Prove that the Qur'an is NOT the word of God.

[Hisbul_Aziz]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

The meaning of the word muslim means in Arabic literally, one who surrenders (to God)
(if no one said that yet)

And the prophet salalahu3lahi wasalam

A muslim is sincear he loves allah (surrender himself)

 

[Bertsura]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

So in this logic, since people can't prove that the Qur'an isn't the word of God, then the Qur'an is the word of God? It does not follow. It's like saying invisible pink unicorns exist because no one can prove otherwise.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

So in this logic, since people can't prove that the Qur'an isn't the word of God, then the Qur'an is the word of God?

No, it does not say such a thing in this thread at all. This thread has a companion thread, btw:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13998-prove-quran-word-god.html

 

[Deus]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

contradictions and errors in the Quran, Here are some examples I am aware of

Sun-set and Sun-rise

The Quran teaches us that the Sun sets in a muddy spring:

· Quran-18:86: Till, when he (the traveler Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

· Quran- 18:90: Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

There are serious scientific errors here. Firstly, it is a scientifically accepted fact that the Sun never goes down into a muddy spring. Secondly, this seems to presuppose a FLAT Earth, otherwise how can there be an extreme point in the West or in the East? A sunrise there would be basically just the same as at any other place on this earth, at land or sea. It would still look as if it is setting “far away.” It does say, that he reached THE PLACE where the Sun sets and in his second journey THE PLACE where it rises.

How many days did it take to create the Heavens and the Earth?

· Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-10:3: Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran- 11:7: He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

· Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

The above verses clearly state that Allah ( God) created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below state

· Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

· Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

· Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

A Resting Place for the Sun?

· Quran-36:38: And the Sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

· Quran-36:39: And for the moon, We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shriveled palm leaf.

· Quran-36:40: It is not for Sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

lots of problems with these verses

ky/Heaven is Nothing but A ROOF or Canopy over the Earth:

· Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

· Quran-31:10: He hath created the heavens (Skies) without supports (pillars) that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm Mountains/Hills, so that it quake not with you; and He hath dispersed…

· Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky ( heavens ) as roof (canopy) well guarded…

· Quran-2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

There are no pillars holding up the sky, the sky is not a roof

Sun and Moon Rotates:

· Quran-31: 29: Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; That He has subjected the Sun and moon (to His law), each running its course for a term (time) appointed.

· Quran-21: 33: It is He who created the Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them swim (float) along in its own course.

We know that the sun's movement doesnt cause night and day it is in fact that earth's rotation that causes night and day

Earth is Spread Out Like a Carpet (Flat)

· Quran-15:19: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable;

· Quran-78: 6-7: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs (anchor)?

IT says the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us??????? another problem

Quran-75:38: Then he becomes a CLOT; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned…

· Quran-96:2: Created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood

This is essentially "borrowed from the ancient greeks, In fact the foetus or zygote at conception is not at all made of blood

Which one is correct?

· Quran-2:256: There is no Compulsion in religion….

OR

· Quran-9:29: Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.

This is anothr major problem which one do moslems turn to?

This is besides all the obvious issues with inheritance law and death to apostates and all that other stuff,

I wish people would respond to my post on Islamic Economics, I am keen on opening a dialgue on economics, this is the link to that post

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...g-islam-economic-policy.html?highlight=policy

 

[i_m_tipu]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

Peace

I m in office
so it difficult for me to ans u in time.. but i m tring

Qur’an -41:9: Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?
Qur’an- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed
blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due
Proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

"four Days" in verse 10 to include the two Days in verse 9, so that the total for the universe comes to six Days. This is reasonable, because the processes described in verses 9 and 10 form really one series. In one case it is the creation of the formless matter of the earth; in the other case it is the gradual evolution of the from of the earth, its mountains and seas, and its animal and vegetable life, with the "nourishment in due proportion", proper to each.

"in four Days" - In completion of four days as one says: I walked from Basra to Baghdad in ten days and to Kufa in fifteen days meaning in completion of fifteen days.

U Can Question: what is the reason for saying "in four Days"? Imam Az-Zamakhshari answers as follows:

If you say: Wouldn't it be better said: 'in two days'? And what is the benefit of this conclusion? I say: If He says in four days after He have said that earth was created in two days, it is acknowledged that things in it were created in two days. So, the choice between saying in two days and saying in four days becomes equal. But (saying) in four days has a benefit over (saying) in two days; it is the indication that they were exactly four complete days no more and no less. If He said: in two days, while (the term) two days can be given to most of the two days, it would be possible that He meant by the first and the last two days the most of them.

And only God knows best.

