Sikhism

if it was meddled with their wouldnt be the same copy from the start...
if it was written by a Prophet...it wouldnt be flawless....still human.
Only God is flawless. Besides a "true" Prophet would not right it himself.
 
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lol that wasnt my point. Nevermind, i took it differently..=\ If you think thats how the Qur'an was collected all together...ur wrong. It wasn't written down like "Chinese Whispers."
 
Can a Shia muslim please shed light on this please?

''Shias are concerned as per then when Imam Mehdi will decend from Hevan,five Blue Clad,Turbanned people will follow him to restore sprituality.They will be Called Khalasis or librators.''

Does anyone know more about his??
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
I sense sarcasm! - Sikh means 'Learner' so you as a muslim are learning about Islam, so in that sense you'd be called a Sikh too. Unless of course you think you have all the knowldege of Islam, they of course i'd be wrong!

Now back to your point. God makes all the world and along with the creations.
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Im Back!!
:)
Sorry have been a bit busy last few days
What Sarcasm are you refering too mate?

I am making a point.
Ok we may all be 'Learners' but it doesnt change the fact that
In order to ascend or 'merge' with god as you put it we need to be in human form.
Correct me if you believe im wrong, we also need to 'Nam jaap' (recite the divine name of god)
So in order for everyone to 'merge' we must all be practicing sikhism?
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Ok, brother i've not avoided it but you dont seem to grasp what is said in relation to it. :)

All religions were formed by God, but during the process (centuries passing) the sacred scriptures of all the faiths have been corrupted. (now who's going to admit to this) in the Guru Granth Sahib it states this aong with the verse about 'Kuran, Torah, Bible, and Vedas being true. (But before the scriptures were meddled with) Now Muslims claim the Torah and Bible have been meddled with, this is obvious. But you deny the Quran has been meddled with, correct?

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Have you actually sat down and read the Quran / Bible or Torah?

Do you not realise how completeley contrasting they are to the belief's of Sikhism?

Have you not understood the countless people telling you that Islam/Christianity/Judaism ALL BELIEVE IN HELL/HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY?!!!

OK so your telling me, that 'chinese whispers' created a piece of literature that is completly flawless, perfect in terms of poetic and gramatic structure in one of the most comprehensive languages used on the planet and memorised by thousands upon thousands of people the world over WITHOUT A SINGLE DISCREPICY AMONGST THEM?

Do you know how many companions had memorised the Quran at the time of the prophet (saw). For you to say that some of them got it wrong and changed it is ludacrus to assume because somewhere else on the planet we would have a different version!!
 
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Btw - Don't Shia muslims themselves claim the present day Quran is accepted as a changed version? So if mulsims are stating this then why are you claiming it's not?
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
Btw - Don't Shia muslims themselves claim the present day Quran is accepted as a changed version? So if mulsims are stating this then why are you claiming it's not?
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There is quote after quote after quote in the Quran that refutes their belief's but we may wan to open another thread for this. Or there may be another on on here already, i must admit i havnt done allot of digging on this forum as of yet.

But the main thing is how can they believe that Allah (swt) created their religion, perfected it, gave to them a prophet (saw) and a book of decree (Quran) which He (swt) said will not be allowed to be altered until judgement day, and then beleive it was altered?

Hypocrisy I think you'll agree.
Or you wont!!
 
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AvarAllahNoor said:
Btw - Don't Shia muslims themselves claim the present day Quran is accepted as a changed version? So if mulsims are stating this then why are you claiming it's not?
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No the vast vast majority of shias believe in the exact same Quran as we do. Its a proof actually that the qur'an has never chnged. There is no doubt many sects in islam, but all of them beliweve in the one and the same qur'an.
 
Hanif_Revert said:
Have you actually sat down and read the Quran / Bible or Torah?

Do you not realise how completeley contrasting they are to the belief's of Sikhism?

Have you not understood the countless people telling you that Islam/Christianity/Judaism ALL BELIEVE IN HELL/HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY?!!!

