Palestinian-israeli Conflict - By Lamaggad & lavikor201 :)

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I received this by e-mail. I am not sure of the source, but I believe it's WorldNetDaily.com [not a reliable source I suppose]
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Says Al Aqsa custodians passed down stories for centuries indicating mosque was built at site of former Jewish Temples
Aaron Klein, WorldNetDaily

Contradicting most of his colleagues, a former senior leader of the Waqf, the Islamic custodians of the Temple Mount, told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview he has come to believe the first and second Jewish Temples existed and stood at the current location of the Al Aqsa Mosque.

The leader, who was dismissed from his Waqf position after he quietly made his beliefs known, said Al Aqsa custodians passed down stories for centuries from generation to generation indicating the mosque was built at the site of the former Jewish Temples.

He said the Muslim world's widespread denial of the existence of the Jewish temples is political in nature and is not rooted in facts.

"Prophet Solomon built his famous Temple at the same place that later the Al Aqsa Mosque was built. It cannot be a coincidence that these different holy sites were built at the same place. The Jewish Temple Mount existed," said the former senior Waqf leader, speaking from an apartment in an obscure alley in Jerusalem's Old City.

The former leader, who is well known to Al Aqsa scholars and Waqf officials, spoke on condition his name be withheld, claiming an on-the-record interview would endanger his life.

'Political denial'

While the Islamic leader's statements may seem elementary to many in the West, especially in light of overwhelming archaeological evidence documenting the history of the Jewish temples and description of services there in the Torah, his words break with mainstream thinking in much of the Muslim world, which believes the Jewish temples never existed.

"I am mentioning historical facts," said the former leader. "I know that the traditional denial about the temple existing at the same place as Al Aqsa is more a political denial. Unfortunately our religious and political leaders chose the option of denial to fight the Jewish position and demands regarding Al Aqsa and taking back the Temple Mount compound. In my opinion we should admit the truth and abandon our traditional position."

The leader said his conclusion that the Jewish temples existed does not forfeit what he calls "Islamic rights" to the Temple Mount and Al Aqsa Mosque.

"Yes, the temple existed. But now it is the place of the mosque of the religious who came to complete the divine religion and to improve humanity," said the leader.

"We believe that Islam is the third and last religion. It came to complete the monotheistic message. The mosque is here at the place of the temple to serve for the same purpose, for the work Allah"

Jewish history


The First Temple was built by King Solomon in the 10th century B.C. It was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 B.C. The Second Temple was rebuilt in 515 B.C. after Jerusalem was freed from Babylonian captivity. That temple was destroyed by the Roman Empire in A.D. 70. Each temple stood for a period of about four centuries.


The Jewish Temple, mentioned hundreds of times in the Torah, was the center of religious Jewish worship. It housed the Holy of Holies, which contained the Ark of the Covenant and was said to be the area upon which God's "presence" dwelt.

The temple served as the primary location for the offering of sacrifices and was the main gathering place in Israel during Jewish holidays.

The Temple Mount compound has remained a focal point for Jewish services over the millennia. Prayers for a return to Jerusalem have been uttered by Jews since the Second Temple was destroyed, according to Jewish tradition. Jews worldwide pray facing toward the Western Wall, a portion of an outer courtyard of the Temple left in tact.

'The farthest mosque'


The Al Aqsa Mosque was constructed in about 709 to serve as a shrine near another nearby shrine, the Dome of the Rock, which was built by an Islamic caliph. Al Aqsa was meant to mark what Muslims came to believe may have been the place at which Muhammad, the founder of Islam, ascended to heaven during a dream to receive revelations from Allah.

Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Quran. Islamic tradition states Mohammed took a journey in a single night from "a sacred mosque" - believed to in Mecca in southern Saudi Arabia - to "the farthest mosque" and from a rock there ascended to heaven. The farthest mosque later became associated with Jerusalem.

