Why are Islams freedom fighters firing at there brothers and sisters!?!

[sameer]

Oh yes in urban areas fire is exchanged, but the rockets are always fired at civilians.

QUOTE]
If the rockets are fired at civilians...then how come there are more soldier deaths than civilian? were the IDF hiding amongst the civilians?

 

[sameer]

Israeli soldiers don't hide in civilian areas like Hezbollah.

no they hide in the skies and the seas and inside tanks where the Hezbollah cant reach or harm them., and fire their rockets to kill civilians, hezbola and everything else...so when ever the war stop..the ppl who fled have nothing to return to.

 

[Isaac]

brother fishman, you may want to re-phrase your commenst about "all" mujaideen being corrupt, because that is a very big statement to make. Yes there are those that are not from what i see and hear fighting in accordance to the sharia rulings, and these are the ones that are made apparent to us by the media oulets. But how comes you never hear or see those mujahideen that are fighting in accordance to the sunnah of muhammed pbuh and the sharia of allah. Maybe because it would mentally destroy the people to see those that they call terrorist treating their prisoners with respect and mercy.

So the point im making is please try not to generlise.

And brother zubair, what makes you think they are fighting in revenge and not for the sake of allah. Because if there land is being attacked and their people are bring killed, according to the sharia ruling jihad becomes fard ain on the people in the land. And this is the rule of allah, so unless they come out and opelny say they are not fighting for the sake of allah, its a bit wild to say they are fighting for another cause. You say revenge, define revenge and its ruling in sharia.

 

[sameer]

Hezbollah is not doing anything fisabilillah, what they are doing, they are doing for revenge.

how do u know this? how do u know what is in the heart of the young soldiers fighting for their country/ love ones etc. Is it not in the part of ALlah to fight to protect ure family if u are being invaded or oppressed? Maybe there are soldiers fighting for this reason only...but u feel the need to judge them...or did u forget that we all will face judgement by the only one who is in a postion to judge?

 

[sameer]

brother fishman, you may want to re-phrase your commenst about "all" mujaideen being corrupt, because that is a very big statement to make. Yes there are those that are not from what i see and hear fighting in accordance to the sharia rulings, and these are the ones that are made apparent to us by the media oulets. But how comes you never hear or see those mujahideen that are fighting in accordance to the sunnah of muhammed pbuh and the sharia of allah. Maybe because it would mentally destroy the people to see those that they call terrorist treating their prisoners with respect and mercy.

So the point im making is please try not to generlise.

And brother zubair, what makes you think they are fighting in revenge and not for the sake of allah. Because if there land is being attacked and their people are bring killed, according to the sharia ruling jihad becomes fard ain on the people in the land. And this is the rule of allah, so unless they come out and opelny say they are not fighting for the sake of allah, its a bit wild to say they are fighting for another cause. You say revenge, define revenge and its ruling in sharia.

Well said brother.... my point exactly.

 

[adi8putra]

It does but you have to ask what is the proportion of civilians killed to the amount of explosives dropped.

What do you mean by that? Are u impying that the life of the lebanese civilians r worthless? That they r indeed fair game? Is that what u r trying 2 imply? I'm simply tired of all of these rhetorics. ALL LIFE ARE PRECIOUS! There r no such things as `proportion of civilains killed' or other words to describe it. Life r not mere statistics! Ask that to all of the mothers of these world, all of them will reply just the same. It took 9 months for a soul to be conceived, and it just take plain hatred and prejudice to destroy them all. I'm against all of these killings, be it from either the Lebanese or the Israeli's side.

Of course there is a problem here: 1. the Israeli Army does not hide and it fights in the open

Wow dude! what else do u expect. Someone from the other thread r implying that Israel is the FIFTH mightiest armies in the world. It hv sophisticated weaponries, all supplied by United States of America. If any other Arab's countries can't even stand against Israel in any open warfare (I'm just making an example here, nor did I want the Arab countries to get involved in these war...:heated: ), what do u expect the chances of a rag tag armies of Hezbollah in an open warfare? Do u take Hezbollah as an idiot?

how do you know who is a civilian or not in Lebanon? Hezbollah dresses like civilians and hides among them. If a Hezbollah man dies in civilian clothes who is to say whether he was a fighter or not?

It dont take a genius to differentiate Hezbollah from the rests of the victims, who r mainly woman, old folks and childrens... Especially childrens! What kind of arguments r these? Again, r u implying that this is indeed a justification for Israel to blatantly causing endless misery and carnage to Lebanon? Is the END justifies the MEANS? If your answer is yes, then u r no better that the one that u r accusing now.......!:uhwhat

The question remains: is there a moral justification for firing missiles that can only kill civilians? Hezbollah thinks so. May I ask if you think this is Islamic?

