Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

[oggy29]

I came to this discussion site to try nourish some of the spiritual conflict I'm going through at the moment. I was raised catholic , was religious in the sense that I went the mass, took part in all the rituals and rites ( baptism , communion, confirmation etc ) but always felt a disconnect from it.

Recently a close member of my family converted to Islam which inspired me to reflect on my own spiritual path. Along the way , Islam came into the fold. Im attracted to the purity of Islam but I do have some reservations that I hope to get addressed in this forum - hopefully some of you can shed some light ( and please - no heat !) I would prefer to put the questions in bullet point and would appreciate if they could be answered in the same manner for clarity purposes . I will admit , I am not going to reference the Koran or the Sunnah as I'm not well versed , I dont mind people quoting so long as they can give me a laymans answer to follow . A very warm thank you to all in advance !


Questions :

1) Why do Muslims follow the Sunnah when they were written from what Ive read , over a century after the death of Muhammad? Is this not similar to the
bible with the Gospel and so pretty much dilutes the purity of Islam itself by relying on secondary sources?

2) Why cant a Muslim love non-Muslims in a platonic manner ? IE have close friends that are non-muslims ?

3) why doesn't Allah love sinners the same as Jesus ? Does this mean that as a Muslim , I couldnt love my family and freind's in the same manner? Does this mean that I couldnt have compassion for a murderer regardless of his crime ?

4) A few remedial questions - why are their exclamation marks in the Koran ? How do muslims read the Koran? From what ive read - it incites a lot of anxiety in me !

5) And probably quite a large question - does the Koran support individualism in society ?


I have so many more questions but lets start with this and see what kind of a response happens.


Many thanks to you all

 

[oggy29]

EDIT - Its not necessary for someone to answer all questions with one post - but if you feel that you have a good answer for one of the questions please feel free to answer without feeling obliged to answer them all . :shade:

 

[azc]

Welcome to the forum.

InshaAllah all your Qs will be answered one by one

 

[eesa the kiwi]

1. The Quran was supplemented with the sunnah. While similar in style to what the Christians claim is the gospel there is one huge difference. That is the science of hadith. Islamic scholars have compiled biographies of thousands of narrators sifting through them to find who was reliable who had a weak memory etc etc. This science is so precise and had such strict criteria that if a hadith is sahih you can guarantee it is true. If you applied the same standards to today you would not be able to trust a word you hear from the media because not only was memory etc etc taken into consideration but character was too. So if a person was known to consume alcohol or do other sins his narrations were considered unreliable . So what about the corrupt individuals we have reading the news today
In a nutshell the Quran has general commands whereas you find the specifics in hadith. For example we are commanded to perform 5 daily prayers in Quran whereas we find the details like what dua to make in each posture etc etc
There is a group that reject hadith yet claim to be Muslim but some scholars say they have left the fold of Islam while the rest declare them devient so beware of them
2 I don't have enough knowledge to comment on this
3 again don't have enough knowledge but I do know of one category of people whom Allah loves. Allah loves those who repent to him So make sure you are of this category rather than the former
4 I don't know much about the exclamation marks. Sorry I couldn't be of more help
5 again Allahu alim. There are resident scholars on Islamic board so inshaallah one of them can help
Welcome to the forum btw

 

[Misbah0411]

Though we as Muslims don't believe in the complete authenticity of the Gospel of Barnabas, there are some words of widsom on the topic of friends that I think has some wisdom behind it. I will quote the passage In sha Allah:

The disciples asked Jesus, "Master, what will we do if when we are worshiping a friend comes to speak to us?" Jesus replied, "let him wait until you finish the worship." Said Bartholomew, "even if he is offended and goes his way he sees that we do not speak with him?" Jesus responded, "if he is offended to believe me, he will not be your friend nor a believer but rather an unbeliever and a companion of Satan. Believe me, if he is offended when you make him wait, he is a good servant of evil-because it is the devils goal that God is rejected for the sake of man. In God's name in every good action whoever fears God should separate himself from the works of the world, so as never to corrupt the good work. This is because the devil has as his objective only the hindrance of all that is good."
Jesus said, "yet the true friend is a rare thing that is not easily found but is easily lost. This is because the friend will never suffer contradiction against the one whom he supremely loves. Beware, be cautious, and never choose as friend a person who does not love Him whom you love. Do you know what friend means? Friend means nothing but physician of the soul. Thus, just at it is rare to find a good physician who knows the sickness and understands how to administer the medicine, so to are friends rare who know the faults and understand how to guide to good. However, there is a wickedness here. It is the fact that there are many who have friends ignore the faults of their friend others excuse them. Still others defend them under earthly justification; and, even worse, there are friends who aid and abet their friends to err, whose consequence is equal to their depravity. Beware that you never take such people as friends, because of the fact that in truth they are enemies and destroyers of the soul. Let your friend be such that just as he wills to correct you so he may receive correction and just as he wills that you should leave all that is for the love of God, even so again, he may be content that you also abandon him for the service of God. Yet actually, if a man does not know how to love God, how can he know how to love himself ? What's more, how would he know how to love others not knowing how to love himself? Surely this is impossible. Therefore, when you choose anyone as a friend be sure that you first consider not his fine lineage, not his fine family, not his fine house-not his fine clothing, person, nor even his words-because you will readily be deceived. Instead, see how he fears God, despises earthly things, loves the doing of good, and above all, hates his own flesh-in so through this understanding you will easily find the true friend. If he above all fears God and despises the vanities of the world-if he is always occupied in good works in hates his own body as a cruel enemy then this is the real friend who can be relied upon. Nor yet will you love such a friend in such a manner that your love stay in him, because so will you be in idolater. Yet, love him as a gift given to you by God, because so will God grace him with great favor. Truly, whoever has found a true friend has found one of the pleasures of paradise; not at all, in fact, this is the key of paradise." Thaddeus answered, "even so, if perhaps a man has a friend who is not like you, O master-what should he do? Should he abandon him?" Jesus answered, "he should do as the seamen does with the ship, who sails it so long as he perceives it is profitable, but when he realizes it is a loss, abandons it. So will you do with your friend that is worse than you: in those things where he is an offense to you leave him-if you would not be left of the mercy of God."

 

[azc]

*: Islam injuncts us to be submissive and obedient slave to the commandments of Allah :swt: by following the footsteps (sunnah) of our prophet :saw:

the companions would follow Islam in accordance with the sunnah of RasulAllah :saw:

Plz see hadith section
http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/

*: Islam teaches us to keep cordial relationship with non Muslims as well so that they might be attracted to islam


*:Islam doesn't stop a Muslim to love and respect his parents and brothers/sisters if they are non Muslims but he shouldn't follow them in deviation, moreover, he should keep on giving dawah to them and praying for their hidayah.

*: All human beings are Allah's creation and Allah swt loves his creation ,however, he loves his obedient slaves than disobedient ones.

*: Contact any local scholar

*: plz clarify

 

[oggy29]

Thank you for having me !

 

[oggy29]

1. The Quran was supplemented with the sunnah. While similar in style to what the Christians claim is the gospel there is one huge difference. That is the science of hadith. Islamic scholars have compiled biographies of thousands of narrators sifting through them to find who was reliable who had a weak memory etc etc. This science is so precise and had such strict criteria that if a hadith is sahih you can guarantee it is true. If you applied the same standards to today you would not be able to trust a word you hear from the media because not only was memory etc etc taken into consideration but character was too. So if a person was known to consume alcohol or do other sins his narrations were considered unreliable . So what about the corrupt individuals we have reading the news today
In a nutshell the Quran has general commands whereas you find the specifics in hadith. For example we are commanded to perform 5 daily prayers in Quran whereas we find the details like what dua to make in each posture etc etc
There is a group that reject hadith yet claim to be Muslim but some scholars say they have left the fold of Islam while the rest declare them devient so beware of them
2 I don't have enough knowledge to comment on this
3 again don't have enough knowledge but I do know of one category of people whom Allah loves. Allah loves those who repent to him So make sure you are of this category rather than the former
4 I don't know much about the exclamation marks. Sorry I couldn't be of more help
5 again Allahu alim. There are resident scholars on Islamic board so inshaallah one of them can help
Welcome to the forum btw

Thank you for the detailed response and taking the time to write it . I was wondering , I am a bit fanatical when it comes to origins and sourcing something with my own eyes - Do you know where I could find this method of Hadith accreditation and read up on it ? Many thanks

 

[oggy29]

Though we as Muslims don't believe in the complete authenticity of the Gospel of Barnabas, there are some words of widsom on the topic of friends that I think has some wisdom behind it. I will quote the passage In sha Allah:
"

I actually wasn't aware of this passage -
and it in fact speaks some sense to what a definition of a friend is , someone who nourishes personal ( or in this case ) spiritual growth - I suppose what I am struggling with is the difference culturally if for example I was to become a Muslim - I would have a difficulty in maintaining currents freind's due to the lifestyle change, and creating others from a different culture - In fact , I'm not sure I want to lose my cultural background ( i'm Irish and moved to Toronto a few months back )

 

[M.I.A.]

I wrote you a post but it was patronising as hell..

Half the time asking for help and the other half wondering why they ever did..

First world problems.. At least someone bothered to leave there comfort zone..

Welcome to first hand comparative religion.. I'm sure you will be able to answer your own questions in due time..

For all the knowledge you seek and attain you will know that your actions have consequence..

