God does exist

[cool_jannah]

heiguo
and my other 'enlightened' athiest friends think that Hitler's death or whatever might have happened to him before his death, did justice to all the crimes that he commited, killing innocent people. Do you think he should be left alone like that? Only how many million people did he kill?
only cowards would think that they have escaped the accountability to their Lord. Hitler is just one example, there are thousands of other reasons to convince you that you will be ressurected back to life, after you die. Only if you used your head once in a while to ponder about it.
Everythin created will perish! Death was also created! Death will perish in the Afterlife!
Hieguo, please let me know what you have to say, if you believe that you won't be ressurected back to life?

 

[root]

Originally Posted by Hussein radi

when the big bang exploded it perfectly calculated how the univers would come about,

Not true

if there was one tiny miscalculation, then the univers will not be as it is today

Not true

and life will not exist.

Why not?

That means this big bang was accurent enough to design and make earth.

Design and make. Would you care to roughly explain how the earth was made?

And earth is at the best possible region on the entire universe,

Rubbish

not only for us and animals to survive in, but also to explore the universe.

How so

If god did not creat all this, then who did, do you honestly believe it is all merely chance?

Why do you need a creator

 

[HeiGou]

and my other 'enlightened' athiest friends think that Hitler's death or whatever might have happened to him before his death, did justice to all the crimes that he commited, killing innocent people. Do you think he should be left alone like that? Only how many million people did he kill?

I doubt that many atheists would accept that Hitler's death did justice for what he did. What do you mean "left alone"? Do you mean, do I think that he ought to be pursued in the next life and punished there? Well yes. But do I think it is likely that he would be punished in the next life? Now that is an interesting question. What I would like happen and what does happen are two very different issues. Whether or not I think that death is sufficient plays no part in determining whether or not punishment in the next life occurs.

But there is an Islamic-related question here - if before he died, after killing millions, Hitler had said "There is no God but God and Muhammed is His prophet", do you think he ought not be punished in this life or the next?

only cowards would think that they have escaped the accountability to their Lord.

Really? Why do you think that? Surely only cowards do not do evil because they fear the consequences in the next life?

Hieguo, please let me know what you have to say, if you believe that you won't be ressurected back to life?

Well I would like to believe that. But I see no evidence of it or even any good reason to think it will or does occur.

 

[cool_jannah]

Why do you need a creator

what a question. excellent thinking root.
yeeeeaaaa...why do you need a creator? :?
to have created something that exists perhaps.
last time i checked things don't come into existence by themselves.
somebody has to create things for them to exist.
that was really dumb root. what part of your body do you think from root?

 

[HeiGou]

How can you be absolutely sure that say a male nipple has no function whatsoever? Surely, it is only based on what scientific understanding that has been amassed up till now, whats to say later you find that the nipple does indeed have a function?

I am not absolutely sure. That is the great thing about science. But it appears to have no useful evolutionary or biological role. It may be that in the future it will happen that scientists will discover a use. But I wonder if that would be Islamic - as the main use I know of is erotic. Do you agree that Islam has nothing to say about the usefulness of the male nipple and that it does appear to be useless?

 

[HeiGou]

When you start questioning God, You've gone too far.

So is it acceptable to ask why God gave men nipples if you accept that God did give men nipples? If so.....

No I do not as I accept God for who He is and His attributes.

Well strictly speaking you accept Him for what you are told He is and what you are told are His attributes.

But that is a minor point.

 

[HeiGou]

and he can be a pain in th neckkay:
hav i judged correctly????

I think even my Mother might say the pain I give is located a little lower!

But that was very generous of you. Accuracy is another thing perhaps!

 

[cool_jannah]

I doubt that many atheists would accept that Hitler's death did justice for what he did. What do you mean "left alone"? Do you mean, do I think that he ought to be pursued in the next life and punished there? Well yes.

ok. so you do believe you will be brought back to life. or yoy think it's just that bad people?

But do I think it is likely that he would be punished in the next life? Now that is an interesting question. What I would like happen and what does happen are two very different issues. Whether or not I think that death is sufficient plays no part in determining whether or not punishment in the next life occurs.

totally irrevelant to the topic. i am not asking you if he will be punished or not. my point was that he will definitely be ressurected and be accountable for.

But there is an Islamic-related question here - if before he died, after killing millions, Hitler had said "There is no God but God and Muhammed is His prophet", do you think he ought not be punished in this life or the next?

If he says the Shahada, the fire of Jahannam will become Haram for him.
Remember all sins are forgiven by Allah, no matter how much they are except for the sin of associating partners with Allah. There is no forgiveness for that. A person like Hitler, having done atrocities and crimes unimaginable could be forgiven by Allah, if he took the Shahadah before his death.
It is upon Allah to decide if he will punish him or not. That's none of our business to worry about.

 

[HeiGou]

Actually, it is irrelevant to point out the Islamic perspective on the male nipple. The topic at hand is about whether God exists or not and if he does exist, then why has he created a nipple with no apparent usefulness.