What kind of morality r u talking? What made Israel any different than Hezbollah? Hezbollah is firing crude missile into Israel, hoping on chances for it to landed on some populated area. Meanwhile, Israel is firing precision guided missiles and bombs to systematically destroyed Lebanon as a whole. What kind of morality is this? What Hezbollah did is NOT in principles with Islamic morality, as no where in islam that says killing innocent civilians are justified! There is no such things as the end justified the means in Islam. But again, u r missing the whole point here! The whole thing is not about Islam but rather about humanity! This crisis transcends into all boundaries. It is just not about Islam. It's about the whole muslim, christian, druze and other human being in Lebanon being victimised, just bcoz they happened 2 be a Lebanese.

Last, i'm against these war. I DO NOT APPROVED the action of Hezbollah, and NEITHER DO I APPROVE the reaction of Israel. But, if Israel continue with its offensive against the innocent civilians, I'm afraid that most people will end up by supporting Hezbollah. So, the cycle never ends, really. That's 4 u 2 ponder.

 

[sameer]

Are there israel military bases in Haifa? seems so.....so then by some of the logic used by the israeli supporters that Hezbollah hides amongst civilians and has bases in civilain cities and that they deserved to be bomb can also be applied to Haifa?

Haifa Airport ("U. Micheali")
(Bacha 21). Former Ottoman Turkish airfield in WW1, then rebuilt in 1934 as civil flying field. RAF base in WW2, to IDF/AF in May 1948. Located at Kishon Harbour, north of Haifa, on the coast of North East Israel. ICAO Code: LLHA. Location coordinates: N32 48.6 E035 02.6, elevation 28 ft (9m). One runway 16/34 degrees of 4183 ft (1275 m) length. The home of the IDF/AF Technical School. Hosts a permanent AB212 detachment and has a wartime role as an emergency airfield. The Haifa Bay area houses several military installations

http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/waf/israel/iafbase.htm

Just two hours after the fatal attack in Haifa, a second barrage of rockets landed in the city's port area and Nahariya. A third barrage hit the Haifa area on Sunday afternoon. Nobody was wounded in that attack. Air raid sirens had sounded immediately before the Katyushas hit. Fifteen soldiers suffered from smoke inhalation Sunday night after a Katyusha rocket landed near a military base in the North.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150886016742&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Haifa boasts a naval base, a shipping port and oil refineries, but the vulnerability of Israel's third-largest city to Hezbollah rocket salvos has taken some residents by surprise.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20060718-095125-1567r.htm

 

[Geronimo]

There seems to be an awful lot of muslims out there that go against islam. Everytime a kafir bring up bad things done by muslims to non muslims the arguement is "What they are doing is against Islam! But I can relate! Death to the zionista and America!". These acts are becoming more and more which makes me wonder, if all of these people are doing things that are against Islam are they truelly muslim? If they are then we has to be a problem within Islam that it allows these acts and still allow these people to call themselves muslim. If they are not muslim then that 1 billion number is pure bs.

 

[Geronimo]

Are there israel military bases in Haifa? seems so.....so then by some of the logic used by the israeli supporters that Hezbollah hides amongst civilians and has bases in civilain cities and that they deserved to be bomb can also be applied to Haifa?

Haifa Airport ("U. Micheali")
(Bacha 21). Former Ottoman Turkish airfield in WW1, then rebuilt in 1934 as civil flying field. RAF base in WW2, to IDF/AF in May 1948. Located at Kishon Harbour, north of Haifa, on the coast of North East Israel. ICAO Code: LLHA. Location coordinates: N32 48.6 E035 02.6, elevation 28 ft (9m). One runway 16/34 degrees of 4183 ft (1275 m) length. The home of the IDF/AF Technical School. Hosts a permanent AB212 detachment and has a wartime role as an emergency airfield. The Haifa Bay area houses several military installations

http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/waf/israel/iafbase.htm

Just two hours after the fatal attack in Haifa, a second barrage of rockets landed in the city's port area and Nahariya. A third barrage hit the Haifa area on Sunday afternoon. Nobody was wounded in that attack. Air raid sirens had sounded immediately before the Katyushas hit. Fifteen soldiers suffered from smoke inhalation Sunday night after a Katyusha rocket landed near a military base in the North.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150886016742&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Haifa boasts a naval base, a shipping port and oil refineries, but the vulnerability of Israel's third-largest city to Hezbollah rocket salvos has taken some residents by surprise.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20060718-095125-1567r.htm

But these assets are close enough and the rockets inaccurate enough that it put civilians in danger. So according to your logic these targets should be off limits because innocents will get hurt or does it not matter because they are kaffirs?

