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no offence to nimrod but your name cracks me up nimrod means someone kinda dumb-witted and stupid in most lingos that i know of...no offence..just being honest
Did Jesus (p) Deny Being God?
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Quran prooves that Jesus denied to be God's son
Peace be upon everyone,
As a Muslim, I respect other religions though sometimes that many things in thier religion is not consistent with one another.
I am unable to understand how people can believe that Jesus and God are one. the God who is infinite and immortal must not be in equal feet with the human being who is powerless even if he was a prophet.
In Quran, God answers those who believe that Jesus is the son of God. The answer is so clear in Surah al-Maida" or "Table Spread" in which God says:
" Certainly they disbelieve who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help (72) They disbelieved who say: Allah is one of three (in a Trinity): for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous chastisement will befall the disbelievers among them (73) Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful (74) Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth (75)"
Instead of going back to the Bible to quote or take facts about whether Jesus denied being god or no, it is better to go back to Quran which is free from errors and modifications.
Peace be upon everyone,
As a Muslim, I respect other religions though sometimes that many things in thier religion is not consistent with one another.
I am unable to understand how people can believe that Jesus and God are one. the God who is infinite and immortal must not be in equal feet with the human being who is powerless even if he was a prophet.
In Quran, God answers those who believe that Jesus is the son of God. The answer is so clear in Surah al-Maida" or "Table Spread" in which God says:
" Certainly they disbelieve who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help (72) They disbelieved who say: Allah is one of three (in a Trinity): for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous chastisement will befall the disbelievers among them (73) Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful (74) Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth (75)"
Instead of going back to the Bible to quote or take facts about whether Jesus denied being god or no, it is better to go back to Quran which is free from errors and modifications.
SolaChristo
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Re: Quran prooves that Jesus denied to be God's son
As a Christian I beleive that the koran is full of error. I go to the bible because I know it is gods inerrant word.
As a Christian I beleive that the koran is full of error. I go to the bible because I know it is gods inerrant word.
Skillganon
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Nimrod, doing nasty stuff with animal is a sin in Islam.
The thread you posted on a man marriage to animal is unIslamic, and is a very big sin itself!
The OT mentions people who do that must be killed! Their are other thing's in the OT you will not agree on!!! I wont post it hear, because you might take it as an attack!!!
In Islam, I don't know if it mentioned that the animal molester must be killed, although it's a grave sin. Do you know for sure, that's what I am saying.
Here! ANIMALE AWARENESS
The thread you posted on a man marriage to animal is unIslamic, and is a very big sin itself!
The OT mentions people who do that must be killed! Their are other thing's in the OT you will not agree on!!! I wont post it hear, because you might take it as an attack!!!
In Islam, I don't know if it mentioned that the animal molester must be killed, although it's a grave sin. Do you know for sure, that's what I am saying.
Here! ANIMALE AWARENESS
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Skillganon the point is that when Islam gives to list of sins a person MUST be killed for, such as converting away from Islam, the sin of having relations with animals isn't on that short list.
Why the change from the Law as it was first writen?
If the usual reason is going to be offered "well that scripture has been corrupted by men", then what logical reason would they have for going back and inserting or changing the verses I cited?
This goes to the heart of what most everyone has done to scripture I have posted.
"Oh we don't agree with that because the bible has been changed over the years" or "we don't accept any scripture that disagrees with Islam"
Just a blanket dismissal of so much scripture with out offering a good sound arguement for the dismissel of each verse isn't wise.
I wish you understood.
May God continue to enlighten us all.
Thanks
Nimrod
Why the change from the Law as it was first writen?
If the usual reason is going to be offered "well that scripture has been corrupted by men", then what logical reason would they have for going back and inserting or changing the verses I cited?
This goes to the heart of what most everyone has done to scripture I have posted.
"Oh we don't agree with that because the bible has been changed over the years" or "we don't accept any scripture that disagrees with Islam"
Just a blanket dismissal of so much scripture with out offering a good sound arguement for the dismissel of each verse isn't wise.
I wish you understood.
May God continue to enlighten us all.
