One Question for Hindus...

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Today, my friend and I visited our another friend and were waiting outside for him just then a Hindu man who was stoned asked us to dance with them in the Ganesh rally. I tried to refuse him by saying that we have some work here while my heart was pounding (what if he his us and calls his friends to beat us to death for refusing his proposal to dance with them?). To which he replied, "He (the ganesh) is everyone's god, come on".:raging: We had to give a strong reply and we said,"Our God is, Allah Rabb-ul -Aalameen."

 

[Insecured soul]

Of course there's no image of him. Seriously, get your lazy ass to read the posts on idol worship I've made before on this thread. You are getting on my nerves now.

Ofcourse there is no image and yet u fall prostrate in front of an idol? you all guys dont like when we call you idol worshipper, aint that an idol? and arent u worshipping it?

people from other countries who has never seen ganpati idol when they see it they say what is it? a man with an elephant trunk and thats what its looks like, am i right?

you call any one of us worshipper of allah and we would be happy to hear it

I want muslims to respect hinduism as much as I want hindus to respect Islam. I want everyone to respect each other's religion and recognize that there's good and bad in everything.

There is only good in true religion and thats what we believe and say.

I dont want anyone to label his own religion as 'only true religion'

Even you if you dont want but muslim will keep saying that till the world ends

 

[Ramadhan]

, "He (the ganesh) is everyone's god, come on".

Everyone's god is a man-elephant mutant??

come on!

 

[bhakti]

Ofcourse there is no image and yet u fall prostrate in front of an idol? you all guys dont like when we call you idol worshipper, aint that an idol? and arent u worshipping it? people from other countries who has never seen ganpati idol when they see it they say what is it? a man with an elephant trunk and thats what its looks like, am i right? you call any one of us worshipper of allah and we would be happy to hear it

Everyone's god is a man-elephant mutant??

wait what?!! lol guys....did you people even bother reading the loads of text I've typed on this thread on idol worship? I just cant believe this man. It's starting to get funny now. You ask me questions on idol worship (the OP) and I answer it. I then raise specific questions about your faith that no one can gimme convincing answers for. Instead you completely ignore the answers that I gave earlier and keep harping on about the same old stuff repeatedly. wow! just wow!

I guess I was completely wrong in coming here and trying to foster mutual respect and understanding. You guys have gone blind and deaf and just cant think beyond your limited squares of thought. I am prolly wrong in having participated in this forum.

I suppose they got it right when they say "Never Argue With A Fool – They Will Drag You Down To Their Level, Then Beat You With Experience!"

 

['Aleena]

I suppose it is our different upbringings? Yet, you are going to paradise and me to hell. And all your nice Hindu friends that are respectful to you and your religion too too are going straight to hell for an eternity of burning. Doesnt that strike you as funny?

Nope. Actually it scares me. May Allah give them Hidayat.
Even though i am a muslim i will be punished for my sins and whatever good a disbeliver does he will be rewarded in this life and not in the hereafter.

There are many members on this forum who didnt have an islamic upbringing. If you have been invited to truth and u reject it then its ur choice and u will bear the burden.
However,

What about those people to whom the message of Islam never reached?
(Such as Muhammad(P.B.U.H)'s parents?)

(17:15) Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.

There is however, a difference of opinion on whether or not those people that have never received the message of Islam would enter hell. Allah knows best their fate.

Another thing, a person that disbelieves in his short finite time on Earth would continue in disbelief had he been given the chance to live a much longer time or were he to be given another chance in life. Hence the argument that they're getting an infinite punishment for a finite crime does not apply here.

They would choose wrong every time, thus punishment is justified.

Disbelievers will go to hell because the signs of Allah and the signs of the Prophethood of Muhammad are so clear that they have no right to reject it.

err... do u understand sanskrit ? have u learned sanskrit ?

