Is the bible the word of God

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a book should testify whether it is or isn't the work of its author. this is true of every book. for example, you've kknown someone very well and then someone shows you a book and says he/she has written it. after reading it, you might say, "this isn't something he would write!" likewise, if you always read someone's books, it may be possible for you to tell whether something is his/her work or not. so if someone shows you something written by someone else, you most likely will say, "that doesn't seem like his/her work."

so while it may not be possible for you to be able to tell whether a certain writer has written a certain book or not unless you know him /her well or have written many of his/her books to be able to tell what his/her writing is like, as for God, it is always true that you can tell whether a certain book is His work or not. when you analyze the bible, you can tell that while it has some parts that are truely from God, not all parts are. there are many contradictions in the bible and there are many blasphemies that cannot be possibly God's word. so the Bible itself testifies that it is no longer the unchanged work of God. it has been tampered with by man.
 
WRITER said:
a book should testify whether it is or isn't the work of its author. this is true of every book
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But it isn't true of every book.

There are many books that are anonymous, the author completely unknown.
There are many books that are published under pseudonymns to intentionally hide the identity of the author.
There are many books that are assumed to be by one particular author and later learned not to have been that author's work.


With regard to the Bible, the Bible does not purport to be a dictated work of God. It is also not a single book. It is a collection of books. It has many human writers -- some known, some assumed, some completely unknown -- who, though inspired, also lent their own personality and character to that which was written. Thus, many of your arguments against it are against not the Bible but some fictional book you've invented in your own mind that it never actually claims to be.
 
abz2000 said:
I too read it and have a deep respect for it due to the words of the prophets and the prophecies it contains,
I also agree that it has different levels,
The truth in it is at the highest level,
And the changes made by men for - God knows who - because even children would see through the flaws.
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It was the Emperor Constantines and his Council of Nicea:

 
begotten not made? what does begotten mean?
astaghfirullah - there is no queen of heaven.
.........or does begotten actually not mean begotten?

how do you reconcile it?
Doublethink, a word coined by George Orwell in the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four,
describes the act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct, often in distinct social contexts.
It is related to, but distinct from, hypocrisy and neutrality.
Its opposite is cognitive dissonance, where the two beliefs cause conflict in one's mind.
Doublethink is an integral concept of George Orwell'sdystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four.
The word doublethink is part of Newspeak.
 
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Scimitar said:
It was the Emperor Constantines and his Council of Nicea:
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emperor constantine and council of nicea only shopped around and picked which books they thought conformed to their paganised faith and canonised as bible. Since the death of Musa (as), various scribes, rabbis and priests had wrote, changed, added, edit, removed all kinds of books that they claimed from God.
 
Grace Seeker said:
With regard to the Bible, the Bible does not purport to be a dictated work of God. It is also not a single book. It is a collection of books. It has many human writers -- some known, some assumed, some completely unknown -- who, though inspired, also lent their own personality and character to that which was written. Thus, many of your arguments against it are against not the Bible but some fictional book you've invented in your own mind that it never actually claims to be.
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Is this an example of cognitive dissonance?
 
abz2000 said:
begotten not made? what does begotten mean?
astaghfirullah - there is no queen of heaven.
.........or does begotten actually not mean begotten?
Click to expand...
Begotten is the past participle of beget and means 1) Bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction. 2) Give rise to; bring about.

The understanding regarding John 3:16 is one of an intimate relationship between God and Jesus without implying sexual intimacy between God and Mary. So, yes, this is an example of cognitive dissonance in the sense that Jesus was the son of Mary and God, but without normal physical relations between the two or even through the miraculous union of an egg from Mary with a sperm from God, astaghfir'Allah.

This brings us to the second definition of beget, but we know that God also gave rise to Adam and brought him into being or existence. In this sense the likeness of Jesus is that of Adam, but it denies Jesus being the 'only begotten Son' of God which is in agreement with surah Al-Ikhlas.

There is no more widely known verse of the Bible than John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life." which Jesus is quoted as saying in the third person almost as one would speak of someone else. It seems logical that if Jesus was actually speaking here he would say something like, "whosoever believes on me". Notice the similarity and contrast with the Quran 3:31 "Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If you love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." Allah (swt) is telling Muhammad to tell the people "follow me" which is in the first person, but it is prefaced with "say" to indicate that another is actually speaking.
 