Thanks
Nimrod
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sola christo, Never say that Quran is full of errors
Salam,
Give me one proof that Quran is full of errors? you are saying whatever, just rubbish. You do not have to say anything wrong bout our Holy Book.
You have many bibles and each one diffrent from the other. The bible was modified centuries ago before the Rennaisance. The Church men were corrupt people and they used religion for serving their own interests. They were very strict. This what led Europeans to aske for "secularization" and seperating religion from other aspects of life because such a religion was not pure from God and was against development. Many scientific facts that were discovered were critisized by church men. But as Muslims we believe and love all religions. I, personally love Jesus very much and His mother. One of Chapter of Quran called "Mary". But Jesus is innocent from the christians claims which say that He is the son of God. This is crazy. God is not like human beings have a wife and a son. If Jesus was God's son, then , Adam had to be his son,too. Not only this, we had to be God's sons and daughters, too, because our soul is from God.
As God was able to create Adam from nothing, He was able to create Jesus from only one woman. God wants to proove that He is able to do what He wants and He doesnt have to follow the human logic.
Just use your brain, if all men become monks and all women become nuns, the humanity will stop and everyone will reach a point and die. Thats crazy.
Listen, our Quran " Holy book" is protected from any changes. It is the last Book. this means that it sealed all other Books and corrected the others.
Other important thing, the Quran which was revealed to our Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) more than fourteen centuries ago is the same as the Quran we have in our homes and in our heart, no word missing except in some Qurans translated in other languages by bad people like, Jacque Berck and others. The Arab version of Quran is the same in india, Morocco, Uk and everywhere.
Your Bible is sometimes re-written by human beings who can err.
Our Quran is full of miracles which have just been discovered by Western scholars and scientists and some things still not discovered yet.
So, before saying anything about Quran, you should respect yourself and dont say things that will make you regret and pay the price in this world as well as the afterlife.
Bye.
Salam,
Give me one proof that Quran is full of errors? you are saying whatever, just rubbish. You do not have to say anything wrong bout our Holy Book.
You have many bibles and each one diffrent from the other. The bible was modified centuries ago before the Rennaisance. The Church men were corrupt people and they used religion for serving their own interests. They were very strict. This what led Europeans to aske for "secularization" and seperating religion from other aspects of life because such a religion was not pure from God and was against development. Many scientific facts that were discovered were critisized by church men. But as Muslims we believe and love all religions. I, personally love Jesus very much and His mother. One of Chapter of Quran called "Mary". But Jesus is innocent from the christians claims which say that He is the son of God. This is crazy. God is not like human beings have a wife and a son. If Jesus was God's son, then , Adam had to be his son,too. Not only this, we had to be God's sons and daughters, too, because our soul is from God.
As God was able to create Adam from nothing, He was able to create Jesus from only one woman. God wants to proove that He is able to do what He wants and He doesnt have to follow the human logic.
Just use your brain, if all men become monks and all women become nuns, the humanity will stop and everyone will reach a point and die. Thats crazy.
Listen, our Quran " Holy book" is protected from any changes. It is the last Book. this means that it sealed all other Books and corrected the others.
Other important thing, the Quran which was revealed to our Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) more than fourteen centuries ago is the same as the Quran we have in our homes and in our heart, no word missing except in some Qurans translated in other languages by bad people like, Jacque Berck and others. The Arab version of Quran is the same in india, Morocco, Uk and everywhere.
Your Bible is sometimes re-written by human beings who can err.
Our Quran is full of miracles which have just been discovered by Western scholars and scientists and some things still not discovered yet.
So, before saying anything about Quran, you should respect yourself and dont say things that will make you regret and pay the price in this world as well as the afterlife.
Bye.
because christianity is a religion of spiritualism more than anything else. The religious men devote thier lives to serve people without getting married though this is their natural right. Islam is 50% soul and 50% body. Islam is moderation and equilibruim.
this not the point of discussion i commented on Solo Christo's claim that he belives that quran is full of errors. It is whatever, give prooves.........
this not the point of discussion i commented on Solo Christo's claim that he belives that quran is full of errors. It is whatever, give prooves.........
i know that not all christians have to be monks and nuns. i just say imagine. because those people want to reach the highest level of paradise by depriving themselves from all amnities of life. Religious people in Islam enjoy thier life and worship god at the same time.