I don't know. If scientists did discover a use for it I do not doubt that some one would trumpet it as one of the scientific miracles of the Quran! Besides if it was useful surely God would have pointed it out in some way - just as He said not to eat pork a long time before people discovered parasites.

Looking around me today I see a world filled with items that have been "invented" to make life more convenient for mankind. The reason I put invented in quotation marks is due to the fact that it is perhaps more reasonable to say that due to the discovery of certain principles, inventions such as the television, microwave ovens, keys and even the computer you are using to read this have come about.
So tell me why is it that these principles exist to be discovered? Why are complicated mathematical theorems so "perfect"? How do you explain that?

There does seem to be an underlying beauty to the universe that can be expressed mathematically. I do not know what that is an argument for. Perhaps among all the possible mathematic proofs the ones that so many mathematicians like are those that are beautiful and elegant? But there has to be some underlying principle to the Universe. Does it mean that expresses some Higher Power's design? I'd like to know why you think it does without falling into one or other of the obvious logical fallacies.

 

[HeiGou]

ok. so you do believe you will be brought back to life. or yoy think it's just that bad people?

Totally irrevelant to the topic. i am not asking you if he will be punished or not. my point was that he will definitely be ressurected and be accountable for.

Actually it was not because it was attached to the first answer. I would like to think many things. That does not make them true. "Ought" and "Is" are two separate issues.

If he says the Shahada, the fire of Jahannam will become Haram for him.
Remember all sins are forgiven by Allah, no matter how much they are except for the sin of associating partners with Allah. There is no forgiveness for that. A person like Hitler, having done atrocities and crimes unimaginable could be forgiven by Allah, if he took the Shahadah before his death.
It is upon Allah to decide if he will punish him or not. That's none of our business to worry about.

Yes. This does seem an odd perspective. So if my Grandmother does what she grew up doing and what all the women in her family have done since as long as records have existed, even if she does it in ignorance of Islamic law, she will burn in Hell. But someone who murders millions will be forgiven. It complicates issues because whenever we talk about actions forbidden in Islam we have to remember that whatever we are talking about it is not such a great sin as burning incense!

 

[cool_jannah]

I don't know. If scientists did discover a use for it I do not doubt that some one would trumpet it as one of the scientific miracles of the Quran! Besides if it was useful surely God would have pointed it out in some way - just as He said not to eat pork a long time before people discovered parasites.

Just like any other orientalist approach. Why do you care so much about the nipples of men when you don't understand the wisdom and purpose of your own creation. Have you ever appriciated the gifts of your intellect, health, eyesight, hands, tongue, your wealth, family and so on?
Heiguo, why do you think you are prevelaged to hava all these blessings(assumingly) while certain people are not? are you worth more of it than a physically challenged people? why do you think there is injustice? you know why? because you WILL be ressurected back and be accountable for whatever blessings you had. Don't go around hunting for trivial matters where you have no understanding about that particular topic, im refffering to the nipple thing you brought up. you don't posses, neither do we, all the wisdom in the world. Allah knows the best.

 

[HeiGou]

Just like any other orientalist approach.

I love how many Muslims have taken the traditional "All Jews, Christians and pagans are liars so we don't need to listen to them" approach and modified it to an "All Orientalists are liars so we don't need to listen to them" approach.

Why do you think this attempt at name-calling is going to get you anywhere?

Why do you care so much about the nipples of men when you don't understand the wisdom and purpose of your own creation. Have you ever appriciated the gifts of your intellect, health, eyesight, hands, tongue, your wealth, family and so on?

Because I have no special insight into the Wisdom and Purpose of God, but Science provides a powerful tool for understanding the Universe, which in so far as it reflects God's mind and intentions, is useful for understanding Bigger Questions.

I do appreciate all those gifts from time to time. Why do you think that they are the gift of God, or especially your God?

why do you think you are prevelaged to hava all these blessings(assumingly) while certain people are not? are you worth more of it than a physically challenged people?

I do not know. It is hard for me to accept that unjust outcomes prove God so much as suggest otherwise. Why do you think it does?

why do you think there is injustice? you know why? because you WILL be ressurected back and be accountable for whatever blessings you had.

Surely that is not why there is injustice. Surely God did not create injustice just so that He could fix it later - why not fix it now? Rather it is obvious that this must be the case if God is (a) responsible for the world as it is and yet still (b) Merciful and Just?

Don't go around hunting for trivial matters where you have no understanding about that particular topic, im refffering to the nipple thing you brought up. you don't posses, neither do we, all the wisdom in the world. Allah knows the best.

And yet my approach leads to people flying around the world and doctors curing cancer and abolishing smallpox. What does your approach lead to?

 

[cool_jannah]

Yes. This does seem an odd perspective. So if my Grandmother does what she grew up doing and what all the women in her family have done since as long as records have existed, even if she does it in ignorance of Islamic law, she will burn in Hell. But someone who murders millions will be forgiven. It complicates issues because whenever we talk about actions forbidden in Islam we have to remember that whatever we are talking about it is not such a great sin as burning incense!

