God/Allah working in our lives

[glo]

When we debate the trinity in this forum, we usually focus on the person of Jesus, and whether or not we believe him to be God.
I am not interested in another trinity discussion, and I am hoping that this won't turn into one ...

Instead in this thread I would like to explore the Muslim view of God's Spirit, and if there is such a concept.

Let me start by saying what I perceive the Holy Spirit to be - God's spirit/guidance/presence in my life, which prompts me, encourages me and directs me (providing I am willing to listen and follow).
Sometimes I wonder whether others might refer to it as 'conscience' or 'intuition'. For me it is God's influence and guidance in my life, and the more I listen the more I become aware of that presence.

Now, please, please, please, not getting sidetracked by whether the Holy Spirit is God, part of God, separate from God, inside or outside of God ... :rollseyes
can you tell me if - as a Muslim - you have a sense of God working in such a way?
A sense of God actively being present in your life?

Muslims have given me different views on this, so I would be interested in your personal thoughts and opinions.

And also - if relevant - give example of God's Spirit having worked/working in your lives.
(Hey, if you play your cards right this could turn into a dawah thread!! )

Looking forwards to your replies.

Peace

 

[malayloveislam]

Re: Holy Spirit

Holy Spirit in Islam and in my personal opinion as a Muslim referring to Archangel Gabriel (pbuh). He is the emissary of Allah to prophets for good news and revealing scriptures. Angels in Islam are the creations of Allah just like human-being and genies.

فاتخذت من دونهم حجابا فأرسلنآ إليها روحنا فتمثل لها بشراسويا

17 Thus she (Mary) placed a screen (to screen herself) from them: then We sent to her Our angel and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

The word in bold and underlined is RuuHana means Our Spirit. It refers to Archangel Gabriel, and Allah use "We" to refer Himself because it is the King language. Allah is the King of Universe, the God worshiped by all creations.

Angels got no choice but to obey Allah's orders, human-being and genies may choose either doing good or bad because Allah had grants human-being and genies desires. Angels were first created by Allah from the lights. Human-being from earth, and genies from the extremely hot flame. The first genie is Devil (Iblis, his other name is Azazel), in Christianity he was viewed as fallen angel. The first human is Adam, the second human is Eve. Muslim brothers and sisters, anything wrong please correct me, thank you.

 

[glo]

Re: Holy Spirit

That's interesting, malayloveislam. Thank you for your reply.

In that sense God's Spirit is more like messenger sent by God. Is that right?
Rather than something that is part of God himself?

Any other thoughts?

Do Muslims experience God's direct guidance in their lives? If so, how?
After all, not all of us are visited by angels ...

 

[Grace Seeker]

Re: Holy Spirit

Holy Spirit in Islam and in my personal opinion as a Muslim referring to Archangel Gabriel (pbuh). He is the emissary of Allah to prophets for good news and revealing scriptures. Angels in Islam are the creations of Allah just like human-being and genies.

If angels are creations just like human beings and genies, then aren't they material beings? I would think that a spirit would not be a material being. Is that just a preconception that I need to get over? Or, does the concept of speaking of matter mean that we are talking about two different things when discussing an angelic being and God's spirit?

 

[coddles76]

Re: Holy Spirit

Allah SWT sent down his guidance through his messengers, Angels and Prophets. These words of wisdom and guidance is enough for us to step through life and protect ourselves in the best possible way. His words as spread out in the HOLY QURAN in the form of guidance and teachings is what sticks in my head and allows me to move through life. I personally don't see this as his spirit but his guidance which was sent down through his messengers.

 

[جوري]

Re: Holy Spirit

there is no 'God' spirit'-- and there is no 'God' son' I think it is really a very difficult concept of Christians to grasp. God has to be human or have a spirit..
how about:

[Say: He is Allah, the indivisible; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.] (Al-Ikhlas 112)​

 

[Woodrow]

Re: Holy Spirit

Peace Glo,

Having been Christian and having had experienced the "Holy Spirit" I believe I still have the same type of experience as described by Christians. But, now I do not attribute it to a personal filling of Allaah(swt). I now see it as a deeper understanding of Allaah(swt) by my own senses being more aware of the power of Allaah(swt). I think of it more in terms of an awakening and a better use of the gifts of observation that I was unaware of.

 

[Danah]

Re: Holy Spirit

Interesting topic Glo!

