what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

[Umar001]

i'm not 4-Christ-Alone, so you have to wait for him, but i can qoute this part you are talking about:



so it seems that "pains in childbearing" are not a matter of personal sin. you may be "sinless" and still it will hurt (as long as you are alive)
BTW; giving birth to human children is so painfull because of 2 things:
1) that we walk on 2 legs and this have changed our pelvis
2) size of brain
so pain is a price for knowlegde (of good and evil). not only in Bible but also in antrophology
n.

What is antrophology?

Lol and are you telling me they walked on all 4s before the fall?

Sean bro take your time please.

 

[duskiness]

What is antrophology?

a mistake in spelling "anthropology"

Lol and are you telling me they walked on all 4s before the fall?

:giggling: of course not! i'm rather doing thing that shouldn't be done - mixing religion and science
n.

 

[Umar001]

a mistake in spelling "anthropology"

:giggling: of course not! i'm rather doing thing that shouldn't be done - mixing religion and science
n.

I wouldnt have noticed and didnt notice that spelling mistake

and science and religion mixin aint that bad of a thing

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

We have also concluded that there are many times when GOD cursed a people or a community but then forgave them and the punishement was lifted.It is easy for god is it not?

Can you please give some references?

ANd when you say sin is the lack of GOD,do you then denounce all the OT,of all the Propehts who were led by GOD to save the different races?Do you denounce the way of atonement set in the OT?

why wud i be denouncing that? if a man is evil and living in sin is this lack of God in his life? yes! so i dont know wat you mean by that.

But now we come to the current.If Jesus died to save chrisitan from sin,why then does the curse still resound in every chrisitan now?

Maybe u didnt understand, Jesus didnt come so the curse of sin could be lifted in physical life, He came to pay the eternal punishemnt for sin, he came so that when we pass through to the spiritual world, and we are standing before God, we will not have to answer for the wrongs we have did, but only if we die believing, following and accepting his son Jesus as our saviour. You can understand that. The curse of sin in this life is not important, its not a punishment, you are speaking as if christians are burdoned with this huge curse, when really we are the most blessed people alive to know someone like Jesus Christ.

When you say the wages of sin is "Death"...may i ask,dont w have to die to enter eternal life?Thus death is a prerequisite preceding eternal life.

Yes our physical bodies die, isnt that obvious? But what happens to our spirit? When paul wrote the wages of sin is death he didnt mean physically dyeing!

My question has always been simple but so far the quesiton and point raised by yourself and others ,begs more question.

My answer has been simple alough i dont expect u to accept any answer right or wrong.

God bless

 

[Zulkiflim]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Can you please give some references?



why wud i be denouncing that? if a man is evil and living in sin is this lack of God in his life? yes! so i dont know wat you mean by that.



Maybe u didnt understand, Jesus didnt come so the curse of sin could be lifted in physical life, He came to pay the eternal punishemnt for sin, he came so that when we pass through to the spiritual world, and we are standing before God, we will not have to answer for the wrongs we have did, but only if we die believing, following and accepting his son Jesus as our saviour. You can understand that. The curse of sin in this life is not important, its not a punishment, you are speaking as if christians are burdoned with this huge curse, when really we are the most blessed people alive to know someone like Jesus Christ.



Yes our physical bodies die, isnt that obvious? But what happens to our spirit? When paul wrote the wages of sin is death he didnt mean physically dyeing!



My answer has been simple alough i dont expect u to accept any answer right or wrong.

God bless

Salaam,

Actually it is kind of funny when you ask for refernce.
May i ask do you then say god has never forgiven people when they have been cursed?

why then are we having this conversation?
LOLOL..Casue arent you very sure that you are forgiven adn that the curse of eternal death is lifted from you?


As for denouncing the old prophets i asked you casue of your words..."lack of good or lack of god...but the old propehts were guided by god...or do you denounce their teaching to their individual races with divine teaching?

Are they then not with god?

Again you make a mention about physical and spiritual forgivness...
Again i reiterate that is just a notion,a man made notion now where proven.
for the simple question is ,why would forgive a person or people "SPIRTUALLY" but leave them the curse/pain for generations to come?

Is god forgivness only after death or before?


As for what paul wrote,when you say he dont mean it is not physical death,can you post the relevant verses thanks..

As for Romans 6:23 i ahve read the chapter and the wages of sin is death do mena physical death unless you are saying that after you die there is still another death..

Maybe for you your answer is simple but for an outsider looking in with a different perspective your answer is very disconcerting and disconcerted.
Like i said my inital question is simple..why would god forgive but still curse.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

i havnt forgot to answer, i will whithin the next cuple of days, please bare with me.

