Turkey's referendum result

[Simple_Person]

Source used: https://twitter.com/anadoluagency

What could be seen or said about this?

Democracy by default isn't a sure thing, as it can be manipulated. Recently i have been seeing this 51 vs 49 more often in democratic places, which to me seems VERY VERY FISHY..do keep in mind i am skeptical and i ask too many questions.

Any ways let's say it is "legit" and this is REALLY the result of the referendum of 51% vs 49%. What does this say about Turkey's future?

Turkey in the past had the glue named Turkish nationalism. With this referendum it clearly shows the unity among the people does not exist or has faded away. Turks as we already have seen lately have been divided to Kemalists (secular Turks) vs AKP-supporters vs Gulen-supporters. I am not mentioning Armenians and Kurds, because that is a different subject. So right now the dividends already exists with the Turks themselves.

Because of this slight change we could say Kemalists + Gulen supporters + many Kurds (although not all off course) + Armenians (although i don't know if they are like some Kurds are pro-AKP) have voted against it (49 percent).

Turks by this large portion of the country have never disagreed with each other. In the past Turks themselves go a long just fine, while Kurds for majority were the one fighting back. Now the group fighting back has gained good amount of people. This could be resulting in a civil war. Why do i say this? Because people who have never faced oppression will off course at the beginning fight back.

This fighting is VERY convenient for either Russia OR NATO. So again i come back to the issue of IF Turkey chooses to side with Russia, NATO supporting the opposition with demonstrations as well as military power (PKK). If Turkey chooses for NATO, Russia supporting the same..although i think rather they would openly but more actively support PKK. As just recently PKK had downed a Turkish Cobra helicopter with a Russian IGLA manpad. As a Kurd myself i have NEVER known this happen in all the years PKK has fought Turkey. So this clearly turns things 180 degrees the other side.

 

[Mustafa16]

It means Erdogan has absolute power until the U.S. Supreme court investigations into Erdogan, Bilal Erdogan, Reza Zarrab, and Hasan Attila's money laundering, war crimes, and crimes against humanity charges for funding ISIS, al qaeda, boko haram, and bypassing iranian sanctions, and crimes against humanity against Kurdish people in SE Turkey, (some of which were attempted to be proven by turkish courts in 2013), result in a guilty verdict and international sanctions against Turkey, and the arrest of Tayyip Erdogan, Bilal Erdogan, Reza Zarrab, and Hasan Atilla for life. I will grab some popcorn when I see them whisked away in handcuffs inshaAllah

 

[sister herb]

I noticed that before the elections those whose were at opposition against the expanding of the president´s powers, hadn´t possibility to use the media in campaigning. Well, majority of the opposition leaders were in the prisons already.

About this result it sounds like the refendum of Brexit: half of the nation were unhappy to the result at the next day and many of those whose voted for brexit said later they didn´t understand what they actually did when they said "yes".

Kind of result is now what Russia wanted - and media has talked a lot at the last years how Russia has increased it´s influence as well affected to the elections in many countries (including the elections of the USA).

 

[Simple_Person]

It means Erdogan has absolute power until the U.S. Supreme court investigations into Erdogan, Bilal Erdogan, Reza Zarrab, and Hasan Attila's money laundering, war crimes, and crimes against humanity charges for funding ISIS, al qaeda, boko haram, and bypassing iranian sanctions, and crimes against humanity against Kurdish people in SE Turkey, (some of which were attempted to be proven by turkish courts in 2013), result in a guilty verdict and international sanctions against Turkey, and the arrest of Tayyip Erdogan, Bilal Erdogan, Reza Zarrab, and Hasan Atilla for life. I will grab some popcorn when I see them whisked away in handcuffs inshaAllah

Bro, you cling TOO much on human rights and a fair and just world. I am not sure if this is because you are still young and unaware what is happening. However US KNOWS all along about everything what is going on.

Russia the same. Russia at the beginning said very clearly that Turkey was dealing with ISIS now suddenly they have kept their mouth shut. Why? Because of their interests. This goes the same with US and other countries. They know EVERYTHING but use it when such a country doesn't obey them anymore. So the investigation that you are looking for..well you can wait for a very long time but it will not come.

 

[Simple_Person]

I noticed that before the elections those whose were at opposition against the expanding of the president´s powers, hadn´t possibility to use the media in campaigning. Well, majority of the opposition leaders were in the prisons already.

About this result it sounds like the refendum of Brexit: half of the nation were unhappy to the result at the next day and many of those whose voted for brexit said later they didn´t understand what they actually did when they said "yes".

Kind of result is now what Russia wanted - and media has talked a lot at the last years how Russia has increased it´s influence as well affected to the elections in many countries (including the elections of the USA).

