Gay Couples are to be Allowed to Marry in Churches.

[glo]

However two questions remain..
is Jesus the same god of the OT? or did he have a personality change?
and how much of the bible can you actually attribute as to having been said by Jesus?

all the best

I assumed that Pygo was referring to the direct teachings of Jesus, as he walked the earth and preached to the people.
I am happy to let Pygo confirm whether that was indeed what he was asking.

 

[Abdul-Raouf]

Its like a lawyer... who doesnt comply with the law..is in court..for his duties...and the court happily allows and accepts him..to be part of the court proceedings.

Which means..

the law (Christianity)..and the Court (Church)...contradict each other.

 

[glo]

^
But the British law and government is secular ...

 

[Ramadhan]

I assumed that Pygo was referring to the direct teachings of Jesus, as he walked the earth and preached to the people.

Jesus also never expressly forbid bestiality and necrophilia.

So when's your church going to marry a man with his goat, or a woman with a deceased priest?

 

[Ramadhan]

More Bible study for Glo:
http://www.helium.com/items/1617185-did-jesus-mention-homosexuality


Jesus never directly addressed the issues of homosexuality but he also never directly addressed issues such as pedophilia, bestiality or incest. He did, however, make it perfectly clear that a sexual union was fully intended to be between a man and a woman.


"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matt.19:4)




In the Old Testament, Sodom and Gomorrah were wicked cities whose inhabitants were homosexuals. Lot, Abraham's nephew, lived in Sodom and God sent angels into the city to bring him out.
"... all the men from every part of the city of Sodom, both young and old, surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.' Lot went outside... 'Don't do this wicked thing... 'Get out of our way,' they replied... They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door. But the men inside (angels) reached out and pulled Lot back into the house... Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness." (Gen. 19:4-10)


When it came to blasphemous sins, Jesus often referred to Sodom and Gomorrah as a rule of measure. "It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city." (Mark 6:11) "But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee." (Matt. 11:24)


Judging by the Lord's own words it doesn't take a PhD to see that he does not approve of homosexuality. The God of the Old and New Testament is one and the same and homosexuality is condemned in both.


The church at Corinth was having a problem with homosexuality and Paul told them in no uncertain terms, "Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves... none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God." (1Cor.6:9)

 

[Ramadhan]

I assumed that Pygo was referring to the direct teachings of Jesus, as he walked the earth and preached to the people.

But you believe that Jesus of the NT is the same as God of the OT, right?

 

[Ramadhan]

in Leviticus 18 verse 22, Jesus say: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

 

[Trumble]

Isnt it interesting that the state tried to force the church to allow gay marriage in church on the basis of human rights, while at the same time oppressing the rights of the religious folks who uphold the tenets of their religion which does not even allow the practice of homosexual acts.

Sorry, which state is supposed to have tried to 'force' the church (which church?) to do anything? This proposed legislation (which incidently I disagree with on the grounds that 'marriage' is the union between a man and a woman by definition, and hence there is no such thing as a literal 'gay marriage') is to remove obstacles in English law that prevent a 'gay marriage' taking place in church. No church is being forced to allow them, indeed the Church of England has already said it will not.

Which state is supposed to be oppressing the rights of those 'religious folks'? What 'rights' are being oppressed and in what way are they being prevented from upholding the tenets of their religion?

 

[Ramadhan]

Sorry, which state is supposed to have tried to 'force' the church (which church?) to do anything? This proposed legislation (which incidently I disagree with on the grounds that 'marriage' is the union between a man and a woman by definition, and hence there is no such thing as a literal 'gay marriage') is to remove obstacles in English law that prevent a 'gay marriage' taking place in church. No church is being forced to allow them, indeed the Church of England has already said it will not. Which state is supposed to be oppressing the rights of those 'religious folks'? What 'rights' are being oppressed and in what way are they being prevented from upholding the tenets of their religion?

You're right.

I guess the church themselves are actually willing and allow that the gay marriage are officiated in the church.

I'm just so surprised that the church in england is meek and weak and willing to go bend over to appease few homos (pun truly intended), sacrificing one of the most important God's commandments.

 

[truthseeker63]

Homosexuality seems to be accepted in the West it was not always this way.

 

[جوري]

Nothing like a selective quote, is there? ^o)

How about



Although I think the thread is best summed up by

How is it selective when the analysis hasn't been repeated and is speculative that HIV is a major cause influencing homosexual mortality when it is clearly not even high on the list! As I have stated in my previous post.. every other day we read of a homosexual death related to drug or a suicide or multitudes of other ways that are mostly functional rather than organic affecting their life expectancy.
The ending quote you posted is one of political correctitutde rather than an epidemiological statistic and is irrelevant-- many people use such statistics to echo their own agenda whatever it maybe .. we're only interested in the facts not a christian bible thumping or bullying or mob mentality!

put two and two together then the cause you advocate won't be so lost on everyone!

all the best

 

[جوري]

I assumed that Pygo was referring to the direct teachings of Jesus, as he walked the earth and preached to the people. I am happy to let Pygo confirm whether that was indeed what he was asking.

