Holocaust VS Holy Land

[Zulkiflim]

Of course there is. The New Testament, and the Quran are both false revalations according to Judaism. Therefore, proving our faith will finally make the world clear by showing that there was no other word from G-d than the Torah.

[PIE]Salaam,

Actually the Quran the unchaged book,say clearly that both your book are changed to suit your needs.[/PIE]



In many cases there were Arab riots, ect that did not allow freedom of worship in the Holy Land. The Arabs refused to let Jews pray at the Western Wall for example... so was there freedom of religion, in many cases no.

The Hebron massacre refers to the violent destruction of the ancient Jewish community of Hebron by Arab rioters in late August of 1929.

In the summer of 1929, a long-running dispute between Muslims and Jews over access to the Western Wall in Jerusalem became steadily more violent, and erupted in a series of Arab riots against Jews during a week in late August. During the week of riots, 133 Jews were killed and 339 wounded (mostly by Arabs).

[PIE]So as you say in "many cases" no,but why dont you post the link for the entire "accusation"..It would be itnersting to read form your point of view,of course there are always two sides of the same story.
[/PIE]


The Temple was holy because the Mitzvot we could accomplish in it, as well as the Arc which the Moshiach will show us where it is.

[PIE]As i said,i agree that the templ is holy DUE to the Arc,but why do you now pray to the wall? a piece of stone?
As i said before,you pray to the wall not for closeness to god but as a linkt o a ONCE glorious path that was destroyed TWICE.
and will be destroyed again.[/PIE]



The Tabernacle was just a substitution until the temple could be built.

[PIE]That dont answer the question,is the area around where the tabernacle is situated be considered HOLY?
Is every rock grain and stone where the tabernacle is set up be considered holy after the tabernacle is no longer there?

what is the difference between the tabernacle and the temple?
One fixed the other not...
So what is the commonality between the two?

the arc of the covenant or the seat of mercy.

If the elder jews noted down the location of where the tabernacle were erected,would you pray at the stones and sand?



[/PIE]


Here is a little something on the Western Wall, educate youself:

Jews have prayed at the Western Wall for two thousand years, believing that that spot has greater holiness than any other accessible place on Earth, or the fourth holiest overall, after the Holy of Holies, the rest of the Temple area, and the Courtyard, and that God is nearby listening to their prayers. The tradition of placing prayer written on the small piece of paper into a crack in the Wall goes back thousands of years. Included in the thrice daily Jewish prayers are fervent pleas that God return to the Land of Israel, ingather all the Jewish exiles, rebuild the Third Temple, and bring the messianic era with the arrival of Jewish Messiah (Mashiach).

The Western Wall is holy to the Jewish people because this wall is part of a wall that encompasses the Temple Mount along with the southern and eastern sections. This encompassing wall is thought to be the only remnant of the Temple in Jerusalem and the closest site to the "Holy of Holies", the most holy site in Judaism. Of the three wall sections, eastern, southern and western, the western is the traditional site of prayer.

Holy in Islam?
The site is also holy to Muslims, who believe Solomon to be a prophet. Muslims believe that Muhammad made a spiritual journey to Jerusalem in 620 CE on a winged beast named al-Buraq, which is referred to as Isra and Mi'raj. While there, it is believed he tethered the horse to a wall, which some Muslims believe to be the Western wall. Hence the Arabic name for the wall is the al-Buraq Wall. To commemorate the same belief, in 687 AD Muslims built the Dome of the Rock and the nearby Al-Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount, encompassed by the wall.

This theory however is heavily disputed. For example, in the "Encyclopedia of Islam," there is no mention of the Western Wall in relation to Al-Burak. In the entry under Hara al Sharif, the wall is called the "Wailing Wall" without any reference to it's being sacred to Islam. Official guidebooks issued by the Waqf as recently as 1990 say nothing about the Western Wall being significant to Islam

[PIE]Good read but again it seems you read it but dont udnerstand it or maybe you want to perceive the wall a THING to be holy..

Now key word, that are in red
Why dotn you re read it agian...thanks..

[/PIE]

 

[lavikor201]

According to Judaism's religious texts, when the legions of Titus destroyed the Temple, only a part of an outer court-yard "western wall" remained standing. Jewish texts teach that Titus left it as a bitter reminder to the Jews that Rome had vanquished Judea. The Jews, however, attributed it to a promise made by G-d that some part of the holy Temple would be left standing as a sign of G-d's unbroken bond with the Jewish people in spite of the catastrophes which had befallen them.

 

[Zulkiflim]

According to Judaism's religious texts, when the legions of Titus destroyed the Temple, only a part of an outer court-yard "western wall" remained standing. Jewish texts teach that Titus left it as a bitter reminder to the Jews that Rome had vanquished Judea. The Jews, however, attributed it to a promise made by G-d that some part of the holy Temple would be left standing as a sign of G-d's unbroken bond with the Jewish people in spite of the catastrophes which had befallen them.

Salaam,

Yes that is correct the temple was destroyed and the wall remain as a testament to titus might and the jewish loss.

But may i ask,do you know why titus attacked the jews?