This is indeed very beneficial for Russia. I mean disunity is very good. Especially with NATO countries. It is a big chess game. With Erdogan shutting the opposition is off course logical and very clear for the observers while people living in Turkey are blind for what is going on. The ones that pursue nationalism themselves if you try to talk to them about these things they get angry and start cursing at you and try even to psychically attack you. A typical behavior of people who intellectually are very poor which is the outcome of Turkish nationalism. This I see for example also with Kurds who pursue natonalism. When try to have a intellectual talk about how bad leadership the Kurds have they become all emotionally charged and start shouting. These people that pursue nationalism make excellent sheep behavior.

The video that I posted where a PKK soldier took down a Turkish helicopter Nationalistic Turks get all angry. I mean why? Truth is truth it is not as if I am lying that ever took place. However this backups what I am trying to say and shatters their dream.

The world is going down the drain at the same time.

 

[sister herb]

And now problems have already started: "There is a violation of the constitution in Turkey's referendum on the counting, says a researcher of Turkey political life, Halil Gürhanli to Finnish News Agency STT.

The Central Election Committee decided that they will accept also the unlabelled envelopes of votes, a researcher says.

This may cause problems, says Halil Gürhanli."

Source: http://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000005173608.html

Who was surprised?

 

[Simple_Person]

And now problems have already started: "There is a violation of the constitution in Turkey's referendum on the counting, says a researcher of Turkey political life, Halil Gürhanli to Finnish News Agency STT.

The Central Election Committee decided that they will accept also the unlabelled envelopes of votes, a researcher says.

This may cause problems, says Halil Gürhanli."

Source: http://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000005173608.html

Who was surprised?

Yesterday or so, i read a article that IF there is a majority of NO votes, Erdogan will not get it off so easily. These are CLEAR signs of dictators, people who go their OWN way instead of following what the people want. The world for sure is heading more towards corruption so what is happening in Turkey, one must not say it is for the best, rather it goes towards destruction. Just like Trump. Just look how easily he makes things..no regard for human life..image is all that counts as he is pushing for a war with North Korea and has backtracked already with some of the things he said during his campaign.

What i found the MOST strange thing is, he send his son-in-law Jared Kushner to the Middle East. He is 36 years old, has NO diplomatic experience YET has been sent there to act as a mediator and bring peace. He himself says that he is a Orthodox Jew. So right now i would say, keep your eyes on this guys as there is something fishy going on.

"If you can't produce peace in the Middle East, nobody can."

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a8293534/who-is-jared-kushner-trump-administration/

 

[Futuwwa]

It means Erdogan has absolute power until the U.S. Supreme court investigations into Erdogan, Bilal Erdogan, Reza Zarrab, and Hasan Attila's money laundering, war crimes, and crimes against humanity charges for funding ISIS, al qaeda, boko haram, and bypassing iranian sanctions, and crimes against humanity against Kurdish people in SE Turkey, (some of which were attempted to be proven by turkish courts in 2013), result in a guilty verdict and international sanctions against Turkey, and the arrest of Tayyip Erdogan, Bilal Erdogan, Reza Zarrab, and Hasan Atilla for life. I will grab some popcorn when I see them whisked away in handcuffs inshaAllah

The US Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction over Erdogan. At most, it could rule that the US government is legally obligated to go after him. That, too, would be utterly unprecedented. Never has the US Supreme Court overruled US foreign policy, or dictated that it must take certain actions within the realm of foreign policy.

 

[Mustafa16]

The US Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction over Erdogan. At most, it could rule that the US government is legally obligated to go after him. That, too, would be utterly unprecedented. Never has the US Supreme Court overruled US foreign policy, or dictated that it must take certain actions within the realm of foreign policy.

You're forgetting something. Boko Haram, al qaeda, and ISIS are HATED by EVERYONE in the international community. We're talking about international sanctions. And not only did Turkey steal money from its own citizens, but also from Iran. reza Zarrab's boss was EXECUTED for corruption in Iran. So Iran won't provide financial aid to Turkey and neither will Russia or China (who also face separatist movements from similar groups). Turkey will eventually turn in Erdogan to international courts themselves, or Turkey will be invaded (if we have a hawkish, war mongering president like George Bush especially). And he is also facing crimes against humanity charges against the Kurds.

 

[Futuwwa]

You think Trump is going to be able to gather enough international support to put together an international sanctions regime? This is Trump we're talking about. And for what? For supporting militant extremist groups? Countries do that all the time, whenever it suits their interests, and it isn't a crime under international law. You're naive if you think Turkey would end up under sanctions for something like that.

 

[Simple_Person]

You think Trump is going to be able to gather enough international support to put together an international sanctions regime? This is Trump we're talking about. And for what? For supporting militant extremist groups? Countries do that all the time, whenever it suits their interests, and it isn't a crime under international law. You're naive if you think Turkey would end up under sanctions for something like that.

Although i am myself not a big supporter of Turks and their nationalism, i agree completely with you. Brother @Mustafa16 you are being very naive. This world and international law and everything that is made for "justice" ONLY counts if all other things don't work.