OK so your telling me, that 'chinese whispers' created a piece of literature that is completly flawless, perfect in terms of poetic and gramatic structure in one of the most comprehensive languages used on the planet and memorised by thousands upon thousands of people the world over WITHOUT A SINGLE DISCREPICY AMONGST THEM?

Do you know how many companions had memorised the Quran at the time of the prophet (saw). For you to say that some of them got it wrong and changed it is ludacrus to assume because somewhere else on the planet we would have a different version!!
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Calm down brother, as i posted before, Shia/shi'tes believe this too. If muslims themselves are doubting the Kuran, why wouldn't the rest!
 
Hanif_Revert said:
You havnt answered my point. How can their be any animals/plants around if their souls will be in human form as 'learners'?
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That's like saying all the people in the universe are good. - They'll always be people in the circle of reincarnation.
 
BTW - I've noticed my post about the Guru Granth Sahib being the only one written by the Prophets themseves has been deleted. - That's the sign of the truth being exposed, and you're afraid. :giggling:
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
BTW - I've noticed my post about the Guru Granth Sahib being the only one written by the Prophets themseves has been deleted. - That's the sign of the truth being exposed, and you're afraid. :giggling:
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your claim is absolutely false. prophet Moses PBUh wrote the torah down himself after it was revealed to him. Theres nothing special about that, your clutching straws

And i'll say again, shias dont believe the quran has changed. we believe in the one and same quran
 
Mohsin said:
your claim is absolutely false. prophet Moses PBUh wrote the torah down himself after it was revealed to him. Theres nothing special about that, your clutching straws
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Think you'll find, scholars going back to the 2nd century CE, or for an example in medieval times, Ibn Ezra in the 12th century, found troubling evidence that Moses did not in fact write the Torah. For example, there are references in the Torah to Moses in the third person, such as his being modest, or naming Edomite kings (Gen. 36) that were known to have lived after Moses died.

May need to make a thread for this!
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
BTW - I've noticed my post about the Guru Granth Sahib being the only one written by the Prophets themseves has been deleted. - That's the sign of the truth being exposed, and you're afraid. :giggling:
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How does this proove that yours is the 'true' religion?

You havnt bothered to do your research into Islam properly

There have been many debates and books written on the subject, but if you cant get your head around the fact that there are written historical documents that confrim history then there is not much point in bothering to discuss this is there?.

Just try to picture it. 10,000 companions - Memorised most or all of the Quran. (We konw its possible because it is done today.) - How can you say that it could have been changed when compiled?

Not only do we have the quran, but we have the biographies of every single sahaba (companion). Given that most arabs can trace their family roots back for hundreds of generations , and given that we have historcal documents outside of islam confirming the islamic biographies of the sahaba then the odds that it was an change are astronimical.
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
Think you'll find, scholars going back to the 2nd century CE, or for an example in medieval times, Ibn Ezra in the 12th century, found troubling evidence that Moses did not in fact write the Torah. For example, there are references in the Torah to Moses in the third person, such as his being modest, or naming Edomite kings (Gen. 36) that were known to have lived after Moses died.

May need to make a thread for this!
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I think you misunderstood. The torah was revealed to Moses PBUH. Jews believe this, as do muslims and christians. Likewise they all accept that the torah was later destroyed, and had to be re-written from memory. this si where it changed and contradictions/scientific errors came into it, and also the writers who were re-writing from meory spoke about prophet moses' events in the 3rd person. But all 3 semetic religions believe the Torah was revealed to Moses PBUh and he wrote down on the tablet the 10 commandments etc
 
Its funny, An friend of my parents actually tried to say the same things quoting from a 'Penguin' version of the Quran by N.J Dawood, in which the transliterations were close to slander.

I hope when Sikh's and people from other religions decide to read the Quran they do get a transliteration that is actually done by someone who understands the language and doesnt have a alterior agenda.
I recommend either Pickthall or Yusuf Ali
 

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