aadil77
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Palestinian Holocaust Continues….
- Thread starter islamirama
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IslamicRevival
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Güven
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Of course, I never said we shouldn't wage Jihad and fight those who fight us. It would sadden me if you implied that. I was just answering to claims that God will help us, no matter what we do.. we can kill, we can maim and do all kinds of injustice and corruption etc. and yet God will help us? I doubt that.
:salamext:
You think? so we should not make dua's ? I AGREE we humans are sinners , some are hypocrites, some rapists, some murderers and worse...we need to change ourselves, change the state of the ummah , we need to fix it within ourselves before expecting Allah's help.
BUT but but dont forget no matter what the sin is EVEN if you worshipped other gods ....Allah will respond inshaAllah IF you sincerely call out on Allah alone and if you repent to Allah. the kindness of Allah is unimaginable for us humans.
you should NEVER lose hope on Alllah...NEVER!
I recommend you this short lecture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58g-ZNWxv20
Palestine needs our help and Dua's right now!
Fishman
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Yes, exactly what's wrong the the Ummah today, too many conspiracies to shift the blame to the other, not enough humility and Jihad to better oneself.
IslamicRevival
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Yes, exactly what's wrong the the Ummah today, too many conspiracies to shift the blame to the other, not enough humility and Jihad to better oneself.
Brother you have no idea!
Elaborate a little more on what you meant because i will not respond until you do
islamirama
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By no means am i excusing the violence that occurs in Muslim lands, every life is valuable and worth saving. I'm merely saying that it's different when outsiders come and kill you vs someone from within. What society doesn't have problems and crime in its land?
A clear example is of US and 9-11, here only 3,000 some people died and US went after iraq (not linked to 9-11) and massacred over 1 million civilians. Yet, how many americans die every year?
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Number of deaths for leading causes of death:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]
Top 6 causes = 1,678,843 dead
Trumble
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Same thing. Get real.
Yes, if your understanding of war is based on reality and not story books. As I said, that is what war always looks like and always has looked like.
And your point is? No, they are not targeting civilians. It is inevitable, however, that they will kill a great many of them even in this era of so-called 'smart' weapons. They aren't that smart, and neither are the people using them. Remember Hamas are doing their best to conceal military assets (often among civilian populations), not announcing to the Israelis where they are. It will get worse.. the only place Hamas can hurt the Israelis, and both sides are perfectly well aware of the fact, is in urban fighting, i.e. in environments where most of the civilians still are.
'Destroy'? 'Avenge'? You watch that video and yet all you want is more of it? Maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths? WISE UP!!
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Najm
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Peace
So your saying Hamas should let the Israeli Terrorists know where they are, so they can be killed my their "smart" weapons. Interesting.
You need to find yourself a map of Gaza, and know that theres a 1.7mil population prisoned all around the border, including sea and air controlled by the Israeli Terrorists. In the Worlds most densely populated area in the world , where do Hamas go? Where ever the fight takes place civilians will be there.
May Allah protect the strength and the wills of all Muslims. Ameen
Peace
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Trumble
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I said nothing of the sort. I simply stated an obvious fact.
IslamicRevival
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Why are you trying to justify this massacre by israel?
HAMAS HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG!! OPEN YOUR EYES!
IF SOMEONE KILLED YOUR FAMILY WOULDNT YOU WANT TO KILL THE PERSON WHO KILLED THEM?!!
YES!!!! THE PALESTINIANS ARE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF ISLAM AND MAY HAMAS DESTROY ISRAEL! MAY THEY DESTROY THEM! MAY THEY AVENGE EVERY SINGLE DEATH!
HAMAS WILL COME OUT OF THIS STRONGER THEN EVER
HEZBOLLAH DESTROYED ISRAEL AND HAMAS INSHALLAH WILL DO THE SAME!
Argamemnon
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Excuse me? What kind of question is that? Did you not read my post that you quoted. I'm utterly amazed at how you could have asked this question. It's a big mystery. Very very strange question indeed.
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Trumble
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I'm not trying to justify it. I am saying that when war occurs, civilians die. Hence the only way to avoid civilians dying is to have peace, not war.
Hamas have always put their own objectives ahead of the interests of the Palestinian people, the civilian deaths are a price they are willing to pay. I'm afraid it is you that needs to open your eyes.
Probably. Although that doesn't mean it would necessarily be a good idea. However, we are not talking about 'a person', we are talking about people's, states and tens or hundreds of thousands of lives.
They won't 'avenge' them, they will just cause many more of them. I understand your anger, but that's the way it is in the real world.
islamirama
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peace can only be gained when occupation ends. How can there be peace when a land is occupied, it's inhabitants oppressed, massacred and forced to live as refuges...for 60 years!
