yet though some Christians lead very upright and moral lives, what is the extent of their worship? Remember theirs is a religion of faith not works lest any man boast.

The focus point of worship in Islam is the One God, Allah, without father, mother, son or daughter and to whom none is comparable. The Muslim worship of their Creator includes prescribed ritual prayer, fasting, charity tax and pilgrimage as prescribed by Allah and demonstrated by Prophet Muhammad (saaws). We forbid the wrong (murder, stealing, adultery, gambling, intoxicants, backbiting, slander, etc) and we promote the good (worship of Allah, charity, kind treatment of parents, modesty, honesty, etc).

Verily by their fruits you will know them. Allah will judge between us on that fateful Day and the ones who had True faith and who worshiped Him as we were created to do will be separated from those who did not.