Sikhism- a continuation of prophet hood?

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I didn't know you were some kind of internationally recognized person to have ability to validate a religion.

Excuse me! YOU asked ME about how we can know what the real religion is and I told you my opinion on the matter. If you don't want me to tell you, next time don't ask me.

Once again, I don't believe you are a universally authorized person to validate or invalidate any religion. So whatever you believe has little or no values to us.

I am a Muslim and I will therefore speak in terms of what I BELIEVE as a Muslim. I have every right to do so.

What does simply believing that they were prophets do? Are you supposed to follow their footsteps in order to prove that you believe in them?

We can learn lessons from their stories. If we do not believe in them, while God and the Prophet have told us about them, than that means we are saying that the prophet and God lied to us in the Quran.

Sikhs may believe or simply say it out of respect that Mohammad Sahib was a prophet just like you believe that Jesus and Moses were prophets but none of the Sikhs can really assume what gurus thought about this. I couldn't find anywhere in Guru Granth Sahib, where it says whether or not Mohammad Sahib or Jesus were prophets. So I am not going to assume what gurus would have said. Whatever you believe in your issue, not a Sikh issue. We can neither agree nor disagree with you without knowing the whole truth.

It is very much a Sikh issue because AvarAllahNoor has said very clearly that Sikhs believe that Prophet Muhammad was a prophet!! Now, I trust him on this matter, but if you disagree with this, then discuss it with him, not me. You two are the sikhs here.

Simple logic. If someone in what we call Hinduism today knew about God, only then they could explain God. If nobody knew about God in Hinduism, the concept of God wouldn't exist in Hinduism. It's simple logic... ;)

I am not here to discuss Hinduism, I simply do not know anything about it.
 
It seems to me they feel that they have right to put down any other religion as this person is doing.

Oh really, can you please indicate to me where exactly I said something negative about sikhism?

If you expect me to pretend I do not believe in the teachings of Islam just to make you happy, let you assure you right now that is not going to happen.

The purpose of this thread is to examine where Sikhism stands according to Islam, given that Sikhs believe that Prophet Muhammad was a real messenger of God.

But I have this feeling that someone said exactly the same about their religion what she is saying about other religion, they would be all upset. So I am trying to stay away from provoking them for any reason at all.

Trust me, I do not get upset at people challenging whether or not the Quran has been changed. Instead, I create a thread about it for discussion reasons- as proved by the very existence of this thread!

If a Sikh says that s/he respects Islam, it shouldn't taken as that s/he accepts Islam.

There is a difference between saying that you respect Islam, and saying, as AvarAllahNoor did, that Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of God.
 
Sikhism is the last religion to be created. It shows the failings of the previous 5 religions. The Khalsa Raj (Rule of the Pure Ones) is upon us people, prepare yourselves.
 
^What does that have to do with the topic lol? Come on, back to proving to me that the Quran was changed please.

We stopped at the part where I explain you had taken the stuff you quoted out of context, and I used what I thought was the very website you got the info from to prove it wrong.

If you think it was a different website can you link me to is please?
 
^What does that have to do with the topic lol? Come on, back to proving to me that the Quran was changed please.

We stopped at the part where I explain you had taken the stuff you quoted out of context, and I used what I thought was the very website you got the info from to prove it wrong.

If you think it was a different website can you link me to is please?

lol, sorry got a little too excited. :-[

OK, let me have my din dins and I'll be back tackling the subject.
 
I know what she is saying but I was trying to be subtle about it. I don't know many Muslims around me. There are a couple of at my work. One of them is Americanized and the other one doesn't believe in organized religion. So, I really don't know how Muslims are going to react to certain things. It seems to me they feel that they have right to put down any other religion as this person is doing. But I have this feeling that someone said exactly the same about their religion what she is saying about other religion, they would be all upset. So I am trying to stay away from provoking them for any reason at all.

But whatever Muslims believe that Mohammad Sahib said is not a Sikh issue. We simply know that all gurus and saints whose baani is included in Guru Granth Sahib had the direct revelation.

I haven't been able to find anything regarding Jesus and Mohammad Sahib in Guru Granth Sahib. Then why should we assume anything whether or not they believed that Jesus and Mohammad were prophets. One thing we know for sure our gurus and Sikhs were brutalized to death by Muslim rulers at the time when they refused to accept Islam.