To be honest I have never get the concept of the Holy spirit in Christianity and I still trying to learn what exactly it is......but never mind


In Islam....
How can we sense Allah existence with us?
lets take this scenario..
If you are locked in a room and you are all alone by yourself, and you are sure that you are alone in that room. Then you figured out that there is someone watching you from a camera hanging in the wall......here you will know that you are not alone and there is someone looking and watching over you through that camera, right?
the same thing applied for hearing.....you will know that there are someone is hearing you while you cant hear him

This is exactly how it is in Islam....Allah hearing, seeing, guidance is all with us.

There is no way we can hide from his seeing or hearing. You don't have to be a believer to be watched or heard by Allah.....simply he is watching every single creature in this world. The main difference between Islam and Christianity is that Allah don't have to form himself in other forms (human, or spirit) to be able to be with us. He can watch us while he is on his throne.....that's why he is the all mighty one..

and He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah is Seer of what ye do.
[4:75]

When I hear a Christian say something about protection, some of them said:
"May the Holy Spirit protect you or be with you" I don't hear someone said: "May the God father protect you".....its as they are specifying each person of the trinity to do a certain job....I don't know, may be someone can correct me if I am wrong on this.

Peace..

 

[glo]

Re: Holy Spirit

Peace Glo,

Having been Christian and having had experienced the "Holy Spirit" I believe I still have the same type of experience as described by Christians. But, now I do not attribute it to a personal filling of Allaah(swt). I now see it as a deeper understanding of Allaah(swt) by my own senses being more aware of the power of Allaah(swt). I think of it more in terms of an awakening and a better use of the gifts of observation that I was unaware of.

Thank you for your reply, Woodrow.
And thank you that for the sake of this thread we can consider God's spirit outside the context of the trinity.

I appreciate the wording you use, and I can relate to it well.
"Being filled with God" seems to be very much the same thing which happened to the disciples at Pentecost.

I especially like your concept of "tuning one's own senses to become more aware of the power of God". :statisfie

Do you feel that God prompts or guides you on a personal level in daily things?

Peace

 

[glo]

Re: Holy Spirit

there is no 'God' spirit'-- and there is no 'God' son' I think it is really a very difficult concept of Christians to grasp. God has to be human or have a spirit..

Interesting topic Glo!

To be honest I have never get the concept of the Holy spirit in Christianity and I still trying to learn what exactly it is......but never mind

Peace..

I seems that for some Muslims the thought of God having a 'spirit' which works in our lives is unthinkable.
Could that be to do with having it reinforced that there is no trinity, hence no spirit and no son. (Skye expresses that quite clearly)

Perhaps it is useful to draw from Woodrow's (non-Christian) terminology.
Do any of you experience God in such ways, which Woodrow describes? (See above)

Peace

 

[malayloveislam]

Re: Holy Spirit

If angels are creations just like human beings and genies, then aren't they material beings? I would think that a spirit would not be a material being. Is that just a preconception that I need to get over? Or, does the concept of speaking of matter mean that we are talking about two different things when discussing an angelic being and God's spirit?

Human had both physical and spiritual body. Angels are different. They were created from light. Through modern science what do you think light looks like? Can you touch the lights? Genies too are in spirit forms. That is why they can take any form they want with the permission of Allah (Glorified be His name).

Spirits of the creations all is created by Allah. Angelic creations and Allah are different. They are in spirit form but not Allah. They are the same as human-being and genies, His slaves. Allah is the Creator. Creations and Creator are different things. Sorry this is a bit metaphysical.

SURAH AL-HIJIR (QURANIC VERSES)

بسم الله الرحمان الرحيم

ولقد خلقنا الاءنسان من صلصال من حماء مسنون 26 والجآن خلقناه من نار السموم 27 وإذ قال ربك للملاءكة إنى خالق بشرا من صلصال من حماء مسنون 28


TRANSLATION OF SURAH AL-HIJIR (NOT QURAN)

GLOSS TRANSLATION (NOT QURAN):

In the name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful

Indeed We had created human-being (Adam) from the dry clay which is originated from black mud which was given form 26 And the genie We created him before human-being from extremely hot fire (the heat of the fire may absorbed into the pores of human-being skin) 27 And (remember), when G-d says to to the angels: "Indeed, I created human-being from the dry clay originated from black mud which was given form 28

TRANSLATION OF SEVERAL TRANSLATORS

Verse 26

YUSUFALI: We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
PICKTHAL: Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,
SHAKIR: And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape.

Verse 27

015.027
YUSUFALI: And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.
PICKTHAL: And the jinn did We create aforetime of essential fire.
SHAKIR: And the jinn We created before, of intensely hot fire.

Verse 28

015.029
YUSUFALI: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
PICKTHAL: So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him.
SHAKIR: So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down making obeisance to him.

