Why are you an atheist?

[SorayaCali]

My mom and sister are atheists, they say they don't see any evidence for God and that's pretty much it. Nothing deeper for them.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

How are we here is answered that God put us here and then the question becomes how is God here. Its ok that you are not interested in knowing that, but it is indeed the same question one degree removed.

I have some knowledge of how I, as an individual, 'evolved' from the 1) union of an egg and a sperm 2) that developed into an amorphous blob 3) that gradually developed into an alien-looking form similar in appearance to so many other animal embryo 4) that developed into a well-proportioned human infant inside my mothers womb 5) that was born into a completely foreign 'external' world 6) that grew through the stages of infancy and childhood into adulthood 7) that likewise fathered a son to repeat the same process. The earliest memory that I have is probably wen I was 3 years old and was with my mom when she had a truck wreck. I have no comprehension of my life inside the womb, but surely I was there. While I was in the womb I surely had almost no perception of the exterior world and I would have had no reason to 'believe' that another dimension/world existed at all beside the womb. Well, I believe in a life in the Hereafter after our death on earth that can be likened to being born a second time into a life that we can't imagine.

It really blows my mind to think about the amazing development of each individual that could be an analogy for how we developed as a species. I see that our individual development was largely programed in the unique sets of chromosomes that initially came together inside the womb and I know that I did not develop through some random process by mere chance. Understanding the development that I illustrated is enough for me and I don't see the need to ponder over the development of the various species. I am quite OK with 'God did it'. Likewise, I don't see the need to ponder over the nature of God as I readily admit that His nature and existence is something my mind cannot fathom. It would surely drive me to insanity to try to comprehend the Incomprehendable.

Its amazing isn't it? What astronomers and astrophysicists have been discovery is mind boggling. Dark matter and dark energy are even greater mysteries. I love following science

I can tell that you have a fascination with astronomy and such as I do with genetics and molecular biology. :statisfie

But isn't speculation how hypotheses are formed? We need to take what evidence we have and form theories so we can test them. Otherwise we can't really move forward.

Yes, but my opinion is that, despite what you wrote earlier, ToE is no more falsifiable than the existence of God. I use the scientific method almost every day in setting up hypotheses, designing and running experiments to collect data, and draw conclusions from the data that either validates or refutes my hypothesis. If my hypothesis was wrong, then I design a second experiment and make another go at it.

I'm not either. But I have no reason to believe that they are real. So without good evidence of them, I don't have any belief in them. Same goes for Gods.

I can imagine them sure. But I have no reason to believe they are any more real than other myths and stories.

There is no hard evidence for much of what we believe except for what is written in the Quran that we accept on faith is a revelation from God. Belief in Heaven and Hell is fundamental to my being a Muslim. If I didn't believe in those, I seriously doubt that I would pray 5X a day, fast during a whole month, give as much charity as I do, or have made pilgrimage to Mecca. If I didn't believe, I would probably live as 'Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I die.' There is no proof of the Hereafter, but woe to the one who disbelieves if there is and he did not do what he could to prepare for it. The ayat Quran 78:40 comes to mind Verily, We have warned you of a Penalty near, the Day when man will see (the deeds) which his hands have sent forth, and the Unbeliever will say, "Woe unto me! Would that I were (mere) dust!"

 

[Pygoscelis]

My mom and sister are atheists, they say they don't see any evidence for God and that's pretty much it. Nothing deeper for them.

That's why pretty much any atheist is an atheist. It is the reason I gave when I joined this thread as well, and one I keep repeating. That really is all there is to it.

It is the same reason most of us don't hold beliefs in ghosts, ESP, space aliens or time travelers invisible amongst us, faeries, etc. There doesn't have to be any "flaw" in any of these things for us to frantically point at. There's simply no reason for us to believe in them. Are they possible? Sure. Undectectable time travelers COULD be sitting next to you right now, reading this message over your shoulder. A lot of things we don't hold beliefs in are conceptually possible. Doesn't mean we should believe they are so.

 

[Ramadhan]

It is the same reason most of us don't hold beliefs in ghosts, ESP, space aliens or time travelers invisible amongst us, faeries, etc.

Can I ask you the reasons why you don't hold beliefs in ghosts, ESP, space aliens or time travelers invisible amongst us, faeries, etc?

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I am quite OK with 'God did it'.

"God Did It" has been the standard answer through the ages for whatever lay at the limits of human understanding. I can see how it would be comfortable. People don't like uncertainty. But I don't like how it can impede some from looking for real answers. Had we been ok with "God did it" and not looked further we'd have no modern science. I'm not saying it impedes everybody, and one way around it may be to ask "Ok, if God did it, then how did God do it? What was his tool or mechanism?" and then you're looking for the same things I am. As a scientist I'm guessing this is what you do.