 

[lavikor201]

99% of the damage from these rockets is towards civilians. Are there many bases in Nazareth where a little Muslims girl was slaughtered by the Hezbollah terrorists who could not care less about there own people. To Hezbollah muslims may be sacrificed to destroy the Jews.

 

[sameer]

There seems to be an awful lot of muslims out there that go against islam. Everytime a kafir bring up bad things done by muslims to non muslims the arguement is "What they are doing is against Islam! But I can relate! Death to the zionista and America!". These acts are becoming more and more which makes me wonder, if all of these people are doing things that are against Islam are they truelly muslim? If they are then we has to be a problem within Islam that it allows these acts and still allow these people to call themselves muslim. If they are not muslim then that 1 billion number is pure bs.

Same can be said about Christianity and Judahism. But u dont see thewhole world attacking Christianity and Judahism whenever they do crap...oh yeah..they just change their "religous laws" to justify their actions. Are they still christians or what ever?

 

[sameer]

99% of the damage from these rockets is towards civilians. Are there many bases in Nazareth where a little Muslims girl was slaughtered by the Hezbollah terrorists who could not care less about there own people. To Hezbollah muslims may be sacrificed to destroy the Jews.

Dosent the same apply to the jews? that few jews and many muslims/ non jews be sacrificed to expand Israel?

 

[Geronimo]

Same can be said about Christianity and Judahism. But u dont see thewhole world attacking Christianity and Judahism whenever they do crap...oh yeah..they just change their "religous laws" to justify their actions. Are they still christians or what ever?

How many buses have Christians blown up? How many christians go around saying death to Mecca and Medina? When a Jew or a Christian does something that is horrific (like Timothy McViegh) it is condemned loudly and punished. In the muslim world they are held up as warrior martyrs (Zaqwari)

 

[Geronimo]

Dosent the same apply to the jews? that few jews and many muslims/ non jews be sacrificed to expand Israel?

Giving back Gaza and Southern Lebanon is a hell of a way to expand:rollseyes

 

[sameer]

But these assets are close enough and the rockets inaccurate enough that it put civilians in danger. So according to your logic these targets should be off limits because innocents will get hurt or does it not matter because they are kaffirs?

I never said that it is ok for kaffirs to be hurt as u are implying...but on the other hand u and ure supporters keep Justifying israel killig of innocnets beacuse of the Hezbollah bases in lebanon. Then u argue that innocents are being killed in Haifa even though there are bases there....SO what really is ure Point or where do u stand or where do u draw the line on ure blantant biasness?

 

[HeiGou]

What do you mean by that? Are u impying that the life of the lebanese civilians r worthless? That they r indeed fair game? Is that what u r trying 2 imply? I'm simply tired of all of these rhetorics. ALL LIFE ARE PRECIOUS! There r no such things as `proportion of civilains killed' or other words to describe it. Life r not mere statistics! Ask that to all of the mothers of these world, all of them will reply just the same. It took 9 months for a soul to be conceived, and it just take plain hatred and prejudice to destroy them all. I'm against all of these killings, be it from either the Lebanese or the Israeli's side.

I am trying to make a distinction between what Israel and Hezbollah want to do as opposed to what they actually do. Hezbollah is not, after all, very competent at what it does. It lacks the technology or the numbers. But what counts is not so much what they do as what they are trying to do.

Let me join you in condemning all intentional killings.

Wow dude! what else do u expect. Someone from the other thread r implying that Israel is the FIFTH mightiest armies in the world. It hv sophisticated weaponries, all supplied by United States of America. If any other Arab's countries can't even stand against Israel in any open warfare (I'm just making an example here, nor did I want the Arab countries to get involved in these war...:heated: ), what do u expect the chances of a rag tag armies of Hezbollah in an open warfare? Do u take Hezbollah as an idiot?

I expect them not to fight.

It dont take a genius to differentiate Hezbollah from the rests of the victims, who r mainly woman, old folks and childrens... Especially childrens!

I am not convinced most of their victims are children, much less that they are mainly women, the old and children. What is your evidence of that?

What kind of arguments r these? Again, r u implying that this is indeed a justification for Israel to blatantly causing endless misery and carnage to Lebanon? Is the END justifies the MEANS? If your answer is yes, then u r no better that the one that u r accusing now.......!:uhwhat

Of course some ends justify some means. Whether this one does or not I do not know. I know that Hezbollah attacked Israel and Lebanon is not doing enough to stop them.

What kind of morality r u talking? What made Israel any different than Hezbollah? Hezbollah is firing crude missile into Israel, hoping on chances for it to landed on some populated area. Meanwhile, Israel is firing precision guided missiles and bombs to systematically destroyed Lebanon as a whole. What kind of morality is this?

I am surprised that you think that reflects well on Hwzbollah. Surely if they are firing crude missiles into Israel hoping to kill civilians, they are doing a bad thing?