 

[Grace Seeker]

I want muslims to respect hinduism as much as I want hindus to respect Islam. I want everyone to respect each other's religion and recognize that there's good and bad in everything. The world is full of duality (opposing qualities) is one of the principle teachings of the Bhagavad Gita. I dont want anyone to label his own religion as 'only true religion' or 'the only way' or 'everyone else but me is going to hell'. Don't you see how much antagonism such an attitude can cause? Your supremacist attitude, however, is never gonna bring about communal harmony. Shedding that is the only way for the world to move forward and people to be happy in a pluralistic world.

Learning to respect people is good. And when pluralism means learning to respect the different faiths of different people is also good. However for pluralism to become the equal of every other religion does not follow.

Your statement: "I dont want anyone to label his own religion as 'only true religion' " caused me to remember a conversation I had with a young man from India, a hindu by faith. He was trying to convince me that there were no such things as absolutes, that everything was relative. He went so far as to suggest that my belief in absolutes was not only wrong, but wrong absolutely.

 

[Ramadhan]

wait what?!! lol guys....did you people even bother reading the loads of text I've typed on this thread on idol worship? I just cant believe this man. It's starting to get funny now. You ask me questions on idol worship (the OP) and I answer it. I then raise specific questions about your faith that no one can gimme convincing answers for. Instead you completely ignore the answers that I gave earlier and keep harping on about the same old stuff repeatedly. wow! just wow!

I apologize if I missed or did not understand your explanation.
Please enlighten me again.

So, according to you, all those hindus who worship and pray to ganesh, wishnu, shiva, brahma etc and who put offerings to the statues of those gods (devas?) do not follow the correct teaching of hinduism?
Is this what you are saying?

 

[abdussattar]

What is the source of this article? I might be interested in reading more by this author.

It is written by Maulana maududi.

Here's more literature by him.
http://www.teachislam.com/content/view/118/119/

 

[bhakti]

I apologize if I missed or did not understand your explanation. Please enlighten me again. So, according to you, all those hindus who worship and pray to ganesh, wishnu, shiva, brahma etc and who put offerings to the statues of those gods (devas?) do not follow the correct teaching of hinduism? Is this what you are saying?

please see http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134300558-one-question-hindus-2.html#post1369408

and

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134299248-hinduism-vs-islam-5.html#post1356303

Learning to respect people is good. And when pluralism means learning to respect the different faiths of different people is also good. However for pluralism to become the equal of every other religion does not follow. Your statement: "I dont want anyone to label his own religion as 'only true religion' " caused me to remember a conversation I had with a young man from India, a hindu by faith. He was trying to convince me that there were no such things as absolutes, that everything was relative. He went so far as to suggest that my belief in absolutes was not only wrong, but wrong absolutely.

I don't see how you can respect another religion while at the same time considering it false? However, I do understand it is tough for a person of Abrahamic faith to see truth in all religions owing to certain dogmatic principles. Therefore I wouldn't expect what I said off you and take back my words. It is just impractical.

oh...and our perception of the world is definitely relative. Heard of Schrodinger's cat? Whatever is absolute is what is God.

And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.

I thought the belief is that messengers (100,000 or so?) have been sent all over the world? Anyway, so if a person doesn't know of a messenger how is he judged? And don't you think such a person has it rather easy? Coz a person from a place where a messenger is sent has the enormous additional emotional burden of having to choose between his old beliefs and the new path. And we all know how tough breaking an emotional bond is. If someone suddenly told you your parents are completely different people than whom you have been considering as your parents since birth, it would be very very tough to accept the new 'truth' and severe emotional ties with the former parents, loose all old habits and adapt to a radically different lifestyle.

The other guy that knows nothing of the messenger though has it real easy coz he continues with his lifestyle and has no emotional upheaval to make. So why the added burden on some selected people? On what basis is this decided?

Disbelievers will go to hell because the signs of Allah and the signs of the Prophethood of Muhammad are so clear that they have no right to reject it.