Argamemnon
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True, there is a clear oppressor (a dominant), and on the other hand the oppressed (the dominated). When Hamas wasn't there, and Arafat and the PLO were in power, they gave Israel all it wanted and got nothing in return. Well, they did get something; more massacres and oppression. This is the truth, it's not empty rhetoric, but a fact. I hope all non-Muslims will acknowledge this too. The terrorist is Israel here.
Greetings and peace be with you Troubled Soul;
There is another and greater way to respond, read the following story of two fathers whose children were killed
Ghazi Briegeith & Rami Elhanan
Ghazi Briegeith, a Palestinian electrician living in Hebron, and Rami Elhanan, an Israeli graphic designer from Jerusalem, met through the Parents’ Circle – a group of bereaved families supporting reconciliation and peace. Ghazi’s brother was killed at a checkpoint in 2000. Rami’s 14-year-old daughter was the victim of a suicide bombing in Jerusalem in 1997.
Rami
I was on my way to the airport when my wife called and told me Smadar was missing. When something like this happens a cold hand grabs your heart. You rush between friends’ houses and hospitals, then eventually you find yourself in the morgue and you see a sight you’ll never forget for the rest of your life. From that moment you are a new person. Everything is different.
At first I was tormented with anger and grief; I wanted revenge, to get even. But we are people – not animals! I asked myself, “Will killing someone else release my pain?” Of course not. It was clear to my wife and I that the blame rests with the occupation. The suicide bomber was a victim just like my daughter, grown crazy out of anger and shame.
I don’t forgive and I don’t forget, but when this happened to my daughter I had to ask myself whether I’d contributed in any way. The answer was that I had – my people had, for ruling, dominating and oppressing three-and-a-half million Palestinians for 35 years. It is a sin and you pay for sins.
At first I foolishly thought I could just go back to work and resume my life, but the pain was unbearable. Then, a year later, I met Ytzhak Frankenthal, the founder of the Parents’ Circle. He was wearing a ‘kippah’ on his head, and immediately I stereotyped him as an ‘Arab eater’. Even when he told me his personal story, and about the reconciliation work of Parents’ Circle, I was very cynical.
He invited me to a meeting, and reluctantly I went along, just to take a look. I saw buses full of people, among them legends – parents who had lost kids in wars and who still wanted peace. I saw an Arab lady in a long black dress. On her chest was a picture of a six-year-old kid. A singer sang in Hebrew and Arabic, and suddenly I was hit by lightening. I can’t explain it, but from that moment I had a reason to get up in the morning again.
Since then my work with the Parents’ Circle has become the centre of my life, a sacred mission. If we – Ghazi and I – can talk and stand together after paying the highest price possible, then anyone can. There is a high wall between our two nations, a wall of hate and fear. Someone needs to put cracks in the wall in order for it to fall down.
Ghazi
You need a ticket to belong to the Parents’ Circle – the ticket is to have lost a member of your close family. This means Rami and I are brothers of pain.
My own brother was killed in 2000 at the beginning of the Intifada. I’d been with him just minutes before he died. As I was walking home I heard a shot. I found out later he’d been stopped and searched at the checkpoint. When he protested, the soldier shouted, “Shut your mouth, or I’ll shoot you, you son of a *****,” to which my brother replied: “YOU son of a *****!” So the soldier shot him. It was a machine gun in a kid’s hand. Sometimes the power makes them mad.
At first I was completely out of my mind – crazy with grief. There should be no forgiveness for the killers of innocents, and yet even then I saw the soldier as a victim of the occupation just as my brother was, just as I am still. But forgiveness is a very personal thing. Even if I choose to forgive the person who killed my brother, I can’t force my brother’s kids to forgive. But I can show them that far more valuable than a violent response, is opening your heart to reconciliation and peace. I can show them that opening a new page is their only hope of living a better life than ours.
The Palestinians have nothing left to lose, so the Israelis must realise that they are destroying their own nation by causing so much suffering. You don’t need to love each other to build a bridge between the two nations: you need respect. If I can stand with my Jewish brother Rami, respecting him as he respects me, then there is hope.
http://www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories/ghazi-briegeith-rami-elhanan
In the spirit of praying for mercy and forgiveness
Eric
There is another and greater way to respond, read the following story of two fathers whose children were killed
Ghazi Briegeith & Rami Elhanan
Ghazi Briegeith, a Palestinian electrician living in Hebron, and Rami Elhanan, an Israeli graphic designer from Jerusalem, met through the Parents’ Circle – a group of bereaved families supporting reconciliation and peace. Ghazi’s brother was killed at a checkpoint in 2000. Rami’s 14-year-old daughter was the victim of a suicide bombing in Jerusalem in 1997.
