Atheists Are A Proof of God

[BilalKid]

:shade:

eace:

 

[goodwill]

Makes me think of G. K. Chesterton's remark: “If there were not God, there would be no atheists.”

 

[BilalKid]

Makes me think of G. K. Chesterton's remark: “If there were not God, there would be no atheists.”

true!! :shade:

gr8 quote

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

If atheists are a proof that God exists, then people who don't believe in unicorns are proof that unicorns exist, people who don't believe in fairies are proof that fairies exist, and people who don't believe in Thor, Zeus and Odin are proof that they all exist too. This kind of thinking is so obviously nonsensical that it hardly deserves a response.

What is really beyond the pale, though, is the association of a thinker like Wittgenstein with this rubbish. His name has been inserted at the beginning of the video, perhaps to convince people who don't know any better that the speaker has some kind of intellectual credibility. Wittgenstein certainly spoke up until his final day of life; he was visited by four of his former students who answered his request that they pray for him. The speaker in the video has probably half-remembered Wittgenstein's famous quote from the end of the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus: "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence." It's advice that the speaker himself would do well to follow.

Peace

 

[Pygoscelis]

I agree with the video that a big part of the problem is failures of communication. And I hold it up as evidence against an all powerful God that wants to be known and understood by all. Such a God would not need to resort to the imperfections of human language in text or by prophet. Such a God could merely make us know him. That there are multiple religions, multiple understandings within each religion, and that people fight over that, shows me that any God that exists is either not all powerful or does not intend to be perfectly understood by all.

 

[Serinity]

If atheists are a proof that God exists, then people who don't believe in unicorns are proof that unicorns exist, people who don't believe in fairies are proof that fairies exist, and people who . on't believe in Thor, Zeus and Odin are proof that they all exist too. This kind of thinking is so obviously nonsensical that it hardly deserves a response.

No, that is not true. Although I do get why you think so.

But it is fallacious. you take a thing contingent on the imagination of mankind and take it as evidence to 'disprove' this.. it is like saying "if people denying the sun exists, is proof of the sun existing, it is like saying that the fact that people rejecting the existence of fairies, or unicorns (or whatever from the imagination of mankind) is proof that they exist"

I ask you: What is YOUR definition of God?

I'm convinced that god exists because of the creation, and besides the logical arguments, how it was created, convinces me even more that it is God that created it. Someone intelligent

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

No, that is not true. Although I do get why you think so.

But it is fallacious. you take a thing contingent on the imagination of mankind and take it as evidence to 'disprove' this.. it is like saying "if people denying the sun exists, is proof of the sun existing, it is like saying that the fact that people rejecting the existence of fairies, or unicorns (or whatever from the imagination of mankind) is proof that they exist"

This is very unclear. Would you like to have another go at explaining it? Remember that, from my point of view, all of the entities I mentioned are imaginary.

I ask you: What is YOUR definition of God?

When I talk about God, I use the same definition as you'll find in a dictionary:

God
ɡɒd/
noun

(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

I'm convinced that god exists because of the creation, and besides the logical arguments, how it was created, convinces me even more that it is God that created it. Someone intelligent

Are there some words missing here?

Peace

 

[ardianto]

But it is fallacious. you take a thing contingent on the imagination of mankind and take it as evidence to 'disprove' this.. it is like saying "if people denying the sun exists, is proof of the sun existing, it is like saying that the fact that people rejecting the existence of fairies, or unicorns (or whatever from the imagination of mankind) is proof that they exist"

I believe in God. But, the atheists disbelief in God, indeed, cannot be a proof that God does exist. Czgibson has shown good point for it, through analogy of people who don't believe that unicorn does exist.

No, no, I do not defend atheist. But, it's better if we try to understand their way of thinking. So we can communicate with them better.

 

[Serinity]

I believe in God. But, the atheists disbelief in God, indeed, cannot be a proof that God does exist. Czgibson has shown good point for it, through analogy of people who don't believe that unicorn does exist.

No, no, I do not defend atheist. But, it's better if we try to understand their way of thinking. So we can communicate with them better.

I know, but it is fallacious. I get the point, but the analogy is fallacious, if you reverse it. They confuse fantasy with reality, mix reality with fantasies, confusing themselves further.

They don't realise, whatever comes from us, of imaginations and fansies, is false. And even if they did, they confuse reality with imagination, mixing reasonable conculsions with imaginations and fantasiies. then coming up with assumptions out of fantasies. Unicorns don't exist cause they arose from the imagination of mankind. A cat with wings and a beautiful sword, they don't exist! why? They are formed from the premise of fantasies and imagination.

Though, I do see that there won't be any fruitful talks with the mindset presented in the video.

 

[Pygoscelis]

You can't prove Unicorns exist by pointing at people who don't believe in unicorns, you can't prove the moon exists by pointing at people who don't believe in the moon, and you can't prove God exists by pointing at people that don't believe in God. The object being referred to actually existing or not doesn't matter insofar as the validity of the argument goes. It could exist or it could not, but you can't prove it exists by pointing at people who disbelieve.

 

[M.I.A.]

Well, maybe they did at some point.. Although the fossel record may prove otherwise.

...never mind we still have the Narwhale.


Anyway Allah swt is free of association..

 

[ardianto]

They don't realise, whatever comes from us, of imaginations and fansies, is false. And even if they did, they confuse reality with imagination, mixing reasonable conculsions with imaginations and fantasiies.