Muslims worldwide deny the Jewish temples ever existed in spite of what many call overwhelming archaeological evidence, including the discovery of Temple-era artifacts linked to worship, tunnels that snake under the Temple Mount and over 100 ritual immersion pools believed to have been used by Jewish priests to cleanse themselves before services. The cleansing process is detailed in the Torah.

According to the website of the Palestinian Authority's Office for Religious Affairs, the Temple Mount is Muslim property. The site claims the Western Wall, which it refers to as the Al-Boraq Wall, previously was a docking station for horses. It states Muhammed tied his horse, named Boraq, to the wall before ascending to heaven.

'Al-Aqsa Mosque was built by angels'

In a previous interview with WorldNetDaily, Kamal Hatib, vice-chairman of the Islamic Movement, claimed the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built by angels and that a Jewish Temple may have existed but not in Jerusalem. The Movement, which works closely with the Waqf, is the Muslim group in Israel most identified with the Temple Mount.

"When the First Temple was built by Solomon - God bless him - Al Aqsa was already built. We don't believe that a prophet like Solomon would have built the Temple at a place where a mosque existed," said Hatib.

"And all the historical and archaeological facts deny any relation between the temples and the location of Al Aqsa. We must know that Jerusalem was occupied and that people left many things, coins and other things everywhere. This does not mean in any way that there is a link between the people who left these things and the place where these things were left," Hatib said.

'True' Islamic tradition affirms temples

But the former senior Waqf leader told WND "true" Islamic tradition relates the Jewish temples once stood at the site of the Al Aqsa Mosque. He said Al Aqsa custodians passed down history over the centuries indicating the mosque was built at the site of the former Jewish temples.

"The existence of the Jewish Temple at the site is obvious according to studies, researches and archaeological signs that we were also exposed to. But especially according to the history that passed from one generation to another - we believe Al Aqsa was built on the same place were the Temple of the Jews - the first monotheistic religion - existed."

He cited samples of some stories he said were related orally by Islamic leaders:

"We learned that the Christians, especially those who believed that Jesus was crucified by the Jews, used to throw their garbage at the Temple Mount site. They used to throw the pieces of cotton and other material Christian women used in cleaning the blood of their monthly cycle. While doing so they believed that they were humiliating, insulting and harming the Jews at their holiest site. This way they are hurting them like Jews hurt Christians when crucifying Jesus.

"It is known also that most of the first guards of Al Aqsa when it was built were Jews. The Muslims knew at that time that they could not find any more loyal and faithful than the Jews to guard the mosque and its compound. They knew that the Jews have a special relation with this place."

Temple Mount: No-prayer zone

Currently, even though the Israel controls Jerusalem, the Waqf serve as the custodians of the Temple Mount under a deal made with the Israeli government that restricts non-Muslim prayer at the site.

The Temple Mount was opened to the general public until September 2000, when the Palestinians started their intifada by throwing stones at Jewish worshipers after then-candidate for prime minister Ariel Sharon visited the area.

Following the onset of violence, the new Sharon government closed the Mount to non-Muslims, using checkpoints to control all pedestrian traffic for fear of further clashes with the Palestinians.

The Temple Mount was reopened to non-Muslims in August 2003. It still is open, but not on any Christian, Jewish or Muslim holidays or other days considered "sensitive" by the Waqf.

During "open" days, Jews and Christian are allowed to ascend the Mount, usually through organized tours and only if they conform first to a strict set of guidelines, which includes demands that they not pray or bring any "holy objects" to the site. Visitors are banned from entering any of the mosques without direct Waqf permission. Rules are enforced by Waqf agents, who watch tours closely and alert nearby Israeli police to any breaking of their guidelines.

The former senior Waqf leader said the Jewish temples have lost their purpose:

"As we are the religion who is here to correct everything that was before us there is no need for the Temple. Allah chose Islam as its final and favorite religion."
 
Hmm... it seems this denial that the Temples existed at what is now the Al-Aqsa site is a very recent development, which does rather suggest is is blatantly political motive (as far as I'm aware no non-muslim scholar has ever seriously disputed it).