 

[Deus]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

perhaps the whole created the heaven and the earth and so on in so many days comes down to the logic of semantics, I have to say I don't understand you very well, what about all the other verses,
Also we should all know that the earth was not made in 4 or 6 days, but a process of approximately 700 million years.

 

[i_m_tipu]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

Proclaim!
In the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, who created -
created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood.
-- Sura 96:1-2

It is he who has created man from water
-- Sura 25:54

And God has created every living creature from water.
-- Sura 24:45

We created man from sounding clay,
from mud moulded into shape.
-- Sura 15:26

Amongst his signs is this,
that he created you from dust.
-- Sura 30:20

Blood clot? water? clay? dust? The Qur'an doesn't really seem all that sure what God used and seems to imply that He took just anything he could get his hands on. But this is still not all in this confusion:

God createth what He willeth:
When he hath decreed a plan,
He but saith to it, "Be," and it is!
-- Sura 3:47

He just says the word "be" and it is, there is no making a mess with water, clay, blood clots or dust, just a clean "there it is". Right?

Sura 4:82 claims that there is no discrepancy in this Qur'an!

Do Allaah ever say I created man from only------ this?

Prove me wrong now
I made a cake.
I made a cake from flour.
I made a cake from sugar.
I made a cake from eggs.
I made a cake from water.

Do you think I just "took anything I could get my hands on" to make my cake? (I think leaving out any of those ingredients would no longer render it a cake) Do any of my statements contradict each other? So just like I know what my cake is made from, so does the Qur'an know what man was made from.

Was there a discrepancy in my making of a cake? If not, then where is the discrepancy in the Qur'an's testimony of what a man is made from?

And what do you know...

Surah 40:67
"He it is who created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot, then brings you forth as a child ..."

Surah 23:12-14
"Verily We created man from a product of wet earth, then placed him as a drop of seed in a safe lodging, then We fashioned the drop a clot, and of the clot We fashioned bones, and We clothed the bones with flesh. Then We produced it as another creation."

Now, back to the top of the page, we see 96:1-2 as a stage. We see the ingredients of water, dust, sounding clay and mud in the other verses can be resolved with elementary set theory.

And one more thing, does the fact that God can create at will by saying "`Be` and it is" mean he can not form man however he wishes. God is the owner of all. He can do whatever He wants.

Saying "I made a cake from water" does not imply that there are anymore or any less ingredients. If my initial response (or any response) seems so general, does that render my explanation wrong?

i m Researching and beleive me it is extremely helpfull to me
Thank u for putting this kind of thread

it does not matter what u think or thought
i know one thing true is true and lie is lie

peace

 

[i_m_tipu]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

ky/Heaven is Nothing but A ROOF or Canopy over the Earth:

· Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

· Quran-31:10: He hath created the heavens (Skies) without supports (pillars) that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm Mountains/Hills, so that it quake not with you; and He hath dispersed…

· Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky ( heavens ) as roof (canopy) well guarded…

· Quran-2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

There are no pillars holding up the sky, the sky is not a roof

U says:
There are no pillars holding up the sky
Qur'an says:
Quran-31:10: He hath created the heavens (Skies) without supports (pillars) i don't find any problem if u still find problem go to doctor than.

U says:
the sky is not a roof
it seem that either u or ur leader discover the whole universe in order to make such statement.
Scientist has discover a very tiny part of the universe
can any Scientist pove without doubt about the Roof that the Qur'an talking about.

let u know that human knowledge is very very tiny compare to GOD knowledge

peace

 

[HeiGou]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

U says:
There are no pillars holding up the sky
Qur'an says:
Quran-31:10: He hath created the heavens (Skies) without supports (pillars) i don't find any problem if u still find problem go to doctor than.

U says:
the sky is not a roof
it seem that either u or ur leader discover the whole universe in order to make such statement.
Scientist has discover a very tiny part of the universe
can any Scientist pove without doubt about the Roof that the Qur'an talking about.

let u know that human knowledge is very very tiny compare to GOD knowledge

peace

For the record, I do not think I posted the article you are replying to. Nor can I find a copy of it with my name on it. Please do not foist opinions on me I do not, or may not, hold.

No doubt scientists have discovered a tiny part of the Universe. But Muslim non-scientists have discovered nothing scientific about the Universe at all. You may state that human knowledge is tiny compared to God's knowledge, but how do you know? Have you talked to Him?

 

[hidaayah]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

You may state that human knowledge is tiny compared to God's knowledge, but how do you know? Have you talked to Him?

Muhammad (s) told us and the Quran says that..and the one who created everything surely knows everything..!!