Rami
I was on my way to the airport when my wife called and told me Smadar was missing. When something like this happens a cold hand grabs your heart. You rush between friends’ houses and hospitals, then eventually you find yourself in the morgue and you see a sight you’ll never forget for the rest of your life. From that moment you are a new person. Everything is different.
At first I was tormented with anger and grief; I wanted revenge, to get even. But we are people – not animals! I asked myself, “Will killing someone else release my pain?” Of course not. It was clear to my wife and I that the blame rests with the occupation. The suicide bomber was a victim just like my daughter, grown crazy out of anger and shame.
I don’t forgive and I don’t forget, but when this happened to my daughter I had to ask myself whether I’d contributed in any way. The answer was that I had – my people had, for ruling, dominating and oppressing three-and-a-half million Palestinians for 35 years. It is a sin and you pay for sins.
At first I foolishly thought I could just go back to work and resume my life, but the pain was unbearable. Then, a year later, I met Ytzhak Frankenthal, the founder of the Parents’ Circle. He was wearing a ‘kippah’ on his head, and immediately I stereotyped him as an ‘Arab eater’. Even when he told me his personal story, and about the reconciliation work of Parents’ Circle, I was very cynical.
He invited me to a meeting, and reluctantly I went along, just to take a look. I saw buses full of people, among them legends – parents who had lost kids in wars and who still wanted peace. I saw an Arab lady in a long black dress. On her chest was a picture of a six-year-old kid. A singer sang in Hebrew and Arabic, and suddenly I was hit by lightening. I can’t explain it, but from that moment I had a reason to get up in the morning again.
Since then my work with the Parents’ Circle has become the centre of my life, a sacred mission. If we – Ghazi and I – can talk and stand together after paying the highest price possible, then anyone can. There is a high wall between our two nations, a wall of hate and fear. Someone needs to put cracks in the wall in order for it to fall down.
Ghazi
You need a ticket to belong to the Parents’ Circle – the ticket is to have lost a member of your close family. This means Rami and I are brothers of pain.
My own brother was killed in 2000 at the beginning of the Intifada. I’d been with him just minutes before he died. As I was walking home I heard a shot. I found out later he’d been stopped and searched at the checkpoint. When he protested, the soldier shouted, “Shut your mouth, or I’ll shoot you, you son of a *****,” to which my brother replied: “YOU son of a *****!” So the soldier shot him. It was a machine gun in a kid’s hand. Sometimes the power makes them mad.
At first I was completely out of my mind – crazy with grief. There should be no forgiveness for the killers of innocents, and yet even then I saw the soldier as a victim of the occupation just as my brother was, just as I am still. But forgiveness is a very personal thing. Even if I choose to forgive the person who killed my brother, I can’t force my brother’s kids to forgive. But I can show them that far more valuable than a violent response, is opening your heart to reconciliation and peace. I can show them that opening a new page is their only hope of living a better life than ours.
The Palestinians have nothing left to lose, so the Israelis must realise that they are destroying their own nation by causing so much suffering. You don’t need to love each other to build a bridge between the two nations: you need respect. If I can stand with my Jewish brother Rami, respecting him as he respects me, then there is hope.
http://www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories/ghazi-briegeith-rami-elhanan
In the spirit of praying for mercy and forgiveness
Eric
Israel is entirely within its rights to undertake this action and I am very happy that they are doing it, only sad that it took so long.
This action is not against Gazans but is against HAMAS, a murderous band of scum who besmirch the reglion of many people posting here. To ignore the scope of HAMAS while criticising the Israeli actions smacks of hypcrisy. To use the word "Holocaust" in this regard is obscene.
Read the HAMAS Charter, especially Articles 7, 22, and 32. Then talk about ISrael being "oppressive" and "brutal." Allow your children and wife to live within 12 seconds of a bomb shelter for 2 years day in, day out as 100,000 Israelis have been doing and THEN criticise Israel.
May Israel finish this operation fast so that Gazans may rest easier but not until they have completed their objective, neutralising HAMAS.
This action is not against Gazans but is against HAMAS, a murderous band of scum who besmirch the reglion of many people posting here. To ignore the scope of HAMAS while criticising the Israeli actions smacks of hypcrisy. To use the word "Holocaust" in this regard is obscene.
Read the HAMAS Charter, especially Articles 7, 22, and 32. Then talk about ISrael being "oppressive" and "brutal." Allow your children and wife to live within 12 seconds of a bomb shelter for 2 years day in, day out as 100,000 Israelis have been doing and THEN criticise Israel.