It is Allah SWT alone who guides us. Angels or any spirits had no Power over Him to guide human-beings or genies. They are just the honorable slaves of G-d .

 

[Danah]

Re: Holy Spirit

I seems that for some Muslims the thought of God having a 'spirit' which works in our lives is unthinkable.

I said I am still learning the concepts......not only learning the spirit, but learning the whole trinity thing as a whole

Could that be to do with having it reinforced that there is no trinity, hence no spirit and no son. (Skye expresses that quite clearly)

immm...not really, I am answering your question regardless of what the others said :rollseyes

Perhaps it is useful to draw from Woodrow's (non-Christian) terminology.
Do any of you experience God in such ways, which Woodrow describes? (See above)

yeah.....this is what I mean, Allah's hearing and seeing is with us....actually I am sensing Allah existence with me ALL the time. I don't feel that I am living all by my own. I feel his power supporting me in whatever I do whenever I go. I sense his guidance when I go through hardships as if there is a power strengthen me whenever I feel weak....its an amazing feeling!!

hope that help glo

 

[malayloveislam]

Re: Holy Spirit

Peace Glo,

I think that I experience guidance from Allah when I revert back to Islam. I don't think it is the spirit of G-d who guides me but rather Allah Himself. If Allah doesn't guide me, I will still be lost without any guidance even if people around me like my parents stuffing things from the scripture (Quran) and etc. I believe that He is the One who had opened up my heart to repent from Syirk (I had almost associating Allah with other things). It happens slowly when I faced personal conflicts and do not know where to consult or to whom to speak my problems.

Once I returned back from pilgrimage to Holy City Mecca, I found that everything in myself starting to change and my faith toward Allah SWT increasing. Allah had planned everything, it will goes according to what has been decreed. Allah is the Administrator of this Universe, of course He is monitoring us wherever we are. He is always close to us and never leaving us once we open up our heart and giving ourselves a chance. This is my personal experience.

Holy Spirit in our scripture referring to Archangel Gabriel (pbuh). Archangel Gabriel is the one who had saved baby Moses in Pharaoh Palace through the permission of G-d. Archangel Gabriel too who had brought good news to mother Maryam (Allah SWT be merciful and pleased with her) and Archangel Gabriel too who had brought revelation to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) which is al-Quran all under the order of Allah SWT.

Archangel Gabriel too had came to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in front of his companions and followers in the form of human-being. There is a Hadith for this. Archangel Gabriel taking the form of a man and asking several things concerning the religion (Islam).

Narrated by Abu Hurairah (may Allah pleased with him): one day the messenger of Allah (pbuh) appeared among Muslims. Suddenly came a man from no where asking the prophet: 'O messenger of Allah, what is Iman (faith)? He answered: "Believing in Allah SWT, believing in His angels, believing in the scriptures revealed by Allah SWT, believing in the Day when we will be judged, believing in His prophets and messengers and the day where all the human being will be ressurected to be judged.

The man then further asked: ' What is Islam?'

Allah's messenger (pbuh) answered: 'Islam is when you worship Allah without any association to Him whether from the things in heaven or earth, performing obligatory prayers, paying the zakah (tithe), and saum (fasting) in the month of Ramadhan.'

The man the asked: 'O Allah's messenger, what is Ihsan (Charity)?'

Prophet (pbuh) answered: 'It is when you worship Allah SWT as you see Him. And if you can't see Him, remember that He is always seeing you!'

The man then asked: 'O Allah's messenger, when is the Dooms Day?

Prophet (pbuh) answered: 'The person who asked me even knows more than I am. But I will tell you what are the significant events marking the Dooms Day; When a master was born by a lady (daughters enslaving her mother), that is among the things marking that the Day is almost near. When a pauper became the leader of humans, when the shephards are proud of their pavillion. Those are five things marking near Dooms Day that are informed by Allah SWT to me.

Later prophet (pbuh) recites the verses (Quran): Translation; Indeed Allah, only He is the One who possess the knowledge about the Dooms Day; and He is the One who had made the rain pours down, and He is the One who knows what is in the ovary of a female. And nobody knows (certain) about what will happen to what he had worked on tomorrow. And nobody knows in which land will he die. Indeed, Allah is the most Knowledgable over all. (If anyone recognize this surah please give me the name, thanks and I pray for your peace).

After that the unknown man gone and prophet (pbuh) asking his companions to call that man back but they noticed that he had gone. Prophet (pbuh) says: ' That is Gabriel, he came to teach human-being concerning some problems related to their religion (Islam).'"