This from Wikipedia

A Brief Guide to al-Haram al-Sharif, a booklet published in 1930 by the "Supreme Moslem Council", a body established by the British government to administer waqfs and headed by Hajj Amin al-Husayni during the British Mandate period, states:

"The site is one of the oldest in the world. Its sanctity dates from the earliest times. Its identity with the site of Solomon's Temple is beyond dispute. This, too, is the spot, according to universal belief, on which David built there an altar unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings."


More recent examples include a fatwa issued by the Saudi Sheikh M. S. al-Munajjid, quoted on IslamOnline, 18 March 2001, stating that:

"Al-Aqsa Mosque (in Jerusalem) was the first of the two qiblahs (prayer direction), and is one of the three mosques to which people may travel for the purpose of worship. And it was said that it was built by Sulayman (Solomon), as stated in Sunan an-Nasa’i and classed as authentic by al-Albani."

Since the beginning of Islam, this has been the orthodox position. Starting in the 1990s, however, some people, including the PA-appointed Sheikh Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, chairperson of the Palestinian Higher Islamic Commission and Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, have denied that the site is connected with Solomon, and that it had any history involving the Jews.
 
The Dome of the Rock will remain. To the dislike of many Christians.

You see we would love to rebuild our Temple mount, but is even more important fro Christians for us to.

Christians believe that the only way Jesus can come back on earth is when Israel is a Jewish State, and the Jews rebuild there temple which was destroyed....

Jesus may not come back for a long time.... lol. :-)

Because Israel will not do anything to a place of worship like the Dome of the Rock even though it is built on our holiest site.

I have actually been in the tunnel. The tunnel is basically so jews can get to the part of the wall (the wall is underneath ground to) and pray to the closest thing to the Temple which is the wall in the tunnel. :-)


I'm a newbie to Islam myself. But, the way I understand it is the rug itself has no significance in itself. The purpose is to provide a clean surface for us to pray on. We believe in both physical and mental cleanliness as being essential to prayer so we try to make our thoughts and surrounding as clean as possible. We can not always be too certain about the floor, but the rug we can know is clean. In the event of emergency anything clean can be used as a prayer rug such as a plastic bag, a sheet of clean card board etc.

Thats cool. I actually saw the coolest thing ever. A prayer Rug with a compus build in so you don't pray with your back turned to Mecca by accident.
 
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But for the Temple to be rebuilt, musn't the mosque come down?

Yes. And Israel, and Jews are not going to take it down.... so basically I don't see how the Temple can be rebuilt. We pray at the Werstern Wall because it is the only structure connected to our Temple left. :)
 
Read the book of Revelations, it is quite interesting. It really claims in there that the Jews must rebuild there Temple and then Jesus will come and forc us to convert or we will all die by the Anti-Christ. It really is such an Anti-Semetic and Anti-Muslims book because we are there "tools"... LOL.

http://www.awitness.org/biblehtm/re/index.htm
 
Christians believe that the only way Jesus can come back on earth is when Israel is a Jewish State, and the Jews rebuild there temple which was destroyed....
oh.. and by the way...!! how come Christians in Palestine do not believe the same and they are actually saying that they are innocent from those who say what you just said..?!?!
 
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oh.. and by the way...!! how come Christians in Palestine do not believe the same and they are actually saying that they are innocent from those who say what you just said..?!?!

All Chrsitians do not follow the Book of Revelations teachings. Only baptist, presbeterian(sp?) evangelical, and protestant.

The Catholic Church doesn't... but I will fuel your conspiracy theory even farther! LOL. Your gonna go nuts...'

52% of America is Protestant! :happy:

Let the Conspiracy Theory Begin! LOL!


After you awnser my question of course.

Do all Muslims not drink any alcohol... because my Muslim friends don't... but is that a persaonal descion or does it actually say somewhere in the quran don't drink beer.

Sorry if it is a dumb question. :hiding:
 
Either way catmando, the debate is over.