This is what atheists say about religious people. They regard the religious people belief in God is just a fantasy that come from human mind, which religious people mix imagination and reality through believing that nature is sign of God existence.

Brother, everyone is not same. So you cannot use your point of view if you want to understand other people point of view. But you must out of the box and stand on the neutral side.

 

[Serinity]

You can't prove Unicorns exist by pointing at people who don't believe in unicorns, you can't prove the moon exists by pointing at people who don't believe in the moon, and you can't prove God exists by pointing at people that don't believe in God. The object being referred to actually existing or not doesn't matter insofar as the validity of the argument goes. It could exist or it could not, but you can't prove it exists by pointing at people who disbelieve.

In other words, the existence of something is not contingent on whether people believe in it or not? I mean a floating rock, afaik, doesn't exist, whether people believe that or not, doesn't matter.

 

[Serinity]

This is what atheists say about religious people. They regard the religious people belief in God is just a fantasy that come from human mind, which religious people mix imagination and reality through believing that nature is sign of God existence.

Brother, everyone is not same. So you cannot use your point of view if you want to understand other people point of view. But you must out of the box and stand on the neutral side.

I get it, and I get why they are confused. But I can't remember what it was called lol.

 

[Serinity]

What is really beyond the pale, though, is the association of a thinker like Wittgenstein with this rubbish. His name has been inserted at the beginning of the video, perhaps to convince people who don't know any better that the speaker has some kind of intellectual credibility. Wittgenstein certainly spoke up until his final day of life; he was visited by four of his former students who answered his request that they pray for him. The speaker in the video has probably half-remembered Wittgenstein's famous quote from the end of the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus: "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence." It's advice that the speaker himself would do well to follow.

I disagree with Wittgenstein's quote. Being silent about something where you're gambling your eternity, is unwise. Just as being silent about a problem in society, tension will build.

 

[ardianto]

You can't prove Unicorns exist by pointing at people who don't believe in unicorns, you can't prove the moon exists by pointing at people who don't believe in the moon, and you can't prove God exists by pointing at people that don't believe in God. The object being referred to actually existing or not doesn't matter insofar as the validity of the argument goes. It could exist or it could not, but you can't prove it exists by pointing at people who disbelieve.

If you are sure that unicorn doesn't exist, you would say "Ah, unicorn is just a myth!". However, if you began to feel a doubt in your heart, "Unicorn probably exist". Then you would start a journey to search for unicorn.

 

[Serinity]

If you are sure that unicorn doesn't exist, you would say "Ah, unicorn is just a myth!". However, if you began to feel a doubt in your heart, "Unicorn probably exist". Then you would start a journey to search for unicorn.

None would doubt that unicorns don't exist, why? Cause they were born from the imagination of mankind/started there, by the will of Allah, created, decreedd etc. Qadr, ya know.

As for God existing, God is whom is referred to as having created this whole universe. So to say God arose from imagination, is fallacious, and unintelligent. Why? Cause God is the one who is referred to as the creator. Whether one believes in God or not, is not contingent on God's existence, because it is not imaginary.

It is like saying oxygen is imaginary, yes, we can't see oxygen but we have evidence proof for its existence.

We don't know how God looks like, etc.

I mean, I believe in Allah, first because of the evidence in creation, that this could only come from Allah, and then there is the Quran, which is the greatest proof. Which commands you to think.

Anyways, yeh...... I understand why atheists are confused, but it is fallacious.

 

[ardianto]

None would doubt that unicorns don't exist, why? Cause they were born from the imagination of mankind/started there, by the will ......

Oh no, you don't realize the hidden message behind my words.

I was not literally talking about unicorn. That's just analogy to describe the searching for God. If someone sure that God does not exist, he indeed would never try to find God. But if he began to feel doubt in his heart, and began to wonder "Does God exist?", then he would try to search for God.

 

[Serinity]

Oh no, you don't realize the hidden message behind my words.

I was not literally talking about unicorn. That's just analogy to describe the searching for God. If someone sure that God does not exist, he indeed would never try to find God. But if he began to feel doubt in his heart, and began to wonder "Does God exist?", then he would try to search for God.

Well, there is proof of God's existence everywhere around us, there is proof of deliberate, intelligent design, that could only be from God.

If the Earth was a bit away from the sun, it'd be too cold, a little closer, too hot. If it wasn't for the angular position of earth, there would be no seasons, there'd be instability. If it wasn't for the moon, there wouldn't be tides in the water.

An unconscious thing could create this? I Think not.

 

[Pygoscelis]

In other words, the existence of something is not contingent on whether people believe in it or not? I mean a floating rock, afaik, doesn't exist, whether people believe that or not, doesn't matter.

Correct. And that is all czgibson was saying. Atheists, people who do not believe in God, are not evidence that God exists, anymore than you, a person that doesn't believe in floating rocks, are evidence that floating rocks exist.

Well, there is proof of God's existence everywhere around us, there is proof of deliberate, intelligent design, that could only be from God.

I respectfully disagree, and you have read why in the previous thread.

If the Earth was a bit away from the sun, it'd be too cold, a little closer, too hot. If it wasn't for the angular position of earth, there would be no seasons, there'd be instability. If it wasn't for the moon, there wouldn't be tides in the water.

True, and life on earth, if there was any, would look completely different then. Perhaps there would be no life on earth, but life on another planet that had suitable conditions for it. Maybe there is such life on other planets. The universe is a very big place, and such could be out there without us ever finding it or knowing it is there.