(Sahih Bukhari no. 48, Sahih Muslim no. 9)

 

[glo]

Re: Holy Spirit

yeah.....this is what I mean, Allah's hearing and seeing is with us....actually I am sensing Allah existence with me ALL the time. I don't feel that I am living all by my own. I feel his power supporting me in whatever I do whenever I go. I sense his guidance when I go through hardships as if there is a power strengthen me whenever I feel weak....its an amazing feeling!!

hope that help glo

Hi Danah (Have you changed your name recently?? )

I can relate to what you written.

I realise that I made a mistake by naming this thread 'Holy Spirit'. The word 'spirit' (even with a small 's' ), if used in connection with God, seems to act as a red rag to Muslims and leads easily to attempts to refute the trinity.

Whereas in this thread I am really asking about how Muslims perceive God to guide and influence them in their lives. (It just so happens that as a Christian I would describe that process as 'God's spirit working in me/my life')
It seems a difference in terminology, rather than anything else ...

Perhaps I will ask the mods to change the title of this thread, just to avoid confusion.



Malayloveislam, thank you for your reply too.

I don't think it is the spirit of G-d who guides me but rather Allah Himself.

For me there would be no difference between the two statements.

I am interested to hear more about how Muslim perceive God's guidance in their lives.

Can anybody give me any examples of such things occuring to them?

Thanks

 

[جوري]

Re: Holy Spirit

I seems that for some Muslims the thought of God having a 'spirit' which works in our lives is unthinkable.
Could that be to do with having it reinforced that there is no trinity, hence no spirit and no son. (Skye expresses that quite clearly)

Perhaps it is useful to draw from Woodrow's (non-Christian) terminology.
Do any of you experience God in such ways, which Woodrow describes? (See above)

Peace

God having a spirit is a big NO. working in our lives is your addendum. God working in our lives isn't and doesn't have to be on Christian terms if God indeed were the God of of all not the God of a few. God works in our lives by his own terms and definitions and that works for all of man kind, those who believe and those who don't, and it is certainly does not conform to the myopic christian understanding of a God. I haven't expressed it quite clearly, The only living word of God expressed it quite clearly.

as for my own private 'How I experience God; isn't publicly debatable-- I am only handling the 'holy spirit' portion of your topic!

all the best

 

[glo]

Re: Holy Spirit

as for my own private 'How I experience God; isn't publicly debatable-- I am only handling the 'holy spirit' portion of your topic!
all the best

Then you are doing what I have asked people exactly not to do for the purpose of this thread! Can I please ask you to keep that specific discussion to other more appropriate threads on the topic?

I would love to hear your personal experiences, but I can understand if that's not something you are willing to share publically.

All the best to you too.

Peace

 

[جوري]

Re: Holy Spirit

Then you are doing what I have asked people exactly not to do for the purpose of this thread! Can I please ask you to keep that specific discussion to other more appropriate threads on the topic?

I would love to hear your personal experiences, but I can understand if that's not something you are willing to share publically.

All the best to you too.

Peace

I'd gladly not discuss it, if you don't add little notes as such to express what you believe is the Islamic view:

seems that for some Muslims the thought of God having a 'spirit' which works in our lives is unthinkable.
Could that be to do with having it reinforced that there is no trinity, hence no spirit and no son.

for again, God working in our lives doesn't and need not denote that he is divided by three and the spirit portion carries such an act while the other two parts express different functions and are inept at carrying such an action. and to assert, that God indeed works in our lives even those who are atheists, just simply NOT by your definition!

other than that, good luck with your thread!

all the best

 

[glo]

I have asked for the title of this thread to be changed.
Perhaps that will help in preventing recurring 'trinity discussions'.

Skye, can you tell me more about Allah working in people's lives, even those who do not believe?

peace

 

[جوري]

I think this verse sums it up perfectly:

And with Him are the keys of the Invisible. None but He knoweth them. And He knoweth what is in the land and the sea. Not a leaf falleth but He knoweth it, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, naught of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a clear record.-- Al-Ana'am 59
every cell and every process that works in your body through its 'own volition' is naught except by his will!

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

Reading this thread I am getting a new sense of my Muslim's friends understanding of God. On this forum I see many people talk about religious isses and refer to them as spiritual issues. But in this thread, it seems that I am being told that not only are spirit beings creations of Allah -- I can understand that -- but that Allah is therefore himself not a spiritual being. Am I understanding correctly?

So, and this may simply be a badly formed question, but the best I can do right now, what sort of "being" is Allah? He is not a material being. He is not a spiritual being. What other sorts of beings are there? I thought that those two terms, when taken together, were pretty much all inclusive of every type of being that exists.