Excellent point. People who are in ignorance and die in ignorance, is because this is what they have chosen for themselves. Your grandmother had all her life to struggle and think about here existence. She was not here to live forever, and im sure she knew that. You will leave too one day. This is what your beautiful mind is for. Not to create rockets and send them into sapce.
something very trivial if you really think about it.
We were all the inhabitants of Jannah before we were brought to life in this world. People have chosen to obey Shaitaan and make him as their friend. Allah has warned us throught the history of human existence, through His books, His Noble Messengers, His signs about the people who chose the path of Shaitaan...anybody that follows shaitan will be put in the Hell fire along with Shaitan himself.

And exactly this is the Mercy of Allah, Subhanahu wa Ta'laa that He will forgive no matter if you killed a million people or a billion people. One sincere repentance is enough to attain salvation. SubhanAllah this is called true Mercy. Not fables of son's of God being sacrificed for the sake of the sins of entire humanity. No one needs to sacrifice for others. Every soul carries it's own burden. Only if you understood.

 

[HeiGou]

People who are in ignorance and die in ignorance, is because this is what they have chosen for themselves. Your grandmother had all her life to struggle and think about here existence. She was not here to live forever, and im sure she knew that. You will leave too one day. This is what your beautiful mind is for. Not to create rockets and send them into sapce.

And yet if she was ignorant she would not know what questions to ask. I can honestly say I choose my fate knowing what Islam says and teaches, but she, of course, cannot. What my beautiful mind is for is another question. More interesting to me is how I use it. Simply saying that I must not think about male nipples (not that, I hasten to assure people, I spend a lot of time thinking about male nipples) is the sort of answer that leads to a country like Pakistan and not a country like, say, Japan. Because of people like me 1.6 billion Muslims exist in the world today. If not for people like me it might be 16 million. Does that count for nothing?

And exactly this is the Mercy of Allah, Subhanahu wa Ta'laa that He will forgive no matter if you killed a million people or a billion people. One sincere repentance is enough to attain salvation. SubhanAllah this is called true Mercy. Not fables of son's of God being sacrificed for the sake of the sins of entire humanity. No one needs to sacrifice for others. Every soul carries it's own burden. Only if you understood.

This is an odd concept of mercy though. You murder millions, even billions, and as long as you think you are trying to be a good Muslim you will be forgiven. I see why Osama Bin Laden might think that whatever he did was a good thing - after all if he is right he will be rewarded, if he is wrong God will know what he intended and forgive him.

But if you dare to tie a prayer cloth, that won't be forgiven. It still seems odd to me in the same way that Islamic law treats some consentual sex between adults as a worse crime than murder.

 

[Hussein radi]

Root???!?!?! have u not seen the Video? It was my proof. Here is the video
http://www.harunyahya.com/download/download.php?id=18917

I have brought my proof Root. Please bring yours.

 

[Hussein radi]

Root, i have a question for you. It has been proven that the universe expands and it was created out of nothingness with a single point, as the video explains. Tell me doesnt the expansion of the universe convince you that god created the universe. If god didnt creat it, did nothingness created it? did nothingness created life, did it created me? did it created billions of stars? did it created the seven layers of earth that made life possible, I dont think so.

 

[HeiGou]

Root, i have a question for you. It has been proven that the universe expands and it was created out of nothingness with a single point, as the video explains. Tell me doesnt the expansion of the universe convince you that god created the universe. If god didnt creat it, did nothingness created it? did nothingness created life, did it created me? did it created billions of stars? did it created the seven layers of earth that made life possible, I dont think so.

Well I am not Root, but I can play him on TV! It has been proven by Western scientists that the Universe began with a singularity - an infinitely small point which contained all the mass and all the time in existence at that point. Yes. And no, the expansion of the Universe in the Big Bang does not prove the existence of God to me. Why should it to you? If God did create it, who created God? Nothingness? If nothing created God, why do you need some one to create the Universe? Which is easier - creating the Universe or creating God? Life arose through a physical process which has no evidence for divine intervention. And evolution created you. And that same Big Bang created the stars we see and those that we do not. Why do you not think so?

 

[cool_jannah]

If God did create it, who created God? Nothingness? If nothing created God, why do you need some one to create the Universe? Which is easier - creating the Universe or creating God? Life arose through a physical process which has no evidence for divine intervention. And evolution created you. And that same Big Bang created the stars we see and those that we do not. Why do you not think so?

Hilarious.
These questions bothered me when I was 11 years old. I took me approximately 3 years to understand all this. You are so immature Heigou. Honestly, these are straight forward concepts you are confusing with.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Hilarious.
These questions bothered me when I was 11 years old. I took me approximately 3 years to understand all this. You are so immature Heigou. Honestly, these are straight forward concepts you are confusing with.

ye same here, it all started making sence when i was old enuff to think

 

[HeiGou]

These questions bothered me when I was 11 years old. I took me approximately 3 years to understand all this. You are so immature Heigou. Honestly, these are straight forward concepts you are confusing with.

Explain it to me then.