 

[irsha]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

Muhammad (s) told us and the Quran says that..and the one who created everything surely knows everything..!!

circular argument- you believe the koran is the word of god because the koran told you so

 

[hidaayah]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)


Is the Quran Gods word.? by Zakir Naik..
http://www.irf.net/is_quran_gods_word_I.doc
http://www.irf.net/is_quran_gods_word_II.doc

 

[i_m_tipu]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

sorry HeiGou that was an accident i correct the Quote title

see man can do mistake GOD can't

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: Death to Apostates (?)

contradictions and errors in the Quran, Here are some examples I am aware of

Before you start with your list, you may want to read the 50 odd refuations I have written on this subject available here:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal/alleged_contradictions

Most of what you've mentioned has already been answered.

Sun-set and Sun-rise

Answered at the beginning of this very thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/174248-post7.html
More links:
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=466&sscatid=210
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar
http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/zul-qarnain.html
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...sh-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE
http://faithfreedom.com/anti_islamic_claims/zulqarnain.html
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/quranic-commentary-on-sura-al-kahf-1886/

How many days did it take to create the Heavens and the Earth?

http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/The_Number_of_Days_Taken_to_Create_the_Universe/

A Resting Place for the Sun?

http://islamanswers.net/science/Quran.htm [towards the end - search "36:38"]
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/print.php?articleid=98 [interpretation as solar apex]

Heaven is Nothing but A ROOF or Canopy over the Earth:

http://miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_20.html

Sun and Moon Rotates:

They do.

We know that the sun's movement doesnt cause night and day it is in fact that earth's rotation that causes night and day

Can you highlight the part that says the sun's movement causes night and day?

Earth is Spread Out Like a Carpet (Flat)

IT says the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us??????? another problem

As for the earth as a carpet, I have a very in-depth analysis of these verses by Shaykh M. Mohar Ali - if you want to discuss these verses further, let me know and I'll post them. As for the 'mountains as pegs' aspect, maybe you should take your argument to Dr. Zaghloul An-Najjar, PhD from Wales University in geology, Member of the Geological Society of London, the Geological Society of Egypt and the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, Tulsa, Oklahoma. Fellow of the Institute of Petroleum, London. Dr. An-Najjar's explanation is found here:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2002/09/article13-a.shtml#22

Quran-75:38: Then he becomes a CLOT; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned…

· Quran-96:2: Created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood

This is essentially "borrowed from the ancient greeks, In fact the foetus or zygote at conception is not at all made of blood

http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/PlagiarismGreek/

· Quran-2:256: There is no Compulsion in religion….

OR

· Quran-9:29: Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.

The following article of mine explains all such verses in context:
http://www.load-islam.com/c/rebuttals/Misquoted

Peace.

 

[katonna]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Not to get off the subject, but how do you feel about buddhist? Could you ever worship with one?

 

[Mohsin]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Not to get off the subject, but how do you feel about buddhist? Could you ever worship with one?

Sorry what do you mean

 

[------]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

The Koran and the Bible are soooo totally different only one could have come from God.

Actually if you see the ORIGINAL Bible, you can notice some similarities in between the Bible and the Qur'an.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Hello Nicola ,

The Koran and the Bible are soooo totally different only one could have come from God.

Of course there are some major differences between the Bible and the Qur'an, but the essential message of the prophets as recorded in the Bible is very similar to that described in the Qur'an. For more information, you might find the following a very interesting read:
The First and Final Commandment by Dr. Laurence Brown MD.

Hello j4763 ,

Nether did, they both came from man’s mind.

Well this thread is all about proof, so why not back up what you say with some concrete evidence? We'll see if you can do that.

Regards

 

[j4763]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Hello Nicola ,

Of course there are some major differences between the Bible and the Qur'an, but the essential message of the prophets as recorded in the Bible is very similar to that described in the Qur'an. For more information, you might find the following a very interesting read:
The First and Final Commandment by Dr. Laurence Brown MD.

Hello j4763 ,

Well this thread is all about proof, so why not back up what you say with some concrete evidence? We'll see if you can do that.

Regards

Well they were both written by man, not god. Maybe some beleave its gods words but never the less man wrote them. There is also no "concrete evidence" that it is gods words.

If i could go back in time a plant a "script" somewhere in a cave, say a peterpan book, i'm sure we would have a load of people beleaving that neverland is a real place today.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Well they were both written by man, not god. Maybe some beleave its gods words but never the less man wrote them.

Instead of posting the evidence that I asked for, you instead simply repeated your claim. I'll take this as an admission that you are unable to substantiate your allegations in this regard.

There is also no "concrete evidence" that it is gods words.

This thread is for discussing alleged evidence against the Qur'an's divine authorship. For a discussion of evidence for the Qur'an's divine authorship, please see the companion thread to this discussion:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13998-prove-quran-word-god.html

Regards