Ivanna thanks for the reply. I would say that Christianty is mostly based on teachings of Jesus, wouldn't you?
What teachings of Jesus would lead a person to believe that most should become monks and nuns?
Ivanna I know how it is to get into a thread some 20 pages long and have to wade your way throught it all.
However wading your way through it might explain why the discussion is at the point it is.
You have raised some valid points, I agree that they should be raised, but they have already been posted and answered on this thread, mostly anyway.
Thanks
Nimrod
What teachings of Jesus would lead a person to believe that most should become monks and nuns?
Ivanna I know how it is to get into a thread some 20 pages long and have to wade your way throught it all.
However wading your way through it might explain why the discussion is at the point it is.
You have raised some valid points, I agree that they should be raised, but they have already been posted and answered on this thread, mostly anyway.
Thanks
Nimrod
Re: sola christo, Never say that Quran is full of errors
The problem is that the Quran, like the Bible, is open to all sorts of possible interpretations and has been explained and clarified over the generations. Of course Muslims do not think there is any error in it. But Muslims at one time seemed to think that it said things that now Muslims would agree were errors. It has been used to argue the world is flat (because the Sun goes down at a particular spot) and that the Sun goes around the Earth. Of course no one much believes this anymore.
How can you be corrupt and strict? The Churches have basically the same Bible. There is some minor disagreement about which books are canonical but no more. There is no evidence that it was modified at any point and before the Renaissance the entire Western Christian world had one Bible.
Muslims do not have corrupt ulama and Sultans? They do not use religion for their own purposes and never have?
Actually Europeans just found that religious politics were not very nice while secular politics lead to peacem prosperity and development. Nothing else.
As they were by ulama at various points in time as well.
So by "believe and love all religions" you mean "hate, dismiss and hold in contempt while claiming to respect"? Why is it crazy to believe that Jesus was the Son of God given He said He was? No one says God has a wife and a son like normal human beings. We are all sons and daughters of God in the general sense.
And so if He wanted, He could be manifest in the shape of Jesus don't you think? Or do you think this would be beyond His powers?
How do you know? Umar said that the Quran used to contain a verse on stoning adulterers. Was he wrong? I am told this verse was abrogated which is reasonable. But when and by whom?
2. How do you know?
The problem is that the Quran, like the Bible, is open to all sorts of possible interpretations and has been explained and clarified over the generations. Of course Muslims do not think there is any error in it. But Muslims at one time seemed to think that it said things that now Muslims would agree were errors. It has been used to argue the world is flat (because the Sun goes down at a particular spot) and that the Sun goes around the Earth. Of course no one much believes this anymore.
How can you be corrupt and strict? The Churches have basically the same Bible. There is some minor disagreement about which books are canonical but no more. There is no evidence that it was modified at any point and before the Renaissance the entire Western Christian world had one Bible.
Muslims do not have corrupt ulama and Sultans? They do not use religion for their own purposes and never have?
Actually Europeans just found that religious politics were not very nice while secular politics lead to peacem prosperity and development. Nothing else.
As they were by ulama at various points in time as well.
So by "believe and love all religions" you mean "hate, dismiss and hold in contempt while claiming to respect"? Why is it crazy to believe that Jesus was the Son of God given He said He was? No one says God has a wife and a son like normal human beings. We are all sons and daughters of God in the general sense.
And so if He wanted, He could be manifest in the shape of Jesus don't you think? Or do you think this would be beyond His powers?
How do you know? Umar said that the Quran used to contain a verse on stoning adulterers. Was he wrong? I am told this verse was abrogated which is reasonable. But when and by whom?