I asked you two simple questions, it seems you're unable to answer them or reconcile them with what is written in the bible?.. stalking me on PM will not make the difficult questions go away!

all the best

 

[Pygoscelis]

Isnt it interesting that the state tried to force the church to allow gay marriage in church

Do you mean they tried to force a church to allow it in their church? They told the pastor he must marry a gay couple? If so, where and when did this happen? I would oppose this as strongly as I oppose the bigots who would deny homosexuals the right to marry where a church is pleased to marry them.

The rich irony of this is that here we have muslims speaking against rights for homosexuals and seeking to repress and demonize them, when muslims themselves are often oppressed and demonized.

The one thing these muslims have in common with Ann Coulter and her ilk is that they both speak bigotry against homosexuals and homosexuality. Homophobia seems to run through all Abrahamic religion. I often tell far right islamophobes that they have more in common with the muslims they hate than the "libruls" do. They don't like to face that truth any more than the muslims do.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Jesus also never expressly forbid bestiality and necrophilia.

So when's your church going to marry a man with his goat, or a woman with a deceased priest?

Jesus also never forbid slavery, and the bible speaks favourably of it (unless it is of hebrews). Does the Quran forbid beastiality and necrophilia? Incest too?

 

[جوري]

The one thing these muslims have in common with Ann Coulter and her ilk is that they both speak bigotry against homosexuals and homosexuality. Homophobia seems to run through all Abrahamic religion. I often tell far right islamophobes that they have more in common with the muslims they hate than the "libruls" do. They don't like to face that truth any more than the muslims do.

I am not sure why you seem perpetually confused, you and a few other homoerotics seem to construe not approving of a sinful lifestyle to be akin to either a phobia or a hate.. why such extremes in emotions? does not approving of incest make you an incestophobe? or frowning upon pederasts make you a pederastophobe? what else do you fear pray do tell ... how does not accepting this life style as a norm = to demonization or oppression? more importantly how does a sexual life style choice relate at all to religion? This is precisely what we mean by atheists having a lack of definition or baseline all topics seem to blend under one massive brush, that it makes it both tedious and absurd to dignify the meaningless statements with a response all together!

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

You're right.

I guess the church themselves are actually willing and allow that the gay marriage are officiated in the church.

I'm just so surprised that the church in england is meek and weak and willing to go bend over to appease few homos (pun truly intended), sacrificing one of the most important God's commandments.

The Main Christain denominations (eg. Anglicans) having been going downhill for some time, (particularly since the 1960). There has been a battle between the traditionalists and the secular/liberal wings of the church, who would rather subordinate themseves to the various fashions and vagaries of society rather than the teachings of Jesus (pbuh).

the latter have won control of key Church institutions and you can see the results.

Serves as a nice warning what will happen if secular/liberal types gain control of our faith.

 

[GuestFellow]

Salaam

Serves as a nice warning what will happen if secular/liberal types gain control of our faith.

:wa:

There have been attempts, like the Quillam Foundation. Thankfully, they are not working.

 

[Aprender]

:wa:

There have been attempts, like the Quillam Foundation. Thankfully, they are not working.

Right. Which is one of the reasons why I think Islam is amazing and I respect it. Of all of the three monotheistic faiths, to me, Islam is the only one in which followers actually follow what is commanded. Of course, you have a few outliers in Christianity in Judaism in America but for the most part the word of God is ignored or so distorted. I think people like the idea of being religious but don't actually follow through which is why some people might be jealous of the Muslims' close relationship with Allah (swt). For following the word of God, Muslims are said to be "stuck in the past."

This is merely from my observations within my community. Might be different elsewhere and I am open to learning what others have to tell me about how it is where you live. If you haven't seen it, you should check out the documentary Jesus Camp to see some of what I mean...

 

[lostsoul99]

I personally don't understand why gay couples would seek a church wedding as opposed to a civil one? This is clearly not a union recognized by God, so what is the point of this?

yea I totally agree with you. people can't be gay and still be christians or muslims or jews at the same time.. it makes no sense to me either. it's like they wanna defy god but still act like they believe in him. that's why gay marriage was outlawed in the first place, because marriage is a religious thing. the whole church wedding is at least. it makes no sense that they wanna perform a ceremony that is created by and for God in christianity to unite two people when God never intended that ceremony to be used by homosexuals. it sickens me. there still are many people against it though, even though the media tries to act like the majority of people are for it.. what a repulsive way of life.

 

[lostsoul99]

I am not sure why you seem perpetually confused, you and a few other homoerotics seem to construe not approving of a sinful lifestyle to be akin to either a phobia or a hate.. why such extremes in emotions? does not approving of incest make you an incestophobe? or frowning upon pederasts make you a pederastophobe? what else do you fear pray do tell ... how does not accepting this life style as a norm = to demonization or oppression? more importantly how does a sexual life style choice relate at all to religion? This is precisely what we mean by atheists having a lack of definition or baseline all topics seem to blend under one massive brush, that it makes it both tedious and absurd to dignify the meaningless statements with a response all together!

you tell 'em sister lol. homosexuality is just like pedophilia.. sexual deviancy of a sickening kind. the pedophiles have a civil rights movement too.. are these homo-lovers gonna grant pedophiles their rights too and let them molest their kids? i doubt it. they lock up pedophiles but act like homosexuals are normal.. sickening.