Ramadhan and Abz2000, very well said...

with ref to the council of Nicea - it was much worse than canonizing the bible bro Ramadhan. At that time, the Romans were finding Christians who followed Jesus (AS) true teachings, rounded them all up and killed them. It was religious genocide. The Christianity we have today is exactly as bro Abz2000 has put it "simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct, often in distinct social contexts."


Where do we think the concept of trinity came from? Exactly my point.

As for the old testament, well. It's plain to see that it is in error. I was also taking a look at the Torah and found that to be a total farce... then there's the Talmud - a book which Zionists claim is a holy book, yet when I read some of it, I found it to be the most unholy book I have ever come across... I wish I could elaborate further, but I don't have my notes to hand at the moment.
 
Good one scimi

someone should post the youtube vid of ahmad deedat on this subject or dr zakir naik
 
Grace Seeker said:
With regard to the Bible, the Bible does not purport to be a dictated work of God. It is also not a single book. It is a collection of books. It has many human writers -- some known, some assumed, some completely unknown -- who, though inspired, also lent their own personality and character to that which was written. Thus, many of your arguments against it are against not the Bible but some fictional book you've invented in your own mind that it never actually claims to be.
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Very well put.
The other day, I told someone (I dont' remember who) that it looks like playing a game with yourself. It is like in those video games where people eventually forget that they are in a virtual world playing with themselves. The 'adversaries' are so well designed by the programmer that they appear real. The overhelming desire to win does the rest in hijacking the temporal sense of reality.

When this is applied to the Bible, it is a real tragedy. Amazing what pride and other desires can do to us humans.

I love God. His sense of self-respect inspires more worship and praise in me. He has a way of disciplining truly worthy of his holy majesty. He is truly just; there is nothing more just than to let people have what they want. I love God.
 
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Amigo said:
Very well put.
The other day, I told someone (I dont' remember who) that it looks like playing a game with yourself. It is like in those video games where people eventually forget that they are in a virtual world playing with themselves. The 'adversaries' are so well designed by the programmer that they appear real. The overhelming desire to win does the rest in hijacking the temporal sense of reality.

When this is applied to the Bible, it is a real tragedy. Amazing what pride and other desires can do to us humans.

I love God. His sense of self-respect inspires more worship and praise in me. He has a way of disciplining truly worthy of his holy majesty. He is truly just; there is nothing more just than to let people have what they want. I love God.
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Is this doublethink or cognitive dissonance?

Or it maybe both?
 
I believe we should never say the Torah is a farce brother (with respect),
Since it was revealed by God to Musa (pbuh) and is mentioned numerous times in the Quran,
What I would say is that the "modified" book which is heavily riddled with edits has real issues,
And the provable false writings of men are a farce,

And regarding the Talmud........

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

...... What can you say?????
 
abz2000 said:
I believe we should never say the Torah is a farce brother (with respect),
Since it was revealed by God to Musa (pbuh) and is mentioned numerous times in the Quran,
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I think when br, Scimitar mentioned "torah", he meant the current pentateuch in the bible, not the torah as revealed to Musa (as).
We know that the jews/christians refer to the pentateuch as torah, but as we all know and it's been proven many times by bible scholars themselves, the pentateuch couldn't have been possibly written or authored by Musa (as) although it still may contain traces of torah as revealed to Musa (as) such as the commandment to worship the one god etc.

But yes, I think we should make clear which books we have in mind when we are in comparative religion discussions like this.
And you are right: we must not say "torah is farce", because that would be ridiculing the book as Allah revealed to Musa (pbuh).
 
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Amigo said:
The other day, I told someone (I dont' remember who) that it looks like playing a game with yourself. It is like in those video games where people eventually forget that they are in a virtual world playing with themselves. The 'adversaries' are so well designed by the programmer that they appear real. The overhelming desire to win does the rest in hijacking the temporal sense of reality.

When this is applied to the Bible, it is a real tragedy. Amazing what pride and other desires can do to us humans.

I love God. His sense of self-respect inspires more worship and praise in me. He has a way of disciplining truly worthy of his holy majesty. He is truly just; there is nothing more just than to let people have what they want. I love God.
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What kind of Christian are you? Which denomination do you follow?
 
as the saying goes, if you can't dazzle them with science baffle them with B.S ;D
 
Since we have agreed that the Bible is not the literal Word of God, what standard do Christians use to know that what they believe is the Truth?
 

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