Also,as again Jews "attributed" it with a sign fro a continuity form god..
So it is just a feel good story.

As i have maintained,no where does the torah say that the sotnes of the temple are holy,only what is inside and that is the Arc of the Covenant.

Your desire to worship this wall show that you are not worshipping god but for the idea that your glorious path will return.

As always from a people who want a power and greatness,it will never be enough and god will alwyas be aservant to their deisres.
And when that god does not give,they fall out of faith.

i would ask you to remember the time when the jews were taken out of egypt with Allah blessing and after witnessing so many miracles they still after just af ew day worshipped a calf...a golden calf...

So be careful of those who desires miracles to confrim faith,for their want will never be enough..

So continue to worship the wall,a wall.....sad.......

 

[lavikor201]

Your desire to worship this wall show that you are not worshipping god but for the idea that your glorious path will return.

Your very laughable. You don't have even a conception of what your talking about. You say we 'worship' the wall.

The Wall is a symbol that G-d is still with the Jews, and that G-d will never let the Arab world destroy the Jews.

Your to blind to see it.

i would ask you to remember the time when the jews were taken out of egypt with Allah blessing and after witnessing so many miracles they still after just af ew day worshipped a calf...a golden calf...

Those were the tribe of the Hebrews, not the Jews. Most of the Hebrews never became Jews, and never went to the Holy Land.

The Jews were the ones who recieved the Torah from G-d. All the Hebrews did not.

Huge difference. You don;t have a grasp on what you speak about.


Islam and Christianity will always try and convert and try and become powerful, but the Jewish people do not need to strive to be powerful. We will always be here on earth no matter who tries to destroy us, because of our covanent with G-d, that many religions try to destroy.

 

[Lamaggad]

Islam and Christianity will always try and convert and try and become powerful, but the Jewish people do not need to strive to be powerful. We will always be here on earth no matter who tries to destroy us, because of our covanent with G-d, that many religions try to destroy.

Dude... no body is trying to destroy you, just back away from the Muslims lands and stop killing our people...
you're religion is in our Qur'an, which mean YES Judaism EXIST...

israel's power is nothing but piece of weapons, Army and money... that's all what Jews care about to be powerful, israel doesn't need people to believe in them so they can be powerful, israel need weapons and wars so they can threaten people to accept their false existence in a Muslim country.

we are powerful bcz of what we believ in "Islam", you guys are powerful bcz of some high tech weapons, Bulldozers, and Money..

Islam well never fall, but any body can loose money, bulldozers can be destroyed like what Hezb Allah is doing, weapons same thing can be destroyed...

israel is nothing but a false state

 

[lavikor201]

In 1948, do you know the weapons the Jews had? The Israeli Army did not have much in '48, yet they defeated the whole Arab worlds attack on them.

 

[Zulkiflim]

Your very laughable. You don't have even a conception of what your talking about. You say we 'worship' the wall.

The Wall is a symbol that G-d is still with the Jews, and that G-d will never let the Arab world destroy the Jews.

Your to blind to see it.



Those were the tribe of the Hebrews, not the Jews. Most of the Hebrews never became Jews, and never went to the Holy Land.

The Jews were the ones who recieved the Torah from G-d. All the Hebrews did not.

Huge difference. You don;t have a grasp on what you speak about.


Islam and Christianity will always try and convert and try and become powerful, but the Jewish people do not need to strive to be powerful. We will always be here on earth no matter who tries to destroy us, because of our covanent with G-d, that many religions try to destroy.

Salaam,

Again tell me do you put word into your god mouth or is it what you desire?

You think the wall symblises continuity,...

you think that the wall is a symbol that god is with the jew.

In all that is "YOU THINK",,YOU THINK<YOU THINK

May i ask,what else do you think your your god should do to please you?

And if god suddenly tell you that you are wrong and punish you,would you still say that is your god?



And as for the worship of the golden calf,i think you need to understand the reson for the story..

Men of what ever race or what ever reliogn,,,such as yourself,require things to beleive in,,and when they cannot believe in the unseen they worship a calf,,a golden calf..

And in your case,becasue of your lack of faith you need to beleive that god is with you becasue of the wall..

You need to beleive in the wall to believe in god.
you need to beleive in the wall.to think that god is with you

 

[lavikor201]

Your unbelievably baby like rant that has no fact and no reason was pretty amusing.

First where did I say 'I think' once in the post you quoted.

Second, The Wall is one of the holiest sites in Judaism you obviously don't have the capacity to understand why, accept it, mock, I could not care less. Your opinion is meaningless to me because of your ignorance.

 

[جوري]

what does this have to do with the price of beans?

everything for someone with a thiamine deficiency

 

[Lamaggad]

come on you cant be serious. lots of muslims want to destroy Israel.

Majority of Muslims wants to kick those zionists out from the Muslim country specially bcz this state is racist and came with a hate ideology...

if they came in bcz the Holocaust broke the 3rd oath in their Torah...
well we Muslims are going to defend our land bcz that's whats written in our Qur'an.. as simple as that.

they are the one who attacked us, they are the one who destroyed Lebanon and Gaza, they are the baby and women killers.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

bcz this state is racist and came with a hate ideology

How are they rascist.