We both realize the other won't budge so there isn't any point of getting emotionally involved in a pointless arguement.
 
Actually if you follow Muslim law you will go to heaven because Judaism respects Islam as such a beautiful religion.

Is it? Wow, so according to two religions (Islam and Judaism) Muslims can go to heaven. Cool. Dont know about this.

I've read from Jews for Allah website that, when Muslims liberated Jerusalem from Romans, the Al Aqsa site was just a dumpsite. When Caliph Omar ordered Muslims to clean the place and build a mosque, many Jews helped the Muslims, at least they're building a place which is sacred not a dumpsite. Is it true?
 
:sl: and Greetings,

This thread seems to be predominantly the same as the one entitled 'Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew', therefore many posts have been moved there:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/23296-questions-about-judaism-awnsered-jew-9.html

Peace.
Ya i noticed that.. but i don't think it was a good idea to remove them though as they were connected to each other...

May Allah reward for your efforts :) and thanks for keeping the forum very well organized :)
 
Israeli raid kills Palestinian civilians

[pictures removed, as may not be suitable for public viewing]
Click Here to see more Picts

They are claiming that they are killing armed people.... all what i see here is that we are loosing KIDS and INNOCENT PEOPLE... May Allah help the families who lost their kids.

They are still not satisfied of what they have done in Gaza on the beach.. and now they are doing even worse..!! US is not even condemning what those criminals are doing..!!!!!!!!!!! democracy my foot


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A Palestinian woman and one of her relatives have been killed and 13 people wounded, including children, in a second Israeli air raid on the southern Gaza Strip in two days.




Palestinian security sources said a rocket fired by an Israeli aircraft took aim at a car, missed its target and struck a house.

Local medical sources and witnesses said 27-year-old Fatima al-Barbarawi was killed and 14 others were injured.

One of her relatives, Zakaria al-Barbarawi, 45, later died of wounds suffered in the attack.



The medical sources said that five children aged 1 to 4 were among the wounded and that of the 13 injured civilians four were in serious condition.



Palestinian condemnation

The Palestinian leadership condemned the strike, which came as the international community criticised the death of three Palestinian children in a raid on Tuesday.


Five children were injured in
Wednesday's attack

Nabil Abu Rudeina, the Palestinian presidency spokesman, said: "The continued escalation and assassinations are exacerbating tensions in the region and compromise efforts seeking to relaunch the peace process."


On June 13, nine civilians were killed in an air raid, and on June 9, eight members of one family were killed while picnicking on a Gaza beach in an attack a rights group blamed on an Israeli shell.

Ryad Mansour, the Palestinian observer at the UN, appealed to the Security Council to demand that Israel, as an occupying power, abide by provisions of the fourth Geneva Convention, which he said were applicable to the occupied Palestinian territories.

UN disturbed

The United Nations urged Israel to stop targeted killings of members of Palestinian resistance groups in the Gaza Strip.

Briefing the Security Council on the latest developments in the Middle East, Ibrahim Gambari, the UN undersecretary-general for political affairs, said Israel had stepped up its policy of targeted killings and of shelling Gaza areas from which rockets were fired at its territory.

"We would like to once again underscore the need for Israel to cease targeted killings, which continue to claim civilian lives"

Ibrahim Gambari,
UN undersecretary-general for political affairs

He said Kofi Annan, the UN secretary-general, was "particularly disturbed that despite his prior expressions of concern, this pattern was repeated yesterday, when three children were killed and a number of bystanders injured, during another targeted killing by Israel".

"We would like to, once again, underscore the need for Israel to cease targeted killings, which continue to claim civilian lives," Gambari said.

"It is the view of the secretary-general that Israeli actions should be proportionate and in accordance to humanitarian law."

Israel not dissuaded

But Israel said on Wednesday that it would not stop its policy of firing missiles at Palestinian targets despite the civilian deaths.

Major-General Eliezer Shakedi, Israel's air force commander, said air strikes remained the most accurate way to combat Palestinian fighters.