It is very much real,

Probably.

Your actions gaining value would be both a curse and a blessing..

Or a test in the least.

 

[oggy29]

Not so much Patronizing ... I experienced it as more cynical in fact . And not necessarily directed at myself personally but an unknown "other" . I found myself reading it a few times - I dont know why. But it was somewhat poetic in its fragmentation , so I suppose thank you - I think ?

 

[oggy29]

I wrote you a post but it was patronising as hell..

Half the time asking for help and the other half wondering why they ever did..

First world problems.. At least someone bothered to leave there comfort zone..

Welcome to first hand comparative religion.. I'm sure you will be able to answer your own questions in due time..

For all the knowledge you seek and attain you will know that your actions have consequence..

It is very much real,

Probably.

Your actions gaining value would be both a curse and a blessing..

Or a test in the least.

Not so much Patronizing ... I experienced it as more cynical in fact . And not necessarily directed at myself personally but an unknown "other" . I found myself reading it a few times - I dont know why. But it was somewhat poetic in its fragmentation , so I suppose thank you - I think ?

 

[M.I.A.]

Cynical, as oppose to..

Hopeful
Trusting
Optimistic
Naive

..I am in part still all those things! Most people are, right?

Maybe that goes a long way towards answering the thread title at least.

Although comparison of religious morality, manners and common sense..

With those innate qualities of ours brings us to.. Thought and intent.

 

[oggy29]

Ok - I think I get where you're coming from . And where does experience , emotion and the "felt sense" come into the fold ?

 

[*charisma*]

1) Why do Muslims follow the Sunnah when they were written from what Ive read , over a century after the death of Muhammad? Is this not similar to the
bible with the Gospel and so pretty much dilutes the purity of Islam itself by relying on secondary sources?

There is an extensive thread about Sunnah here, feel free to go through it at your leisure http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/1063-article-status-sunnah-islam.html

2) Why cant a Muslim love non-Muslims in a platonic manner ? IE have close friends that are non-muslims ?

Who said you can't? If you're referring to the verse in the Quran which says that Muslims can't take nonMuslims as friends/protectors, then there's more to it than that. There's no problem with caring about a nonMuslim, but we just have to be wary because sometimes our lifestyles are different and if they aren't accepting to that or are bad influences, then we have to keep our distance. In my experience, I've never had a problem and my nonMuslim friends are very understanding and kind. Many of them are even outspoken about the bad treatment of Muslims these days and the negative stereotypes, and I definitely appreciate them for that.

3) why doesn't Allah love sinners the same as Jesus ? Does this mean that as a Muslim , I couldnt love my family and freind's in the same manner? Does this mean that I couldnt have compassion for a murderer regardless of his crime ?

There is a verse in the Quran which states that Allah is closer to us than our jugular vein. This means that he is closer to us than we can ever imagine, closer to us than a mother and her baby. No matter what the sin is, as long as we are alive, we have a chance to repent and turn to Allah. He will forgive us even if our sins are many and we feel undeserving.

Being a Muslim doesn't mean you become cold-hearted against everyone who is not a Muslim or who is a sinner. We are ALL sinners. We have to have compassion, we should empathize. We should be merciful and forgiving. Does that mean it's easy? no of course not. In the case where you are wronged, you always have the choice, but it's always better to forgive. And Allah is the MOST Just, that means whenever you are wronged or someone else is wronged, justice will be given one way or the other be it in this world, or the hereafter.

4) A few remedial questions - why are their exclamation marks in the Koran ? How do muslims read the Koran? From what ive read - it incites a lot of anxiety in me !

Do you mean in the translation? I just think it's just used as an emphasis by whoever translated, because in the Arabic there's no punctuations like that. We recite the Quran in Arabic, (and those who have trouble reciting it get double the rewards )..there's also transliterated versions to help with pronunciation for those that can't read Arabic. Also there's versions of the Quran with interpretations, or tafsir, which help you understand the quran more fully. There are also qurans online with the translation, transliteration, and audio for each verse. And lastly, for just listening, you can always find audio on youtube. My favorite chapter to listen to is Yasin by Efasy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-W_NfyAP3Q

For the Quran try this: http://www.islamicity.org/quransearch/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
and http://quran.com/


Please feel free to ask any other questions, and don't feel weird or bad about asking about anything you don't fully understand! Islam encourages inquisitive minds because we shouldn't be following our faith blindly

 

[oggy29]

Cynical, as oppose to..

Hopeful
Trusting
Optimistic
Naive

..I am in part still all those things! Most people are, right?

Maybe that goes a long way towards answering the thread title at least.

Although comparison of religious morality, manners and common sense..

With those innate qualities of ours brings us to.. Thought and intent.

Ok - I think I get where you're coming from . And where does experience , emotion and the "felt sense" come into the fold ?

