Why did Allah create the universe?

[جوري]

So worship is for us, not for God??

Yours,
M

I think that should be pretty clear right? also it seems worship and prayer didn't avail God, considering the three prayers he dispensed with in the garden of Gethsemane only to be done away with by the other God(who usually takes a back seat to the now Jesus figure head) the very next day?!

all the best

 

[AabiruSabeel]

Why does he want or need worship?

So worship is for us, not for God??

Yours,
M

Yes, as sis Skye has answered above.

Allah does not need our worship. It is for our own benefit. I had answered a similar question in another thread that I am copying here:

When a manufacturer creates a device or a machine, he knows better than anybody else how that machine works. He knows the pros and cons, the in and out of the machine. Therefore he provides a user manual with it, so that the end-user can operate the machine properly.
Similarly, Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala has created the human beings. He knows better than anybody else, how we should live our lives. He knows better how to operate our body.
If we think that I have bought this machine, or I have bought this car, and now its my own property. I can use it as I like. I will pour water in the fuel tank, and petrol in the carburettor, and press accelerator whenever I want, and apply the brake whenever I want, then you know what will be the outcome.
Similarly, Allah has given us this life, and Allah has created us. He knows better than anybody else, how we should live our lives. So He has given us this Deen, Islam, which is a complete way of Life. If we think, its my life and my body, and do whatever actions we like, then there will be nothing but fasad on earth. We will only be spreading mischief on earth.
We humans have very limited intellect. Even though science is now proving the benefits of following the Sunnah, we cannot fully comprehend the Wisdom behind following the rules and regulation of Deen. Since our Creator has commanded us to follow it, we must follow it for our own benefit, in this life as well as the life hereafter.

 

[mattityahu]

I don't know where you got 'reflecting Allah's nature' from?
It is reflecting on Allah's creation!

Do you sit at the end of the day, see the sun set over the water and think to yourself.. definitely a three goded affair?

We are born on the fitrah, and have an innate need to find answers.. the same way Abraham and Muhammad reflected on creation and needed answers, which they found!

all the best

I was told by AabiruSabeel that you could better understand Allah by reflecting on creation. How can I understand Him by reflecting on creation it is nothing like him? Can I only infer that there is a Creator?

What a great example. A sunset is one of the most beautiful things to be seen in creation. The way the light reflects on the water, the way the sun and the sea almost seem to be at peace with one another, in an incredible harmony. The sun and the sea, though different parts of the creation, are incredibly unified in their beauty and purpose: they both give life, yet without one or the other the world is either dark and cold, or dry and desolate. If God is anything like His Creation, perhaps He is made up of different parts/persons, yet they work together in harmony and unity.

Or perhaps that's just a load of mystical rubbish.

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

I was told by AabiruSabeel that you could better understand Allah by reflecting on creation. How can I understand Him by reflecting on creation it is nothing like him? Can I only infer that there is a Creator?

What a great example. A sunset is one of the most beautiful things to be seen in creation. The way the light reflects on the water, the way the sun and the sea almost seem to be at peace with one another, in an incredible harmony. The sun and the sea, though different parts of the creation, are incredibly unified in their beauty and purpose: they both give life, yet without one or the other the world is either dark and cold, or dry and desolate. If God is anything like His Creation, perhaps He is made up of different parts/persons, yet they work together in harmony and unity.

Or perhaps that's just a load of mystical rubbish.

Yours,
M

semantics which you simply pounce on and have no basis in the tenets of the religion.. reflecting on creation is simply to make you believe whether or not it is God made or are all a chance occurrence..

as beautiful as your prose, at the end of the day those same thoughts might lead you to Buddhism or Hinduism or Shintoism or Janists just the same.
If God were like his creation, then God too is a dependent and need not be worshiped.
What happened the day your God died? The planets were still kept on their axis while he was suffering somewhere in the middle east..

all the best

 

[AabiruSabeel]

I don't know where you read "God is anything like His Creation". Allah Himself says in the Quran, There is none like unto Him [112:4]

We can not compare Allah with the creations at all. But we can understand Him by reflecting on the creation.

Let me give one example in simple words. We know that the smallest creation that can be felt or understood using any of the sophisticated equipment is a nucleus or an electron or a quark. We can not go further down at this stage, yet Allah has created such minute details in perfect order. And now if we go upwards, we see the bigger creations, the earth, sun, Solar System, Galaxies, or upto 15 billion light years or so.
And all this universe, in all its expanse is enclosed in the envelope of the first sky. Then there is a second sky above it, then a third, a fourth .. upto seven skies. Then above the seventh sky is the Throne of our Lord. So can we imagine how big is the Throne of Allah? We can not comprehend it. And Allah is the Creator of all these things. And He is greater than all His creations. Does this not show the greatness of Allah?