Kurd have been oppressed ALL ALONG. You think not one of those countries did know about this? The question is why didn't they take action against it? Political interests. Trade of 1 billion is MORE important than having to speak out against the oppressors. This international law and court is made to appear as if this is a just world. However when you look deep in to it, you see it is all deception.

 

[anatolian]

PKK terrorists used Russian guns always that's not a new thing. PKK was created as a Marxist-Leninist ethnic kurdish group and supported by the Soviets until their collapse. Gun trade is controlled by the global mafia today and they can find any gun for money. But we slay more PKK terrorists then they shaheed our soldiers, don't worry.

 

[Simple_Person]

PKK terrorists used Russian guns always that's not a new thing. PKK was created as a Marxist-Leninist ethnic kurdish group and supported by the Soviets until their collapse. Gun trade is controlled by the global mafia today and they can find any gun for money. But we slay more PKK terrorists then they shaheed our soldiers, don't worry.

Turkish terrorists have been buying US weapons for some time now. SECULAR Turkey was created by a crypt-Jew named Mustafa Kemal to divide Muslims pushed by people surrounding current Turkey. The people who migrated to Turkey got their passports like candy to make Kurds a minority. Until now Turkey has been supported by NATO secular terrorist. Gun business is something very normal as enemy generals go to such conventions and get their weapons like shopping at a shopping mall. But PKK keeps on killing more Turkish terrorists and no end in sight. Also Allah knows best if PKK are shaheed or not. However as a Muslims myself, NO such a thing as a Turkish shaheed. A shaheed is one that fights against oppression, not one that is driving the oppression.

Suddenly it is a totally different picture right . If one says A, you also have to say B.

 

[Mustafa16]

PKK terrorists used Russian guns always that's not a new thing. PKK was created as a Marxist-Leninist ethnic kurdish group and supported by the Soviets until their collapse. Gun trade is controlled by the global mafia today and they can find any gun for money. But we slay more PKK terrorists then they shaheed our soldiers, don't worry.

Sorry. Misunderstood [MENTION=16149]anatolian[/MENTION] s post

 

[anatolian]

..Also Allah knows best if PKK are shaheed or not. However as a Muslims myself, NO such a thing as a Turkish shaheed..

You just ridicule yourself with your super genious ideas about the origin of Turkish people and such but that statement above is beyond me. Being a Muslim gives you the right to decide that there is no such a thing as Turkish shaheed? So you want to think on behalf of Allah?

 

[anatolian]

Sorry. Misunderstood [MENTION=16149]anatolian[/MENTION] s post

Which part you didn't understand?

 

[Simple_Person]

You just ridicule yourself with your super genious ideas about the origin of Turkish people and such but that statement above is beyond me. Being a Muslim gives you the right to decide that there is no such a thing as Turkish shaheed? So you want to think on behalf of Allah?

No i base this on what i see. Just you saying "la illah ila allah muhammad rasul allah" and fighting in the name of PRO-oppression doesn't make one shaheed you know.

Let me rephrase it. A MUSLIM US soldier goes to Iraq kills people there including women and children and in the end gets killed by one of the people in Iraq. Is this according to you a shaheed? Or not a shaheed? Do answer this question please.

Btw, YOU CLAIMING i "ridicule" myself, doesn't mean it is a fact. You are simply entitled to your opinion.

 

[sister herb]

Well, wouldn´t it be easier to let Kurds to create their own government and country instead of calling them terrorists, slaying them and oppress them? Or is there in the Kurdistan something what is so important to Turkey (and other countries) that it´s more beneficial to keep them under the rule of others? Like natural resources? Or is it geo-political issue?

 

[anatolian]

No i base this on what i see. Just you saying "la illah ila allah muhammad rasul allah" and fighting in the name of PRO-oppression doesn't make one shaheed you know.

Let me rephrase it. A MUSLIM US soldier goes to Iraq kills people there including women and children and in the end gets killed by one of the people in Iraq. Is this according to you a shaheed? Or not a shaheed? Do answer this question please.

Btw, YOU CLAIMING i "ridicule" myself, doesn't mean it is a fact. You are simply entitled to your opinion.

I am not here to play rhetoric games with you. There is not such an oppression against Kurdish people today in Turkey which can justify the actions of PKK. All the missing rights could be achieved by Democracy if they cut off their ties with PKK but PKK have to terrorize the region for the sake of the imperialist plans of the country you blame. Kurdish terrorists in Iraaq killed that people of Iraq along with the soldier of the same country.

 

[sister herb]

I am not playing rhetoric games but asked a question. Maybe someone else can answer, without aggressive tone. Also, I didn´t speak about PKK but Kurdish people. They all aren´t supporters of PKK and such organization.

Ok, I know that´s off topic but Kurds and their organizations was mentioned already in this thread.

And what comes to the oppression, I have other kind of information from my Kurdish friends.