1. No it is not.
2. How do you know?
i_m_tipu
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look nimrod
u have a very little brain compare to GOD as well as we also
we muslim never think we r a better thinker than a GOD.
we follow what GOD want us to follow
if we somehow may not follow the rules, we never disrespect the law of GOD
and u have no such absulate proof of "teachings of Jesus"
Bcoz u temper ur releigon
As u thought u r better thinker than GOD
can u people Create something what GOD has created
u have a very little brain compare to GOD as well as we also
we muslim never think we r a better thinker than a GOD.
we follow what GOD want us to follow
if we somehow may not follow the rules, we never disrespect the law of GOD
and u have no such absulate proof of "teachings of Jesus"
Bcoz u temper ur releigon
As u thought u r better thinker than GOD
can u people Create something what GOD has created
i_m_tipu
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hello HeiGou
i want to comment on some of ur post
there r a of lot explanation before
well seems that u never give up
Their Prophet came lot earlier than that time
and what does it matter that the entire Western Christian world had one edited Bible instead of real one??
well muslim say it is Allaah who promised to protect Qur'an
and will protect until the world exits
well best answer is muslim never think they r better thinker than GOD
agreed
well we r not crazy, may be someone else
we are all sons and daughters of God in the general sense:?
we are all creation of GOD
Well man can think anything (including stupid idea)
and GOD can do anything (excluding stupid idea)
Not understand ur point
i have no problem sir
peace
i want to comment on some of ur post
there r a of lot explanation before
well seems that u never give up
Their Prophet came lot earlier than that time
and what does it matter that the entire Western Christian world had one edited Bible instead of real one??
well muslim say it is Allaah who promised to protect Qur'an
and will protect until the world exits
well best answer is muslim never think they r better thinker than GOD
agreed
well we r not crazy, may be someone else
we are all sons and daughters of God in the general sense:?
we are all creation of GOD
Well man can think anything (including stupid idea)
and GOD can do anything (excluding stupid idea)
Not understand ur point
i have no problem sir
peace
No one has been able to explain, nor deny, that what I said is true. Why should I give up?
[quote
HeiGou said:
Their Prophet came lot earlier than that time
and what does it matter that the entire Western Christian world had one edited Bible instead of real one?? [/quote]
It matters because it is relevant to the previous poster's claims about the Bible. When do you think the Bible was modified? The canonisation of the Bible pre-dates Islam by about 200 years.
God must love poverty and illiteracy because He has given Muslims so much of it and since the West has rejected Church control, the West so little of it. Why do you think that is?
Are you sure it isn't blasphemy to say that God can't do some things? What sort of things do you think God cannot do?
Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
>deletions<
In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.
I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's Book: 'O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father.' Then Allah's Apostle said, 'Do not praise me excessively as Jesus, son of Marry was praised, but call me Allah's Slave and His Apostles.'
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
>deletions<
In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.
I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's Book: 'O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father.' Then Allah's Apostle said, 'Do not praise me excessively as Jesus, son of Marry was praised, but call me Allah's Slave and His Apostles.'
So my question is simple - at what point was the verse on stoning, which used to be part of the Quran according to how I read this, abrogated and by whom?
i_m_tipu
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See this….HeiGou said:
http://www.islamicboard.com/225278-post34.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/47842-post3.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/174248-post7.html
I seeHeiGou said:
HeiGou said:
Hahahahaha…
God must love good thing…….
Sorry for the disagreement
HeiGou said:
I m afraid u not understand the line properly also ask for mercy to Allaah
The line mean GOD never use to do stupid thing but it is human who create fake thing
HeiGou said:
will comment after verification InsAllaah
Shadow_of_White
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Jesus cannot be god, becuase thats totally inlogical, and God has limitless power, so al his power cannot be in Jesus!!!!!!,,I think we clearly stated all of these, and this conversation is going into circles, if we continue with replies that are the same point over and over.
take care
Kittygyal
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Jesus cannot be god, becuase thats totally inlogical, and God has limitless power, so al his power cannot be in Jesus!!!!!!,,I think we clearly stated all of these, and this conversation is going into circles, if we continue with replies that are the same point over and over.
take care
:thumbs_up that is so true we are just going in circles now :heated:
take care
Shadow_of_White
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the chrisitains who belive in relevation of the original bible dont belive Jesus was God. they are on the staight path too.
Shadow_of_White
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:sister:
take care