May Israel finish this operation fast so that Gazans may rest easier but not until they have completed their objective, neutralising HAMAS.
Ummu Sufyaan
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i heard one has been confirmed dead (may there be many more to follow, ameen) and also 7 Israeli tanks have been destroyed. :shade:
alhamdulillah, may Allah make them victorious
it just gna be another sabra and shatila.
the way it'll end it that some how the Israelis are gna make themselves look like the heroes. id cut my two hands off if that didn't happen.
"A column of Israeli tanks and artillery, and armored personnel vehicles has made its way through from the eastern part of Gaza, reaching as far as the Mediterrannean sea on the Western part, essentially splitting Gaza.
id like to see how "tough" this isali army is without the back up the US. how can you possibly be strong, when who your invading have the barest minumum to fight back! yh, shows how "tough" you are :hmm:
what a load of c***
yep, another sabra and shatila indeed...
Humanitarian crisis
Israel, meanwhile, extended its naval blockade of Gaza early on Sunday, from six nautical miles to 20 nautical miles, preventing humanitarian aid and protest vessels from trying to break the siege.
Around 9,000 military reservists have been called up to assist in the ground assault.
tell him to go and shove it where the sun don't shine.
you can say that again!!!
so that's why the whole of Gaza is blocked off from the world. not to mention power lines cut, overflowing hospitals, prevention of aid...
oh and how could i hace fortten this. yh, im sure as heck only "hamas" is being targeted
yh, your about 10 days too late
and what a lying dog!!! what a snake!!! is that why the hospitals are overflowing! oh just read my above quote!
ameen.
thanks.
you have got to be jokin ^o) why should the paestians surrounder, when it is clearly isral the enemy!!!
arent they?! so why is gaza spilt in two!!! why is there electricity/fuel shortages. not targeting civilians. you are only kidding yourself. just see my previous quotes. its like im whacking my head against a brick wall!!!
no, we dont want more of it! but we don't want to surrender either. and why should we!!! god, if i were on the grounds of gaza, id cut my two hands off before i bowed down to those pigs.
yh, typical. only "smart comments" like that would come from a jewish pig such as yourself. im not surprised at all. not at all.
would you guys just come out with something new!!! i mean seriously, this is just getting as old as moldy cheese!
Gaza is split in two now, and still use that half-a$$ argument.
maybe this will wake you up.
oh but being a Jewish snake, you wouldn't wanna show that to the world. ahh how very typical of your type.
the whole world know your crimes. even the non-Muslims protest!!! but, hey i guess you Jewish people don't notice that. you know, after all, your heads are stuck up your backside a lil too deeply.
aww, whats the matter there. why, feeling abot jealous r we now!? feel that only that word should be exclusive to you Jews after Hitler...
well my my, looks like someones got a little competition and cant handle it /sarcasm over...
aww, well poor Israel
looks like they cant handle "what goes round comes around." /sarcasm overneutralize!!! why don't they neutralize their terrorist army, before they try neutralize anyone else!!!
Thinker
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And got nothing in return – what about the Clinton deal offered in 2000 . . . . . . . . .
“Clinton told Arafat that by turning down the best peace deal he was ever going to get - the one offered by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and brokered by Clinton in July 2000, the Palestinian leader was only guaranteeing the election of Ariel Sharon. Arafat didn't listen; Sharon was elected in a landslide victory and escalated the crackdown on the Palestinians”.
Thinker
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This is what Arafat turned down . . .
What was offered and what took place at the Camp David and Taba negotiations:
1. Yasser Arafat presented no ideas at Camp David.
2. The Taba talks would have happened in late September if not for the outbreak of violence. Arafat knew the US was ready to make a proposal and thus promised to control the violence, but didn't. (I think he was hoping that he could leverage the violence into political gain.)
3. All of Gaza and a net of 97% of the West Bank were offered at Taba.
4. The West Bank area offered was contiguous, not "cantons".
5. The Jordan valley would be under Israeli patrol for only 6 years.
6. The Palestinians were offered a capital in eastern Jerusalem.
7. There would be a "Right of Return" to the nascent Palestinian state.
8. A $30 Billion fund to compensate refugees would be set up.
9. Taba was rushed due to Clinton's, not Barak's, end of term.
10. Members of the PA delegation thought Taba was the best they could hope to get and encouraged Arafat to accept it.
11. Arafat accepted everything he was given at Taba, but rejected everything HE was supposed to give.
12. Arafat scuttled the Camp David offer. Arafat scuttled the Taba offer. Arafat scuttled the Mitchell plan. Arafat scuttled the Tenet plan. Arafat scuttled the Zinni plan.
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/000555.html