God bless

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Sin's curse came upon the human race because Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command in the Garden of Eden not to eat from the tree - "for when you eat of it you will surely die" (Genesis 2:16-17). The immediate consequence of their sin was that they died spiritually, and their bodies began the dying process which eventually resulted in physical death. Their sin (and the resulting death) has been passed from Adam and Eve to each individual in every generation to this day (Romans 3:23).

The only remedy for sin is the free gift of eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ. "God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish (or die spiritually) but have eternal life" (John 3:16; see also John 5:24). At the moment a sinner believes that Jesus Christ died for his sin, that person is born again and becomes a new person in Him (John 3:3). The old sinful nature remains, but by His power within a believer is able to live for Him. (This is explained in Romans 8.)

All Christians look forward to the day when we will be in the Savior's presence, and only then will the stain and curse of sin no longer affect us. "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away" (Revelation 21:1-4).

God bless

 

[Umar001]

Peace be upon those who follow guidance,

It seems in the confusion of this thread some parts have been overlooked, I will repost my question,

From the above quote it seems to me your saying that, the effect of sin, things like people dying and women giving birth in pain are only happening because the person that died had sinned and the woman who gives birth in pain has sinned.

But if they had not sinned they wouldnt die or give birth in pain.

Is this a right understanding of your view point?

Also Dusk I believe your on holiday/pilgrimage, I hope you get this when you come back,

so it seems that "pains in childbearing" are not a matter of personal sin. you may be "sinless" and still it will hurt (as long as you are alive)

So whether a person has sinned or not they still recieve the punishment of a sinner?

Also to alot of people who seem to use as evidence the fact that Adam and Eve tried to hide from G-d as evidence of the death of their spirit, do you mean to say that if someone's spirit is dead they wear clothes? So Jesus whom was G-d, should have been walking around naked and not hiding?

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

From the above quote it seems to me your saying that, the effect of sin, things like people dying and women giving birth in pain are only happening because the person that died had sinned and the woman who gives birth in pain has sinned.

But if they had not sinned they wouldnt die or give birth in pain.

Is this a right understanding of your view point?

Yes, im saying we inherited the same sinful nature of Adam and Eve, and if they had not sinned they would have not brought death or birth pain into the world.

But i wud like to say now i will be leaving this forum until i have studied the bible fully, i dont feel i have the right to defend Gods word until i study it properly. If im going to do something i want to do it right, and i want to answer every single question that is possible to be answered about God.

So it was nice to speak to yous and im sure i will be back.

May you experience Jesus as the Christ

God bless

Sean

 

[Umar001]

Yes, im saying we inherited the same sinful nature of Adam and Eve, and if they had not sinned they would have not brought death or birth pain into the world.

But i wud like to say now i will be leaving this forum until i have studied the bible fully, i dont feel i have the right to defend Gods word until i study it properly. If im going to do something i want to do it right, and i want to answer every single question that is possible to be answered about God.

So it was nice to speak to yous and im sure i will be back.

May you experience Jesus as the Christ

God bless

Sean

Hey bro well take care and pm me anytime you wish, no problem, I admire your descion and I hope you learn and come and teach us.

I hope you also experiences Jesus as the Christ, and Muhammad as G-ds servant and messenger.

May G-d bless and guide me and you

Nice having met ya Sean take care bro,

Peace

 

[Zulkiflim]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Salaam,

Sean nice talking to you too..

Inshallah when you learn more of the bible more and more of its corruption will be mor apparent to you.

Inshallah...

As again,i would ask any chrisitan here...

Do you believe in a god that say he forgives but still punishes??

 

[Phil12123]

As again,i would ask any chrisitan here...

Do you believe in a god that say he forgives but still punishes??

You are a broken record. You've heard your question answered again and again and refuse to accept the answers. You are like the person in so many of the Proverbs:

Proverbs 12:
15. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he who heeds counsel is wise.

You are not the one who heeds counsel.

Proverbs 15:
32. He who disdains instruction despises his own soul, but he who heeds reproof gets understanding.

And you do not heed reproof. So I leave you to your folly.

Peace

 

[Zulkiflim]

You are a broken record. You've heard your question answered again and again and refuse to accept the answers. You are like the person in so many of the Proverbs:

Proverbs 12:
15. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he who heeds counsel is wise.

You are not the one who heeds counsel.

Proverbs 15:
32. He who disdains instruction despises his own soul, but he who heeds reproof gets understanding.

And you do not heed reproof. So I leave you to your folly.

Peace

Salaam,

I am not broken record..
I ask for the question has not been answered,as sean has shown he want to learn more so that he cna answer better when faced with the same question again and again..