Shakedi told Israel's Army Radio: "We have to make a great effort to try everything possible to avoid hitting civilians. We have to fight terrorism and we are doing it ... this is more or less the central alternative, the most accurate and the best possible alternative without entering a broad and very significant [ground] operation."
 
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I guess I could show the pictures of kids who were on a field trip in Israel and a Hamas suicide bomber chose them as his victims of terror, but I am not going to because of forum rules.

No pictures of humans are aloud, and I don't want to disgust the whole forum by showing a picture of a 3 year old baby whose only crime was to love life, and her life ended to early because Hamas believes that justice is killing unarmed children. Not firing a missle at terrorists who hide near civillians on purpose... but detonating a bomb, for no other reason but to spread terror.
 
my picts are removed by the admin as i didn't know about the forum rules.

Hamas does not believe that justice is killing unarmed children... that is another lie that israel and US government and MADIA are saying about the Resistance groups in Palestine who are DEFENDING thier land.. and they pointing at Hamas SPECIALLY trying to kick her out of the rule...

I have the same opinion about the israelis government, and actually in Jewish laws there is one law that is in your Torah that give the green light for any israeli to kill any male weather he's a small kid or old man or what ever as long as they are in a war for the land of israel (kill all the men without distinction) (kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately)
can you deny that?!?

i am against any small kid to be killed or any person who is UNARMED to be killed, Islam is against any kids or any old people or any women or any person who is NOT fighting in the middle of the battle to be Killed.

but you have to understand that the FEW israili kids whom you are talking about were ACCIDENTALLY killed... we do not POINT our weapons on their faces and kill them purposely as israel is doing...

MUHAMMED Al-DURRA is the biggest example for that who was killed in front of his dad and infront of the WHOLE MEDIA while his dad who was UNARMED trying to protect his son... and now HUDA GHALYA... israeli criminals killed her whole family purposely while they were UNARMED going for picnic. and much more, another example SABRA & SHATILA

if Palestinians have your weapons they'd use it wisely without killing any inoccent people bcz Islam orders Muslims to protect ANY inoccent live UNLIKE israel who are actually following their law of killing..

i don't know if you believe in that law..? but others does, and i have met allot of israelis who believe that they are the blessed people and the rest are animals who should die if they do not obey israel.
 
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but you have to understand that the FEW israili kids whom you are talking about were ACCIDENTALLY killed... we do not POINT our weapons on their face and kill them purposely as israel is doing...

A suicide bomber went up to the group of kids on the field trip, and securuity gaurd tried to stop him, and he blew himself up... dont tell me he did not mean to kill the kids....


(kill all the men without distinction) (kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately)

Again you misinterpret a verse... Gain knowledge about Torah... but do not smear G-d's word....

We were commanded to to this to the Midians, a people of Idol worshipers who commited crimes against hummanity against the Israelites. Hashem gave us permission to fight back with no mercy, and destroy the prisoners they took, the same way they killed us. It has nothing to do with Palestinians... but hey... most of the rest of your post was based on innaccuracy so I guess misquoting G-d's word tops it off.
 
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A suicide bomber went up to the group of kids on the field trip, and securuity gaurd tried to stop him, and he blew himself up... dont tell me he did not mean to kill the kids....

you left my whole post and replied ONLY about that suicide bomber...

what about the Jewish law that most israeli soldiersand your government are following... do that give them the right to wipe all Palestinians kids?!!!!!!!!!!

a guy who lost members of his family, his house was destroyed bcz he didn't pay the UNFAIR taxes for israel, he doesn't have any kind of ID, he doesn't have money to feed his kids and their kids can not go to school bcz of the racist israeli borders...

thats why people would go suicide them selves...

do you think it's easy to kill your self like this?!?! why don't you go and ask why those people would go and bomb them selves?! why don't you go and ask about the people who are SUFFERING since isreal have occupied our land?!?! why don't you ask your self why their are allot of Jewish communities inside israel and in US and here in Canada are AGAINST THE STATE of israel??
why don't you ask your self why am i against israel?