There are White, Middle Eastern, Black, and Asian Jews in Israel so how exactly are they judging people on race?

 

[جوري]

"Our race is the master race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considred as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet, and serve us as our slaves."

who said it?


Menachem Begin
(Israeli Prime Minister, 1977-1983)
that is how they are racists for starters....

 

[ManchesterFolk]

Now Click here to see that myth completly debunked for what it is... a false quote put into a mans mouth by Jew haters.

False Quotes made up to attack Jews

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21



Save yourself the embarassment and just edit your post of that filthy lie.

I will edit mine then.

 

[جوري]

Hi newbie welcome to the forum... Thanks for posting your various drivel on the site.... we will take it into consideration and change the wrong of our ways...BTW , stop projecting, stop the name calling, ... try not to get emotionally involved with a post.... you want to crusade join the American army... exercise less cognitive conservatism and all will be well in the world by tomorrow

 

[ManchesterFolk]

Are you interested to find where the quote really originated from?

The Chinese Swastika Newsletter made this quote up.

Great source.

 

[جوري]

ok thanks for that.... I don't really care where it came from... I am not a Jew hater... to me they are people of the book... I, however, despise the colonial, settler, apartheid state of Israel... along with many others, Jews included by the way... why don't you relax... my opinion and yours won't challenge nor change the world... it will still be exactly the same tomorrow... maybe a few more dead on the Palestinian or Lebanese side... but don't worry yourself they are all small change for the mighty Israel.... we are digressing.... this is a comparative religion forum... you can take your grievances in world affairs forum... a place where I have lost all interest in posting, you can show the rest the wrong of their ways there....cheers

 

[Zulkiflim]

Your unbelievably baby like rant that has no fact and no reason was pretty amusing.

First where did I say 'I think' once in the post you quoted.

Second, The Wall is one of the holiest sites in Judaism you obviously don't have the capacity to understand why, accept it, mock, I could not care less. Your opinion is meaningless to me because of your ignorance.

Salaam ...

Again i say to you,,,and you dont want to admit it..

WHY IS THE WALL HOLY..
And you asnwered as did Lavikor...
It is a link to a glorious past twice destroyed..

A link to a glorious past..

And i guess you cant asnwer my quesiton if not you wont be doing "baby ranting" accusation.

Let me put it to you in point form.

1) Is the Tabernacle HOLY?
2) Did the tabernacle move about?
5) What made the Tabernacle Holy,was it the alnd it was erected at or the Covenant?
3) Did Jews claim that where ever the tabernacle was erected,that palce is holy?
4) Did the Jews then pray to stones and sand that once was the place of the taberancle?
5) Was the past 2 temple hOLY?
6) What made the temple holy?The land or the Covenant?
7) Were the wall of the Temple Holy?
8) Were the chairs in the temply Holy?
9) Were the plants in the temple holy?


So in all that i am sure you will come to the conclusion that what made the temple HOLY was not the site nor the land nor the buiding..

It is the Covenant,ie the Seat of Mercy.

And here you are worshipping and following a "tradition" of palcing paper into the wailing wall as a prayer.

I wodner when the temple was destroyed did the Jews protect the temple or the covenant?

I guess if you were around back then surely you would have protected the wall,instead of what GOD has deemed Holy,which is the arc of the covenant.

So like the past people who worshipped the golden calf,you now agfain becasue of lack of miracle worship a wall....for miracles.

And no Prophet teaches Idolatry and here you are worshipping a wall...

 

[ManchesterFolk]

In the Old Testament is says to build the Temple where God showed them. And that was the Temple mount. Therefore the only place Jews can complete the ritual laws prescribed to the Temple is on the Temple Mount.

You obviously cannot get that through your head.

 

[Lamaggad]

Salaam ...
WHY IS THE WALL HOLY..
And no Prophet teaches Idolatry and here you are worshipping a wall...

Zulkiflim, calm down man ... he think that the wall if Holy and he worship a wall.. that's his choice as this is his faith weather he can prove it or not...

that's not the biggest issue on earth as you know... our main problem is that Palestine is being ruled by racists who doesn't respect any kind of life in Gaza and west bank...

we want to end the check points, end occupation, end demolishing homes, end killing kids and women... That's what we have to prove to Jews since they don't see our point of view in their media.

we don't want to argue about a wall.

Lavikor have Muslims friends although he think Islam isn't right and completely false..
He is even keeping them in his house to avoid Hezb Allah's rockets ... which is a nice thing from him... and we should thank him for doing that instead of debating about a wall.

 

[Wild Bill]

I'm really wondering, how come Jews give them selves the right to go back to the holy land bcz of the Holocaust that broke the third oath...?!?!?
What about Muslims who doesn't believe in that oath?!? we shouldn't be forced to have them in our land bcz they believe that they are allowed or what ever?!?!

The 'our land' part is where you go wrong. Once you realize that the land does not belong to you, then the rest is easy to understand.