So far many chrisitan here try to prove that jesus supposed death forgave sin but not the curse of original sin.
They say it is a spirtiual forgiveness but when i counter with what the bible itself say they repeat agian it is just spritual forgiveness.

So if you are bale to tell me,wheat you are forgiven for by jesus death do tell me,is it spiritual or physical and spiritual?

 

[albee]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Salaam,

Sean nice talking to you too..

Inshallah when you learn more of the bible more and more of its corruption will be mor apparent to you.

Inshallah...

As again,i would ask any chrisitan here...

Do you believe in a god that say he forgives but still punishes??

Greetings

It is written:
"For this they (scoffers)willfully forget:that by the word of God the heavens were of old,and the earth standing out of water and in the water, that the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water."

It is written also:

"The Lord .........is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance"

Albee

 

[Zulkiflim]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Greetings

It is written:
"For this they (scoffers)willfully forget:that by the word of God the heavens were of old,and the earth standing out of water and in the water, that the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water."

It is written also:

"The Lord .........is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance"

Albee

Salaam,

alhamdulilah now tell me,from which apostle does that come from?

gospel according to _______(pls put name in the blanks)

thanks for us we revere Prophet jesus as and never would dare mock him nor what he would say.

"the pen of scribes would speak the lie"

 

[albee]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Salaam,

alhamdulilah now tell me,from which apostle does that come from?

gospel according to _______(pls put name in the blanks)

thanks for us we revere Prophet jesus as and never would dare mock him nor what he would say.

"the pen of scribes would speak the lie"

greetings,

Both verses I quoted were written by the apostle of Jesus Christ, Peter, in his 2nd letter. He was specifically writing about the last days leading up to thr return of Jesus.
The point I was making was that Peter, who was one of the original 12 disciples of Jesus, certainly beleived in a God who both punishes the unrepentant,unbeleiving sinner but forgives the penitent sinner.
This is made clear by these 2 verses, for Peter is reminding his readers that God once flooded the world, but would prefer men to come to beleif in Him and repent before this world is destroyed the 2nd time.

Albee

 

[albee]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Salaam,

alhamdulilah now tell me,from which apostle does that come from?

gospel according to _______(pls put name in the blanks)

thanks for us we revere Prophet jesus as and never would dare mock him nor what he would say.

"the pen of scribes would speak the lie"

greetings,

Both verses I quoted were written by the apostle of Jesus Christ, Peter, in his 2nd letter. He was specifically writing about the last days leading up to thr return of Jesus.
The point I was making was that Peter, who was one of the original 12 disciples of Jesus, certainly beleived in a God who both punishes the unrepentant,unbeleiving sinner but forgives the penitent sinner.
This is made clear by these 2 verses, for Peter is reminding his readers that God once flooded the world, but would prefer men to come to beleif in Him and repent before this world is destroyed the 2nd time.

Albee

 

[ZOREENA]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

What had the serpent to do with it.....anything??? And some Catholics have a Christining whic is a sacrament to absolve oringinal sing from the baby...I think thatz rite!! Altho if original sin was based on Jesus dying for the sins and that...then why he do it for if the kids wer still gona be born into sin!!

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

hi guys, just back to see what your views on this is....

I believe God punishes evil, and i believe a good judge does not let evil go unpunished, as most of you know.

Now you guys say that allah is all merciful, and i assume yous say he is all rightous, now doesnt unpunished evil show a lack of rightousness? it does to me, and im sure it does to you.

Like the point i have made before, if a man brakes the law and is willing to repent of his evil deeds, should the mans evil crimes be unpunished? even us sinners punish sin wether they are repentant or not, so shouldnt an all rightous God even more punish evil?

Then u say again but allah is also merciful, but i say that allah lacks rightousness in this case, and i say Jesus Christ shows a rightous God punishing sin for us, a rightous and just God who loves us enough to give us his everything. Jesus was not forced to the cross, he choose it because he though we were wirht dying for. Look closer guys.

God bless

 

[Zulkiflim]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

greetings,

Both verses I quoted were written by the apostle of Jesus Christ, Peter, in his 2nd letter. He was specifically writing about the last days leading up to thr return of Jesus.
The point I was making was that Peter, who was one of the original 12 disciples of Jesus, certainly beleived in a God who both punishes the unrepentant,unbeleiving sinner but forgives the penitent sinner.
This is made clear by these 2 verses, for Peter is reminding his readers that God once flooded the world, but would prefer men to come to beleif in Him and repent before this world is destroyed the 2nd time.

Albee

Salaam,

May i ask when was the world destroyed the first time?
are you referring tot he great flood in the time of Noah?

you do know that the flood only covered a portion of the world and not the entire world.

a question,do you beleive in all paul has to say?
even when he say do not belive him?