Yes, but my opinion is that, despite what you wrote earlier, ToE is no more falsifiable than the existence of God.

I am no expert on evolution, but I do know a few folks who are and who have listed things that would falsify evolution (ie, a rabbit fossil in the precambrian age). I have never heard a theist list things that would falsify the possible existence of God.

I would probably live as 'Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I die.'

Maybe, but I doubt it. Most of us atheists are not hedonists.

This isn't you I'm thinking of, but some theists will occasionally tell me things like "Without God how can you have morals? If I was an atheist I'd be raping and killing", to which I do a double take and swiftly realize that religion IS needed by some people. But somebody who is truly this way would be a textbook sociopath (only being socially constructive because an authority (God) demands it). They lose sight of their own senses of empathy, compassion and community.

There is no proof of the Hereafter, but woe to the one who disbelieves if there is and he did not do what he could to prepare for it. The ayat Quran 78:40 comes to mind Verily, We have warned you of a Penalty near, the Day when man will see (the deeds) which his hands have sent forth, and the Unbeliever will say, "Woe unto me! Would that I were (mere) dust!"

Sounds like the Islamic version of Pascal's wager, which goes like this:

1. Either there is or there isn't a god

2. If there is a God and I fail to believe in him and worship him, etc, I will go to hell.

3. If there is no God and I believe and worship him, I lose nothing

4. Therefore it is the better bet to believe and worship.

There are a number of flaws with this, many of which I hope are obvious on the face of it. It presents a false dichotomy (what if you worship the WRONG God, as you statistically are almost certain to do and what if his punishment for worshiping false gods is more severe than for worshiping no Gods). It presumes we can decide what we believe (Can you believe you are an elephant?). It reduces theology to a game, which I would think would be offensive to the religious. It fails to account for rituals and beliefs that actually do more harm than good (You MAY lose something from worshiping, depending on the religion), etc.

 

[Ramadhan]

Also, Pygo, when you refer to "religion", it would help a lot if you can be more specific to Islam. Because most of your rejections and arguments against religions cannot really be applied to Islam.

This is "Islamic Board" and you have been a member for 6 years, and I think it would show good intention on your part if you show a little bit of understanding of basic Islamic principles.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Sounds like the Islamic version of Pascal's wager, which goes like this:

1. Either there is or there isn't a god

2. If there is a God and I fail to believe in him and worship him, etc, I will go to hell.

3. If there is no God and I believe and worship him, I lose nothing

4. Therefore it is the better bet to believe and worship.

Islam does not base belief on God on Pacal's wager. In fact, in Al Qur'an there are countless verses that tell mankind to "ponder" "learn" "reflect" etc etc to arrive in conclusion in the belief in God.

that verse is nothing like pascal's wager.

 

[CosmicPathos]

I have no reason to believe in time travelers and fantasies because I would not have known about those things if I was not told about them since they are man-made concepts. On the contrary children know about a Creator without anyone telling them about Him. They perhaps might not know his name, but they know of a Creator.

Moreover, time travel and fairies go against the laws of physical universe, but a Creator does not go against the laws of universe and physical existence as He is not within universe. Its really childish when you create a false comparison. I'd expect more sophistication from an atheist.

 

[جوري]

Can you please quote the sources for this research?

There is alot of research that shows scientists and doctors are overwhelmingly believers in God as well. I personally think such studies are useless and meaningless. Whether for or against as they appeal to authority not logic, reason wisdom nor is science here used for good. (In general most folks don't know how to read scientific papers) includes an overwhelming number of scientists.
However there's little truth to what he says, not so much that those more educated are non-believers rather those with more wealth & power For both are the tools of Satan that he uses to blind his followers and both along with children are the lure of this world...I reference you to my thread 'when sheep are shepherded by wolves.' And I guarantee you if you read it and discern it, it will all fall into place for you...

 

[Ramadhan]

Also, Pygo, you offered that when people really believe that this life is all there is, they would appreciate life a lot more, then why is it that more atheists support euthanasia, higher tendency for suicide among atheists, and more support for abortion and babies killing among atheists?

 

[جوري]

Also, Pygo, you offered that when people really believe that this life is all there is, they would appreciate life a lot more, then why is it that more atheists support euthanasia, higher tendency for suicide among atheists, and more support for abortion and babies killing among atheists?