 

[*charisma*]

Oh and I'm sorry but I didn't quite understand your last question, can you reiterate what you mean by individualism in society?

 

[M.I.A.]

Ok - I think I get where you're coming from . And where does experience , emotion and the "felt sense" come into the fold ?

..you being cynical again?

No but seriously, I get schooled by everybody.


Wayne Rooney was immense when he was raw.

Now please, if you will:

There is an extensive thread about Sunnah here, feel free to go through it at your leisure http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/1063-article-status-sunnah-islam.html



Who said you can't? If you're referring to the verse in the Quran which says that Muslims can't take nonMuslims as friends/protectors, then there's more to it than that. There's no problem with caring about a nonMuslim, but we just have to be wary because sometimes our lifestyles are different and if they aren't accepting to that or are bad influences, then we have to keep our distance. In my experience, I've never had a problem and my nonMuslim friends are very understanding and kind. Many of them are even outspoken about the bad treatment of Muslims these days and the negative stereotypes, and I definitely appreciate them for that.



There is a verse in the Quran which states that Allah is closer to us than our jugular vein. This means that he is closer to us than we can ever imagine, closer to us than a mother and her baby. No matter what the sin is, as long as we are alive, we have a chance to repent and turn to Allah. He will forgive us even if our sins are many and we feel undeserving.

Being a Muslim doesn't mean you become cold-hearted against everyone who is not a Muslim or who is a sinner. We are ALL sinners. We have to have compassion, we should empathize. We should be merciful and forgiving. Does that mean it's easy? no of course not. In the case where you are wronged, you always have the choice, but it's always better to forgive. And Allah is the MOST Just, that means whenever you are wronged or someone else is wronged, justice will be given one way or the other be it in this world, or the hereafter.




Do you mean in the translation? I just think it's just used as an emphasis by whoever translated, because in the Arabic there's no punctuations like that. We recite the Quran in Arabic, (and those who have trouble reciting it get double the rewards )..there's also transliterated versions to help with pronunciation for those that can't read Arabic. Also there's versions of the Quran with interpretations, or tafsir, which help you understand the quran more fully. There are also qurans online with the translation, transliteration, and audio for each verse. And lastly, for just listening, you can always find audio on youtube. My favorite chapter to listen to is Yasin by Efasy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-W_NfyAP3Q

For the Quran try this: http://www.islamicity.org/quransearch/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
and http://quran.com/


Please feel free to ask any other questions, and don't feel weird or bad about asking about anything you don't fully understand! Islam encourages inquisitive minds because we shouldn't be following our faith blindly

 

[oggy29]

Oh and I'm sorry but I didn't quite understand your last question, can you reiterate what you mean by individualism in society?

thank you for the very detailed reply - Pretty much addressed a lot of things I was looking for clarity about - and I really appreciate your openness to further questions ! . I suppose what I was referring to around the individualism was in relation to my difficulty with how literal I experience Islam . I'm a bit of a perfectionist , and I feel that it would be a great difficulty for me to commit to something unless it was perfect. Also , with the literal aspect of things , where does it leave choice ? And not just choice for what is good or bad - but I suppose , choice in following healthy desire . . . hopefully this opens it up a bit ....

 

[Misbah0411]

I actually wasn't aware of this passage -
and it in fact speaks some sense to what a definition of a friend is , someone who nourishes personal ( or in this case ) spiritual growth - I suppose what I am struggling with is the difference culturally if for example I was to become a Muslim - I would have a difficulty in maintaining currents freind's due to the lifestyle change, and creating others from a different culture - In fact , I'm not sure I want to lose my cultural background ( i'm Irish and moved to Toronto a few months back )

I am an American revert of Italian/Irish descent. Let me say this to you from experience. When I became a Muslim, I went through major adversity with friends and family. I was raised by an atheist father, my brothers were born-again Christian and my friends were of different beliefs and not exactly examples of morality. I thought I could appease them and practiced my deen. I thought I could compromise. It was a mistake. My iman (faith) suffered because of it. I learned the hard way what my Creator was telling me in the Quran:

"O you who believe! If yo obey those who disbelieve, they will send you back on your heels and will turn you away from faith as losers." (3:149)

"Never will the Jews and Christians be pleased with you until you follow their religion. Say: 'Verily the Guidance of Allah is the only Guidance.' (2:120)

"Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have recieved on knowledge, then indeed you will be one of the wrong-doers." (2:145)

"O you who believe! Take not as your bitanah (friends, protectors, helpers, friends) those outside your religion. Since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you." (3:118)

Culturally you can still be the corned beef eating Irishman but no beer. You have to remember one thing, your cultural identity won't help you on the Day of Judgement when you meet your Creator. Only true belief, good deeds and most important the Mercy and Grace of Allah.