Similarly, at one place Allah says, there are signs of Allah in your own creation.
Just see how Allah has created man. When Man wants to create something, he requires good raw material for it. But Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala has created man, in the perfect shape, and best form, from a filthy drop of liquid.
When man wants do some work, he needs a big open space for proper working. But Allah subHanahu wa Ta'ala has created man in a very tight place (mother's womb).
And how perfectly Allah has created man? Can we imagine any alternative place for our nose? How would it look like if our eyes were placed on the sides, similar to the birds?
How perfectly Allah has created the position of our thumb? Can you imagine working/holding something without the thumb? It would be really difficult. The list goes on, you can ponder on any of our limbs, you can never find a better alternative for it.
Now when man wants to create something, he requires light to see everything is fitting at the right place. And Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala has fixed everything in our body on its perfect place, and He has done that inside 3 layers of darkness.
You know, the more complex a machine is, the more precision it requires. Man is the most complex machine, yet created inside darkness.

Does this all not show the greatness of Allah?

These are just simple examples I have given here. You can ponder on anything and understand the Power of Allah, the Greatness of Allah, all the Beautiful attributes of Allah.

 

[Yanal]

Allah has created this world to test us if we are truly loyal to him or the Shytaan...

 

[mattityahu]

semantics which you simply pounce on and have no basis in the tenets of the religion.. reflecting on creation is simply to make you believe whether or not it is God made or are all a chance occurrence..

as beautiful as your prose, at the end of the day those same thoughts might lead you to Buddhism or Hinduism or Shintoism or Janists just the same.
If God were like his creation, then God too is a dependent and need not be worshiped.
What happened the day your God died? The planets were still kept on their axis while he was suffering somewhere in the middle east..

all the best

I would disagree with this minimalist take on reflecting creation, but let's keep rolling with it in this thread. The questions then become: If Creation is, in fact, nothing like Allah, then why did He create it? If Oneness is perfect, then why doesn't His Creation have this Oneness? To go further, why did He create anything other than Himself if Otherness is not perfect?

I don't see this as "semantics", but a pretty basic question about reality.

As for whether my thoughts might lead to me to Buddhism or whatever, do these systems of belief make sense of this idea of "Unity yet Diversity"? From what I've learnt about these religions (not much) they don't seem to understand things this way.

And the God dying thing is off-topic (and you didn't want me to tell you the gospel anyway).

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

I would disagree with this minimalist take on reflecting creation, but let's keep rolling with it in this thread.

Indeed, one can't propose a book from a simple sitting by the ocean!

The questions then become: If Creation is, in fact, nothing like Allah, then why did He create it? If Oneness is perfect, then why doesn't His Creation have this Oneness? To go further, why did He create anything other than Himself if Otherness is not perfect?

The Question of why he has created has been in fact answered ad nauseam. all you'd have to do is scroll back a few pages.
I have no idea about why does his creation have this oneness seems like a non-question considering there is no oneness in his being in accordance with Christianity..
as for your last Q, which I still consider another non-q
is best answered by Suret Al-Anbya

[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:1] Their reckoning draweth nigh for mankind, while they turn away in heedlessness.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:2] Never cometh there unto them a new reminder from their Lord but they listen to it while they play,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:3] With hearts preoccupied. And they confer in secret. The wrong-doers say: Is this other than a mortal like you? Will ye then succumb to magic when ye see (it)?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:4] He saith: My Lord knoweth what is spoken in the heaven and the earth. He is the Hearer, the Knower.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:5] Nay, say they, (these are but) muddled dreams; nay, he hath but invented it; nay, he is but a poet. Let him bring us a portent even as those of old (who were Allah's messengers) were sent (with portents).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:6] Not a township believed of those which We destroyed before them (though We sent them portents): would they then believe?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:7] And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men, whom We inspired. Ask the followers of the Reminder if ye know not?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:8] We gave them not bodies that would not eat food, nor were they immortals.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:9] Then we fulfilled the promise unto them. So we delivered them and whom We would, and We destroyed the prodigals.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:10] Now We have revealed unto you a Scripture wherein is your Reminder. Have ye then no sense?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:11] How many a community that dealt unjustly have We shattered, and raised up after them another folk![/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:12] And, when they felt Our might, behold them fleeing from it![/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:13] (But it was said unto them): Flee not, but return to that (existence) which emasculated you and to your dwellings, that ye may be questioned.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:14] They cried: Alas for us! we were wrong-doers.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:15] And this their crying ceased not till We made them as reaped corn, extinct.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:16] We created not the heaven and the earth and all that is between them in play.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:17] If We had wished to find a pastime, We could have found it in Our presence - if We ever did.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:18] Nay, but We hurl the true against the false, and it doth break its head and lo! it vanisheth. And yours will be woe for that which ye ascribe (unto Him).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:19] Unto Him belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth. And those who dwell in His presence are not too proud to worship Him, nor do they weary;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:20] They glorify (Him) night and day; they flag not.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:21] Or have they chosen gods from the earth who raise the dead?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:22] If there were therein gods beside Allah, then verily both (the heavens and the earth) had been disordered. Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Throne, from all that they ascribe (unto Him).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:23] He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned.[/SIZE]

I don't see this as "semantics", but a pretty basic question about reality.