I don't want to get into a long-winding discussion on 'scientific truths' n such (I'm already a lil tired of the discussion actually ) but I'll just say that if the 'truth' were so obvious then it should be like a bright light shining into your eyes that anyone and everyone be he an absolute moron or an Einstein shouldn't be able to reject it. Obviously this is not the case. We have millions of apostates of Islam all over the Globe and these guys clearly didn't see the light shining into their eyes. Even during the time of the prophet himself there were very many people that rejected him which is what caused all the wars etc.

 

[Ramadhan]

please see http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/comparat...ml#post1369408 (One Question for Hindus...)

and

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/comparat...ml#post1356303 (Hinduism VS Islam)

Ah ok, thank you for the confirmation.

so hindus do worship idols and indeed pray to those statues.

thank you.

 

[abdussattar]

so if a person doesn't know of a messenger how is he judged?

Messenger = Someone with a message. The Ummah Muhammadia carries the Message of the Messengers. So we're all messengers of the Messenger of Allah :saws1: here, talking to you.

 

[bhakti]

Ah ok, thank you for the confirmation.

so hindus do worship idols and indeed pray to those statues.

thank you.

my dear dear dear dear brother naidamar...can I ask you a simple question lik a real good friend asking another? I want an honest answer.

When you pray, how do you know you are praying to Allah only?

 

[Ramadhan]

my dear dear dear dear brother naidamar...can I ask you a simple question lik a real good friend asking another? I want an honest answer.

When you pray, how do you know you are praying to Allah only?

I know that I am praying to Allah SWT only because I have NO mental image of Allah at all (although in my heart and intention I am performing it in front of Allah) and no mental image of ANYTHING in front of me.

no half naked blue man with many hands, no elephant-man mutant, no mean-looking lady wearing antique jewelleries sitting on a cow, no half naked blond guy nailed on a cross, no old guy with beard, no woman with veil carrying a baby, no fat guy sitting and laughing, no serene-looking guy sitting cross legged etc etc...

 

[bhakti]

I know that I am praying to Allah SWT only because I have NO mental image of Allah at all (although in my heart and intention I am performing it in front of Allah) and no mental image of ANYTHING in front of me.

Exactly! So the only thing that matters is your "heart and intention" right? Therefore, as long as in your "heart and intention" you have it set that you are praying to Allah, then Allah will receive your prayers right coz Allah certainly understands his devotee's heart and intention very well. So, if you are worshipping an idol and in your heart and intention you are worshiping Allah, then surely Allah will receive his devotee's prayers? coz Allah understands his devotee's deepest emotions very well.....

 

[Ramadhan]

Exactly! So the only thing that matters is your "heart and intention" right?

no, that's not correct. heart and intention is a must, followed by action, that's why in my sentence I said I have NOTHING in front of me.
For example, if first I intend to worship Allah but then I need to place a fat guy with elephant head statue in front of me, that means my mental image of Allah is that elephant-man mutant guy, and hence I worship that elephant-man or at least I feel I need the assistance of that mutant to connect with Allah, and so automatically that destroys automatically my first intention.

Therefore, as long as in your "heart and intention" you have it set that you are praying to Allah, then Allah will receive your prayers right coz Allah certainly understands his devotee's heart and intention very well. So, if you are worshipping an idol and in your heart and intention you are worshiping Allah, then surely Allah will receive his devotee's prayers? coz Allah understands his devotee's deepest emotions very well.....

Again, you are committing principles of contradiction error.
You are either worshipping Allah or not worshipping Allah.
It is not possible to worship idols and Allah at the same time.
Once you worship idols, you associate Allah, and hence denying Allah of His attribute.

 

[bhakti]

no, that's not correct. heart and intention is a must, followed by action, that's why in my sentence I said I have NOTHING in front of me. For example, if first I intend to worship Allah but then I need to place a fat guy with elephant head statue in front of me, that means my mental image of Allah is that elephant-man mutant guy, and hence I worship that elephant-man or at least I feel I need the assistance of that mutant to connect with Allah, and so automatically that destroys automatically my first intention.

