Why are you an atheist?

[Pygoscelis]

It is an Islamic forum and these are the current affairs of Muslims we're discussing.

Oh my bad. I must have misread the thread title. I thought we were discussing why people are atheists.

pulling things out of a hat.. it is distracting and disrespectful!

Indeed.

 

[جوري]

Oh my bad. I must have misread the thread title. I thought we were discussing why people are atheists.
.

You're on to something now.. enough about me let's talk about you, what do you think of me.. type thing..

best,

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I don't really see the point in doing so. Won't you just ignore whatever I write and create your own answers to assign to me and other atheists as you've kept doing above?

I answered all your questions related to the topic of discussions/thread, but I refuse to be dragged into off topic.

But it's okay if you are unable to answer my questions related to your faith, it just seems to me that atheists would welcome all sorts of scrutiny and questions regarding their belief. You are reminding me of this christian evangelist who kept refusing to give his answers everytime I asked him tough questions regarding his belief and faith.

I guess I was wrong, but I hope my questions were able to make you really think about your belief and faith.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

But it's okay if you are unable to answer my questions related to your faith

I was so open to questions that I specifically came back to this forum (and was attacked for it) to answer some questions being asked. I went on to answer some questions by yourself, the answers of which you promptly ignored and invented your own to put in their place.

Go back and read what you asked, and what my responses were. You even directly quoted me saying something was possible (but I had no reason to adopt it) and then asked why I say it is so impossible. I called you on it. You ignored that and kept asking questions and inserting your own answers. Your compatriot here even then went on to openly admit she doesn't care what answers atheists give and that she's only here to troll. Given your refusal to read and address the answers given to your questions, instead of the answers you yourself assign, why should I see you as any different?

You don't need a real atheist like me for what you are doing here. You need only the imaginary one in your head, as that is who you are listening to anyway.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Go back and read what you asked, and what my responses were. You even directly quoted me saying something was possible (but I had no reason to adopt it) and then asked why I say it is so impossible. I called you on it. You ignored that and kept asking questions and inserting your own answers. Your compatriot here even then went on to openly admit she doesn't care what answers atheists give and that she's only here to troll. Given your refusal to read and address the answers given to your questions, instead of the answers you yourself assign, why should I see you as any different?

Not sure where your answers were.
can you please point/link them to me?

Here's some of my questions that you never answered:

Is this your truth?
How did you arrive at this absolute truth of yours?

Can you please tell me why "revealed truth" is such an impossibility?

Can you please tell me why the truth according to Islam is such an impossibility?

etc
etc.

And if I have not answered any of your on topic question, please direct me to those, and I will answer them.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I was so open to questions that I specifically came back to this forum ....
You don't need a real atheist like me for what you are doing here. You need only the imaginary one in your head, as that is who you are listening to anyway.

Pygoscelis, I grew up believing in both Santa Claus as bringer of gifts on Christmas eve and Jesus as the Son of God who sacrificed his life on the cross as the only acceptable means of reconciliation with God. I now believe in neither of these. However, I continue to believe in a Creator in no small part due to my detailed knowledge of genetics and molecular biology through which I strongly believe that life absolutely, irrefutably could not have arisen by chance. It is an impossibility to my mind that a seminal living Common Ancestor could have appeared by chance from inorganic elements or that this Common Ancestor, even if it existed, could have been the progenitor of all living and extinct species of life through a natural process without a Higher Power intimately directing and controlling the process. To me ToE is a pseudo-science that makes dramtatic leaps of faith to explain away the involvement of a Creator who believers know as God and Muslims know as Allah (swt). You call this a belief in a 'god of the gaps', but I see ToE and having much more inadequecy than gaps - it is an illogical hypothesis that is flimsily propped up by loose references to genetics, examples of intra-species changes in response to changes in the environment, and by a few fragments of fossilized bone. ToE is a hypothesis that has become accepted as a 'scientific theory' not by convincing scientific evidence to support it but rather by social pressure that it is the best available 'scientific' explanation for where we came from if one first presupposes that an unprovable entity, God, did not create us out of nothing.

My question is, "Why are you so unswervingly convinced that there is no God and that believers are deluding themselves into believing in a myth?"

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

If this is the only life you get then it is that much more important and meaningful. If this isn't a waiting room for what comes next then it is that much more important to celebrate and enjoy this life, and to help others towards the same.

I see merit in this statement if one does not take 'enjoy this life' strictly in a materialistic and hedonistic way. It is most certainly consistent with Islam to 'help others towards the same' as charity is very important.

 

[MustafaMc]

The genus Pygoscelis ("rump-legged") contains three living species of penguins collectively known as "The Brush-Tailed Penguins".

Chinstrap Penguin - Pygoscelis antarctica

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

However, I continue to believe in a Creator in no small part due to my detailed knowledge of genetics and molecular biology through which I strongly believe that life absolutely, irrefutably could not have arisen by chance.

But by introducing a creator you only push that back one step. Instead of having a spontaneously created or always existing universe you have a spontaneously or always existing creator of it. Instead of having life form from amino acids which themselves came together I know not how, you've got a super being, often claimed to be magical, that assembled life on this planet and we're left to wonder what assembled it.