In fact people who don't comply with fitrah are the most miserable and have the highest rates of suicides they'll glamorize their lives and pretend to be happy that it is all normal.. when it isn't

e also: Homosexuality and psychology The likelihood of suicide attempts are increased in both gay males and lesbians, as well as bisexuals of both sexes when compared to their heterosexual counterparts.[SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP][SUP][22][/SUP] The trend of having a higher incident rate among females is no exception with lesbians or bisexual females and when compared with homosexual males, lesbians are more likely to attempt than gay or bisexual males.[SUP][23]

[/SUP]


http://people.ucalgary.ca/~ramsay/attempted-suicide-gay-lesbian-all-studies.htm


Any path that leads you away from God will put a seal of rust upon your heart, blinders upon your eyes and plugs around your ears so that you're left to your own devices convincing yourself and arming yourself with the conviction of those of like minds that, that is the norm.

 

[SorayaCali]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

CosmicPathos has PM'd me asking follow up questions to this thread. Unfortunately it seems I don't have the privileges yet to respond to PM's, so please do post questions to me on this thread

 

[Pygoscelis]

Moreover, time travel and fairies go against the laws of physical universe

Oh? How's that? I've seen people who believe in time travel, ghosts, ESP, and the like move goal posts and render their beliefs unfasifiable just as much as theists do. Cloaked space aliens amongst us and faeries can be just as unfalsifiable if presented that way as well.

We keep drifting from the subject of this thread though. The question is "Why are you an atheist" and the answer is becasue we've got no rational non-faith based reason to be otherwise. We are atheists becasue theism is not convincing to us. That really is all there is to it.

 

[جوري]

the answer is becasue we've got no rational

That resonates with me as truth!

best,

 

[Aprender]

Any path that leads you away from God will put a seal of rust upon your heart, blinders upon your eyes and plugs around your ears so that you're left to your own devices convincing yourself and arming yourself with the conviction of those of like minds that, that is the norm.

Yeah. And anyone that tells them otherwise is an intolerant bigot. =/ I went to an interfaith dialogue last semester about LGBT issues at the university and that was pretty much the scheme of things. People who didn't approve of the LGBT lifestyle were pretty much labeled dumb and intolerant. I actually got a little shocked when some of the gay and lesbian people in the group started comparing the bullying that they get in schools to what Muslims are subjected to in Western society...

 

[جوري]

Yeah. And anyone that tells them otherwise is an intolerant bigot. =/ I went to an interfaith dialogue last semester about LGBT issues at the university and that was pretty much the scheme of things. People who didn't approve of the LGBT lifestyle were pretty much labeled dumb and intolerant. I actually got a little shocked when some of the gay and lesbian people in the group started comparing the bullying that they get in schools to what Muslims are subjected to in Western society...

Where else but the west can piety and lewd sexual preferences be equal?
Anyhow it doesn't grieve me one way or another.. I don't care to waste resources treating a problem when there's a preventative cure..
They do this to their own souls and are in fact projecting their own psychology of intolerance for by their very narrow definition they accuse others of what they're guilty of.
Atheism is a broad term I have come to believe that compasses all that is malefic and Amoral if not frankly immoral..

 

[Pygoscelis]

The likelihood of suicide attempts are increased in both gay males and lesbians, as well as bisexuals of both sexes when compared to their heterosexual counterparts.

Wow really? I wonder if that has anything to do with living in a society and often in a family that lables them abominations, forbids them from marrying the ones they love, forbids them to adopt, and generally sneers at who they are. Note how most of the links connected to the one you posted are about bullying.

The It Gets Better campaign direclty addresses this. Once these kids grow up and get away from these parents and peers who hate them for who they are, if often does get better for them in later life. Not all homosexuals get bogged down with depression, etc. Many actually wind up as super happy, friendly and dare I say it, gay.

But we're getting off topic again

 

[Pygoscelis]

I actually got a little shocked when some of the gay and lesbian people in the group started comparing the bullying that they get in schools to what Muslims are subjected to in Western society...

I haven't seen any laws on the books yet purporting to forbid muslims from marrying those they love, or from adopting children, etc. It really depends where in western society we're talking about. Some places are tolerant of muslims and gays, some are tolerant of one and not the other, and some are bigotted against both.

I'd also point out that religion is far more a choice than sexual orientation is.

Actually given how much bigotry there is in the USA against muslims, I'd have thought they'd have sympathy for the homosexuals, blacks, atheists, and other groups who are also targets of such blind hatred.

 

[SorayaCali]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Yeah. And anyone that tells them otherwise is an intolerant bigot. =/ I went to an interfaith dialogue last semester about LGBT issues at the university and that was pretty much the scheme of things.

To be fair, my sister is a lesbian and she was tormented much of her school life. She was beaten up more than once. A fair amount of gay people don't exactly have it easy.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Atheism is a broad term I have come to believe that compasses all that is malefic and Amoral if not frankly immoral..

Are you aware that most homosexuals are theists?