How does it destroy your intention if your 'heart and intention' is that the idol is God? So by worshiping the idol, your intention is still that you are worshipping God.

Again, you are committing principles of contradiction error.
You are either worshipping Allah or not worshipping Allah.
It is not possible to worship idols and Allah at the same time.
Once you worship idols, you associate Allah, and hence denying Allah of His attribute.

But you are not worshiping the idol at all! Since 'heart and intention' is what matters! So by heart and intent you are worshiping God. Don't you get it?

 

[Ramadhan]

How does it destroy your intention if your 'heart and intention' is that the idol is God? So by worshiping the idol, your intention is still that you are worshipping God.

But you are not worshiping the idol at all! Since 'heart and intention' is what matters! So by heart and intent you are worshiping God. Don't you get it?

I think our differences in understanding is because muslims and hindus have different understanding of god.

for muslims, we get to know god from the Qur'an in which Allah Himself tells us about His attributes (99 attributes of God) and in QS. Al Ikhlas (QS. 112):
Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.

Pay attention to the last verse. Therefore, there is nothing in this universe that can represent Him, and hence if we create an image to represent him, it will be associating him with a creation.

For hindus, you guys create all sorts of personalities to represent god, and in Islam, that is associating god with creation.

You know, you don't need to claim that hindus believe in one absolute god when the facts point to the opposite

 

[Grace Seeker]

From one who stands outside of both Islam and Hinduism this is what I see:

Exactly! So the only thing that matters is your "heart and intention" right? Therefore, as long as in your "heart and intention" you have it set that you are praying to Allah, then Allah will receive your prayers right coz Allah certainly understands his devotee's heart and intention very well.

So good, so far.

So, if you are worshipping an idol and in your heart and intention you are worshiping Allah, then surely Allah will receive his devotee's prayers? coz Allah understands his devotee's deepest emotions very well.....

How does it destroy your intention if your 'heart and intention' is that the idol is God? So by worshiping the idol, your intention is still that you are worshipping God.

No. That would be like me telling my wife that my heart and my intention were focused on her all the while I was making love to a prostitute. If you are worshipping an idol, and you know it is an idol, then you are worshipping an idol. It doesn't somehow change the object of your worship into a mental substitute or a surrogate for God because in your mind you claim it is actually God you are worshipping. You identified the real truth for us when you said it is an idol; in your mind you know it is not the real God and yet you still worship it substituting something created by human hands for the one who is the creator of all.

 

[bhakti]

No. That would be like me telling my wife that my heart and my intention were focused on her all the while I was making love to a prostitute. If you are worshipping an idol, and you know it is an idol, then you are worshipping an idol. It doesn't somehow change the object of your worship into a mental substitute or a surrogate for God because in your mind you claim it is actually God you are worshipping. You identified the real truth for us when you said it is an idol; in your mind you know it is not the real God and yet you still worship it substituting something created by human hands for the one who is the creator of all.

lovemaking is a physical activity while prayer/worship is a mental activity which is why intent becomes so important.

let us say I'm separated from my wife for some time and long to be with her. So I take a pic of her with me and shower all my love on it. If somehow, my wife had the ability to understand my devotion, wouldn't she accept that love? Now, lets go further and say I forget to wear my spectacles and therefore take a pic of some other woman with me and start showering my love on that pic while actually thinking that pic is of my wife. Would that still change the fact that my love is for my wife and not for the woman in the pic? Would that still stop my wife from feeling the love I have for her even though the pic is definitely not her?

The devotee is not identifying the idol as an idol. To the devotee's mind the idol is god. This is the subjective truth. And therefore, as far as intent goes, he is praying to god.

And btw if I'm worshiping a false god by worshiping an idol and you are worshiping the true god, then what is this true god that you are worshiping? Don't gimme the name of the God coz it is absurd to think that God is limited by name.

I would also like to understand what the purpose of worship is?

 

[Insecured soul]

This thread is still ON, may be for the good, i told myself to be a spectator as i cant find no words which can convince bhakti............. (insha allah)