But more importantly do you stop at "a creator" or do you then go on to name this creator as a God, attribute specific attributes, demands, etc to him? The former I can see as rational. The latter I can not. Although I am atheist, meaning I lack any belief in God(s), I don't have any real isue with deism.

You call this a belief in a 'god of the gaps', but I see ToE and having much more inadequecy than gaps - it is an illogical hypothesis that is flimsily propped up by loose references to genetics, examples of intra-species changes in response to changes in the environment, and by a few fragments of fossilized bone.

The difference between ToE and the "god of the gaps" kind of theology is that the former is an attempt to bridge the gap with science and research, inquiry and testing and revision, however flawed it may be, and the latter is hand waving and an easy answer to anything we don't know, steeped in dogmatic resitence to revision.

"God of the gaps" shrinks remarkably over the ages as science progresses and we learn more about the world around us. We used to attribute the rain to the Gods. We used to attribute illness to the Gods. Now we know about weather patterns and viruses. "god of the gaps" will probably always be with us, at the limits of our understanding, because we as humans tend to not like admitting when we don't know the answers.

that it is the best available 'scientific' explanation for where we came from if one first presupposes that an unprovable entity, God, did not create us out of nothing.

I'm curious. Do you think it is that? If you assume for a moment that there is no God, would evolution be the best teory to explain life on earth to you? Or do you see other ideas that you think would be better?

Why are you so unswervingly convinced that there is no God and that believers are deluding themselves into believing in a myth?

I'm not unswervingly 100% certain. A deistic God is plausible, were there any evidence for one, but I see none besides "god of the gaps". I am about as certain that there is no God as I am that there is no ESP, ghosts, etc. I have no reason to believe that such things exist.

As for the particular gods claimed by varoius relgions (ie, Allah, Ganesh, Zeus) of those I'm more confident don't exist, as they all tend to conflict with one another, are traceable to isolated origins (people tend to believe the religions of their own cultures), and typically make bold claims (such as global floods, resurrections from the dead, talking snakes, etc) that look no more credible than the native folk story of "how the eagle got its wings".

If you want to know how atheists view Islam and why, you need only consider how you view religions you don't believe in and why. I think the reason I don't believe in Allah is the same reason you don't believe in Zeus.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I see merit in this statement if one does not take 'enjoy this life' strictly in a materialistic and hedonistic way. It is most certainly consistent with Islam to 'help others towards the same' as charity is very important.

Exactly. There is a lot to be gained through giving to charity. I think one of the most common myths in the minds of theists about atheists is that we are hedonists. Most of us are not. You can see that simply by looking around. Atheists are not out there raping and pillaging in large numbers, and they do indeed give to charity more than many theists would imagine. My favourite charities are MSF (doctors without borders) and Kiva.org. I do keep an eye out for secular over religious based charities, as I do not like the idea of people in need having religion pushed on them along with whatever aid they are getting. Seems like a mild form of brainwashing to me.

 

[Pygoscelis]

The genus Pygoscelis ("rump-legged") contains three living species of penguins collectively known as "The Brush-Tailed Penguins".

Chinstrap Penguin - Pygoscelis antarctica
View attachment 4674

Impressive! I think you are the first to accurately identify the origin of my name.

*waddles away*

 

[جوري]

The rest of us knew too we just didn't want to point out your physical shortcomings when you were so forthcoming about them
try some calisthenics

 

[Who Am I?]

Eh, just don't do any Coca-Cola ads with polar bears and we're cool.

(Seriously, is anyone else as bothered by that as I am?)

 

[Pygoscelis]

Eh, just don't do any Coca-Cola ads with polar bears and we're cool.

(Seriously, is anyone else as bothered by that as I am?)

Yes, it always kind of annoyed me a little. Penguins are from the south pole. Polar bears are from the north. The only place a penguin will meet a polar bear is at a zoo.

 

[Who Am I?]

Yes, it always kind of annoyed me a little. Penguins are from the south pole. Polar bears are from the north. The only place a penguin will meet a polar bear is at a zoo.

Yes, thank you. You get it. Some people don't understand why those ads annoy me.

 

[GuestFellow]

I like penguins. So cute. Are they halal to eat?

Moving on, why are atheists considered to be agnostic by some people?

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

There is a lot to be gained through giving to charity.

And There have been extensive and intensive studies and research done that shows religious people give a lot more than atheists.

So that refutes your claim.

 

[Ramadhan]

Pygo,

I'd like you to point out any flaw with Islamic concept of God. I am not talking christian concept or pagan etc. And I am not talking about purple unicorn either. Please be adult and take discussion seriously

 

[Ramadhan]

The rest of us knew too we just didn't want to point out your physical shortcomings when you were so forthcoming about them
try some calisthenics

That's the thing with atheists: if we don't splatter it all over their eyes/ears, it means it is neither exist nor known.
I also knew about his screen name. My university in Australia had regular research base in Antarctica, and I wanted to volunteer in one of their trips, so I had to learn a LOT about antarctica, including penguins.
My fave is always the emperors. They are the most amazing animals. Their resolve is beyond belief. Subhanallah.

 

[GuestFellow]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

And There have been extensive and intensive studies and research done that shows religious people give a lot more than atheists.

So that refutes your claim.

There was one study where people that believe in God are less likely to commit suicide, mainly due to the fear of hellfire. But I'm not sure if this study was accurate since it was quite old, but it does contain an element of truth.