If we have an army like every country, there would be no bombers.. but we have NOTHING but that for now.

so please don't tell me about the bomber thing which is actually Responding to the CONTINUOUS israeli attacks... you know nothing about these people except what the unfaithful media is telling you.
 
you left my whole post and replied ONLY about that suicide bomber...

Why don't you respond to the smearing of the Torah the word of G-d you made when in fact... the way you interpreted the verse is completley blind and wrong haveing nothing to do withe Palestinians and Israeli's..

Dont tell me you guys are fighting back by walking up to three year old and blowing them up. The only reason someone does that... is to spread fear and terror. The gates of heaven will never open for him, and he will never get his "72 virgins"

are SUFFERING since isreal have occupied our land?!?! why don't you ask your self why their are allot of Jewish communities inside israel and in US and here in Canada are AGAINST THE STATE of israel??

Oh yes... 10,000 out of 14 Million is a lot... those 10,000 of the NK follow a fanatical Rabbi who has misinterprets many evrses of the Torah... and believes when the Messiah comes we will conquer Israel anyway... Ally yourself with them and then get stabbed in the back because they dont want peace... they have an agenda, and they are using the Palestinians. 99% Jews care about Peace not misinterpreted verses of controll of the Holy Land.
 
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Why don't you respond to the smearing of the Torah the word of G-d you made when in fact... the way you interpreted the verse is completley blind and wrong haveing nothing to do withe Palestinians and Israeli's..
YOU HAVE EDITED YOUR POST WHILE I WAS REPLYING... SO HOW AM I SUPPOSE TO ANSWER WHAT YOU HAVE POSTED AFTER WITHOUT SEEING IT?!?!?!

Again you misinterpret a verse... Gain knowledge about Torah... but do not smear G-d's word....
second... i am not interrupting the words of God.. the word of God in Torah and the Bible are interrupted since long time ago, that is why we have the Qur'an now.

what I'm saying is based on some Jewish believes that CONTRADICTS your believes... that's what you should say. don't accuse me for mistakes that i didn't do, i did not smear with God unlike those who have change the original revolution of Torah and made it even contradicts your believes.



Dont tell me you guys are fighting back by walking up to three years old and blowing them up.
excuse me...

they did not blow up them selves to kill this 3 years kid... the 3 years kid was there during the accedent... and again she is ACCEDENTLY KILLED.


The only reason someone does that... is to spread fear and terror. The gates of heaven will never open for him, and he will never get his "72 virgins"

here you go, you are telling me not to interrupt God's words, and look what you are doing...

if we believe that we can go to heaven that easy by going out their and bomb our selves, trust me I'll be the first one who'd do this...


Oh yes... 10,000 out of 14 Million is a lot... those 10,000 of the NK follow a fanatical Rabbi who has misinterprets many evrses of the Torah... and believes when the Messiah comes we will conquer Israel anyway....
why you are accusing them for misinterprets many verses.. why don't you blame your self that you are following the wrong version of Torah.
Ally yourself with them and then get stabbed in the back because they dont want peace... they have an agenda, and they are using the Palestinians. 99% Jews care about Peace not misinterpreted verses of controll of the Holy Land
we are stabbed in the back with your government wene our leaders agreed to sign OSLO agreement.
we are stabbed in the back wene israel claiming that they want peace but on the other hand they keep destroying our houses while they clearly know that palestinians can not afford money for their unfair taxes.
we are stabbed in the back from Washington and US democracy that does not condemn what israel is doing wene they keep keep killing Innocent people and kids.. and say instead that israel have the right to defend them selves.
we are stabbed in the back wene Hamas won the elections by full democracy, and now israel and US are trying to kick them out by valence, racism and making people suffer without money for FOUR MONTHS bcz they have voiced their opinion about Hamas.

don't tell me about those groups... at least those anti zionism groups, are some what telling the TRUTH that you keep denying.
why dad was living peacfully over there... what did he get in return?!?!?!?!
 
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