What other proof do we need when Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 5 and 7 year old children were burried alive under walls but they refused to accept Islam?

If a Sikh says that s/he respects Islam, it shouldn't taken as that s/he accepts Islam.

I don't think it would be fair to compare Sikhi to Baha'i religion without understanding both religions entirely.

Stick to the topic, provide evdience for your claims, or keep out. Please. There's enough trolls here, no need for more. Trust me.


I didn't know you were some kind of internationally recognized person to have ability to validate a religion.

Don't you feel ashamed that you're asking someone and give silly replies like the above becasue the answer isn't what you're looking for :X

back to topic.
 
Well folks,

The bottom line here is that there were people after Mohammad Sahib to whom God revealed Himself.

Whatever AvalAllahNoor said and whatever you make out of it is your perception and issue. It has nothing to do Sikhi. I am pretty sure he said it out of respect and he didn't know that someone was take it to a level to negate the fact that there was anybody after Mohammad Sahib whom God revealed Himself to.

Of course whatever you believe is your own issue and has nothing to do with anybody else. We can only believe what's written in Guru Granth Sahib and I couldn't find anything about Jesus or Mohammad Sahib.

Only a true Sikh would know what exactly Sikhi is and we are not spiritually wise enough to even try to compare Sikhi to other religions. We are not true Sikhs, we simply express ourselves based upon our own perception and our perception does not reflect the whole truth, nothing but truth. A true Sikh becomes a saint himself while living this life and doesn't have to wonder about what's gonna happen after death.

This goes to every body. Next time you even think saying something about other religions, write it down first and think about it how you would feel if the same thing was said about your religion.

Have a good day :-)
 
You challenge them? Who are you exactly...

This is a muslim forum so of course you're going to refute it. Ask the Shia who believe that the Quran is not the original and say Ali was mentioned in the original . How can you as a muslim lay claim the Quran is not distorted when muslims themselves say it?!

And, the Guru's were not any Tom Dick or Harry. - They were messengers of the Timeless one and wrote the revelation of God. Name anyone else who writes such and claims it a revelation? You'll not find a soul!

Only shia extremists believe the quran has been changed. the majority of the shia believe in the same quran as us. they just interpret it differently.
 
There have been people since the guru's who have claimed to be prophets too. So, does that mean that we should listen to Joseph Smith or to Elijah Muhammad. If having some claim that you are a prophet and then writing down your message is what makes one a credible prophet, and then we are to follow the most recent of whoever these people are, I assure you that I can produce a new prophet tomorrow.

The standards that I understand are being proposed for prophethood seem very week to me.
 
having some claim that you are a prophet and then writing down your message is what makes one a credible prophet, and then we are to follow the most recent of whoever these people are, I assure you that I can produce a new prophet tomorrow.

The standards that I understand are being proposed for prophethood seem very week to me.

You can?? Wow can they perform the great miracles of the Gurus? If they can, then please show me where you can find such a person as I'd be the first to prostrate before him :D

Then if you take the time to look up Sikhism on google (you'll get a billions of pages) you'll find the Gurus were not anybody. You'll know of the great things they did and how they did them. Similar to what Jesus did. Same mission just a different time.

Note to mods - This is not promoting my religion it's EDUCATING a big difference.
 
If they can, then please show me where you can find such a person as I'd be the first to prostrate before him :D

Only God is worthy of prostration, not prophets.

Then if you take the time to look up Sikhism on google (you'll get a billions of pages) you'll find the Gurus were not anybody.

There was only 1,770,000 pages... perhaps you should edit your post to millions? :D

By the way, can you please explain why PCJS thinks that Sikhs do not really believe that Prophet Muhammad pbuh and Jesus (as) were prophets, and that it is not mentioned in your scriptures? :?
 
The real "Satanic Verses" how Muhammad's attempt to win over his opponents ended with his saying he had been inspired not by God, but by Satan Can you expalin this to me Malaikh please?

SJC, is seeing it from a diffrent point i suspect. No mention of any prophets in out Holy Scriptures? Jesus and Moses are mentioned. as for Mohammed I'll have to get my more leanred friend to tell advise me on this. I'll find the verses and post them :smile
 
The real "Satanic Verses" how Muhammad's attempt to win over his opponents ended with his saying he had been inspired not by God, but by Satan Can you expalin this to me Malaikh please?


These allegations are completely false.