Last, i'm against these war. I DO NOT APPROVED the action of Hezbollah, and NEITHER DO I APPROVE the reaction of Israel. But, if Israel continue with its offensive against the innocent civilians, I'm afraid that most people will end up by supporting Hezbollah. So, the cycle never ends, really. That's 4 u 2 ponder.

I think that people support Hezbollah anyway.

 

[adi8putra]

There seems to be an awful lot of muslims out there that go against islam. Everytime a kafir bring up bad things done by muslims to non muslims the arguement is "What they are doing is against Islam! But I can relate! Death to the zionista and America!". These acts are becoming more and more which makes me wonder, if all of these people are doing things that are against Islam are they truelly muslim? If they are then we has to be a problem within Islam that it allows these acts and still allow these people to call themselves muslim. If they are not muslim then that 1 billion number is pure bs.

who said so? among the 1 billion plus of muslim in the world, most r just peace loving people. Who r contented with their lives & never bothered to cause mischiefs onto others. But, as in any society, there will always be a handfull of minority who will go to the extreme. In this case, the muslims r no different. so, how can u pass remarks on the action of a handful minority? that is very prejudice in nature!

 

[lavikor201]

I never said that it is ok for kaffirs to be hurt as u are implying...but on the other hand u and ure supporters keep Justifying israel killig of innocnets beacuse of the Hezbollah bases in lebanon. Then u argue that innocents are being killed in Haifa even though there are bases there....SO what really is ure Point or where do u stand or where do u draw the line on ure blantant biasness?

This should not even be an argument. According to UN Security Council Resolution 1559, it is the responsibility of the Lebanese government to disarm Hezbollah and to assert Lebanese sovereignty in southern Lebanon. Israel a member of the UN is being effected by the fact that Lebonon is ignorant enough to not follow UN resolutions.

Israel a member of the UN is enforcing a UN resolution.

Hezbollah on the other hand could care less about the UN.

The UN people are observers so they cannot fight back. Hezbollah is using UN observing posts as human shields. The same way they use women and children!!!!

That UN post, in the words of the Canadian peacekeeper who was killed there, was being used by Hezbollah as cover. As retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie, interviewed on CBC radio, explained:


"We received emails from [the Canadian peacekeeper who was killed at the UN post] a few days ago, and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted. Now that's veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished for it."
Furthermore, Hezbollah has attacked UNIFIL observers repeatedly this week. From the UN's own press releases:


In the last 24 hours... Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Marwahin, Alma Ash Shab, Bra****, and At Tiri. (27 July 2006)

One unarmed UN military observer, a member of the Observer Group Lebanon (OGL), was seriously wounded by small arms fire in the patrol base in the Marun Al Ras area yesterday afternoon. According to preliminary reports, the fire originated from the Hezbollah side during an exchange with the IDF. He was evacuated by the UN to the Israeli side, from where he was taken by an IDF ambulance helicopter to a hospital in Haifa. He was operated on, and his condition is now reported as stable. (24 July 2006)
Note that the UN observer was injured badly enough to be evacuated to an Israeli hospital -- where they saved his life. Kofi Annan's reaction? Not a word of condemnation against Hezbollah, and not a word of gratitude for Israel's rescue of the UN observer.

 

[sameer]

How many buses have Christians blown up? How many christians go around saying death to Mecca and Medina? When a Jew or a Christian does something that is horrific (like Timothy McViegh) it is condemned loudly and punished. In the muslim world they are held up as warrior martyrs (Zaqwari)

So are u saying that only muslims blow up buses? and commit murders etc? check ure country and see who the most amount of murders are commited by whom?

What about the Irish? what about the other terrorist act around hte world that are not commited by muslims? what about david koresh and Waco texas? who were the terrorist/ killers- not the federal officials?

ALso....do u know all the muslims? to say that they donnot condemn terroist acts? or do u look at the reaction of the muslims on CNN when ever soemthing happens.... Do u not know they can be palying a tape from file over and over to get across the message that they want? Have u not heard of hollywood and actors and doctoring of tapes?
Offcourse u would think this is crap..after all u think u know it all

 

[Geronimo]

I never said that it is ok for kaffirs to be hurt as u are implying...but on the other hand u and ure supporters keep Justifying israel killig of innocnets beacuse of the Hezbollah bases in lebanon. Then u argue that innocents are being killed in Haifa even though there are bases there....SO what really is ure Point or where do u stand or where do u draw the line on ure blantant biasness?

Hezbollah has military assets in the civilian population. Those assets are legitimate targets. If civilians get killed their blood is on Hezbollah's hand. If Hezbollah is trying to hit military targets then they are legitimate targets also