Yes, and you got answers to it, of which you picked the one you chose to put a spin on even though it has no basis in the basic tenets of Islam!

As for whether my thoughts might lead to me to Buddhism or whatever, do these systems of belief make sense of this idea of "Unity yet Diversity"? From what I've learnt about these religions (not much) they don't seem to understand things this way.

Actually your beliefs are surprisingly in concert with Hinduism- as per dictionary:
by a belief in a supreme being of many forms and natures, by the view that opposing theories are aspects of one eternal truth, and by a desire for liberation from earthly evils.
so indeed a person might look and become none the wiser!

And the God dying thing is off-topic (and you didn't want me to tell you the gospel anyway).

Actually it is very much within topic, considering the creation of the universe by a god is at odds with the death of God!
at the stage of his death, he is no longer needed!

Yours,
M

all the best!

 

[Karina]

This may be a helpful additional dialogue...

 

[جوري]

perhaps those two threads can be merged indeed, they show similarity, and I have been whittling myself away answering here and there, and neglecting really far more important things and on my weekend (which should be taken for relaxation) ..

Maybe someone can bring it to a mods attention..

all the best

peace

 

[mattityahu]

I am not claiming there is a Oneness to creation, quite the opposite. I thought that was quite clear from my post.

Would you mind explaining the passage for me as I can't seem to make any sense out of it...forgive my stupidity.

Hindu belief systems are rarely "Trinitarian", though the comparison is interesting. That's one of the areas I'm thinking of looking into soon.

As for "death of God", I guess it would be inconsistent if God stopped existing. But Allah didn't stop existing, so it is kind of off-topic.

Yours,
M

 

[mattityahu]

Not sure about the merging, purpose of life and purpose of the created world are significantly different. But, up to the Mods.

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

I am not claiming there is a Oneness to creation, quite the opposite. I thought that was quite clear from my post.

So you freely admit that Christianity isn't about monotheism?

Would you mind explaining the passage for me as I can't seem to make any sense out of it...forgive my stupidity.

Perhaps you can clarify your wants with your non-question? God didn't create the universe in Jest should be the take home message. Also evidenced from suret Al-Insan.. the happy evangelizer often states the Quran copies from the bible, thus it should be an easy answer and an easy find!

Hindu belief systems are rarely "Trinitarian", though the comparison is interesting. That's one of the areas I'm thinking of looking into soon.

They believe in multigods, gods within us, oneness with the creator etc.. I think it is a bit better than Christianity if we are to go by common sense alone.. I think it is easier to accept life as Energy, than a God who nunciates himself, to be born to a woman, to die to rise again and have them all be the same being err person or spirit , whatever you think of him!

As for "death of God", I guess it would be inconsistent if God stopped existing. But Allah didn't stop existing, so it is kind of off-topic.

It is very much within topic.. and who is to say he didn't stop existing? for a few days, Jesus aka god was prononuced dead and missing, for three days the universe went about.. either god and jesus aren't one in the same or, there is no god all together for his death seems not to matter and neither does his purpose for creation.

Yours,
M

all the best

 

[Karina]

Not sure about the merging, purpose of life and purpose of the created world are significantly different. But, up to the Mods.

Yours,
M

Just to clarify - even though I made reference to "the puprose of life" in the other thread, actually, as my posts state, I was steering the conversation more in the direction of, "God's motivations" in His creation of life.....

Hope this helps :statisfie

 

[mattityahu]

Just to clarify - even though I made reference to "the puprose of life" in the other thread, actually, as my posts state, I was steering the conversation more in the direction of, "God's motivations" in His creation of life.....

Hope this helps :statisfie

Well if they can be merged and still be readable, I don't object. :rollseyes

Yours,
M

 

[mattityahu]

By the way, why is this in Comparative Religion? Should be in Clarifications. Perhaps that would help us stay on-topic.

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

shouldn't you 'clarify' then how if Allah is a creator can he also succumb to the same fate as men and (die)

all the best

 

[mattityahu]

shouldn't you 'clarify' then how if Allah is a creator can he also succumb to the same fate as men and (die)

all the best

I never made any such claim. In fact, I believe it was you who brought up the subject.

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

I never made any such claim. In fact, I believe it was you who brought up the subject.

Yours,
M

so what I am to understand from this is, Jesus wasn't crucified, he didn't die?

all the best

 

[mattityahu]

Again, you're off topic. If you want to pursue the issue, feel free to PM me or set up a discussion somewhere else. I'm very happy to try and answer your questions (so long as you don't put words in my mouth like "God died").

Yours,
M