There is no saheeh* isnaad from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) concerning this report, which says that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) “recited Soorat al-Najm to the mushrikeen until he reached the verses (interpretation of the meaning) ‘Have you then considered Al-Laat, and Al-‘Uzzaa (two idols of the pagan Arabs), And Manaat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the other third?’ [al-Najm 53:19-20 – interpretation of the meaning]. Then the Shaytaan put words into the mouth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he said: ‘they are the exalted gharaneeq, whose intercession is to be hoped for.’ The kuffaar were pleased with this praise of their three idols, so they prostrated.”

This report is undoubtedly false on a number of counts.

1. Its isnaad** is very weak and is not saheeh.


2. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was infallible with regard to the conveying of his Message.

3.Even if this report was saheeh, for argument’s sake, the scholars have stated that it is to be understood as meaning that the Shaytaan caused the kuffaar to hear these words, not that he put them in the mouth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so they heard them from him.​

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=4135&ln=eng&txt

*means authentic.
**means chain of narrators

This explains that the hadith that this story is derived from is very weak, meaning that it cannot be confidently attributed to the prophet pbuh. We don't just believe every hadith, they must be examined to make sure they are authentic and truly did happen. There is a very strict science devoted to separating the authenic hadith from those that are false.

You can find much more detailed explanations in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/880-alleged-satanic-verses.html?highlight=satanic+verses

Check out the second page, you have posted there your self!:D

SJC, is seeing it from a diffrent point i suspect. No mention of any prophets in out Holy Scriptures? Jesus and Moses are mentioned. as for Mohammed I'll have to get my more leanred friend to tell advise me on this. I'll find the verses and post them :smile

cool thanks.
 
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Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
having some claim that you are a prophet and then writing down your message is what makes one a credible prophet, and then we are to follow the most recent of whoever these people are, I assure you that I can produce a new prophet tomorrow.

The standards that I understand are being proposed for prophethood seem very week to me.
You can?? Wow can they perform the great miracles of the Gurus? If they can, then please show me where you can find such a person as I'd be the first to prostrate before him :D

Then if you take the time to look up Sikhism on google (you'll get a billions of pages) you'll find the Gurus were not anybody. You'll know of the great things they did and how they did them. Similar to what Jesus did. Same mission just a different time.

Note to mods - This is not promoting my religion it's EDUCATING a big difference.

You editted my quote to make it say something I did not say. I did not say that I could produce a true prophet. I said "If having some claim...." I am saying that if this (what I summarized as requirements as I had gathered from your posts) is all that it takes to meet the conditions of prophethood, then it takes very little to meet it. You had two choices to educate me that there was more involved in prophethood than just what I had listed, or to mock or attack me. I am trying to learn, but I get non-sequitor arguments from one Sikh and derision from another. It does not attract me to your religion.
 
it is mentioned in scriptures!!! sikhi does speak about muhammad coming to the earth!!!! By gurdas ji's vaars where described by Guru Arjun dev ji as being the key to Guru Granth sahib ji. here is what it says in on of them. read the following what bhai Gurdas ji says:

When varied sects got prevalent, then Muhammad, the beloved of God was born.
The nation got divided into seventy two divisions and many types of enmity and opposition erupted.
The world was bound to roza, id, namaz, etc.
Pirs, paigambars aulias, gaus and qutabs came into being in many countries.
The temples were replaced by mosques.
Less powerful were killed and thus the earth became replete with sin.
Armenians and Rumis were declared apostates (Kafirs) and they were decimated in the Battle fields.
The sin became ubiquitious all around.
There are four castes of Hindus and four sects of Muslims in the world.
The members of both religions are selfish, jealous proud, bigoted and violent.
The Hindus make pilgrimage to Hardvar and Banaras, the Muslim to the Kaba of Mecca.
Circumcision is dear to the Muslims, sandal mark (tilak) and sacred thread to the Hindus.
The Hindus invoke Ram, the Muslims, Rahim, but in reality there is only One God.
Since they have forgotten the Vedas and the Katebas, worldly greed and devil have led them astray.
Truth hidden from both; the brahmins and maulvis kill one another by their animosities.
Neither sect shall find liberation from transmigration.
...................
The benefactor Lord listened to the cries (of humanity) and sent Guru Nanak to this world.
......He preached in this darkage (kaliyug) that, saragun (Brahm) and nirgun (Parbrahm) are the same and identical.
Dharma was now established on its four feet and all the four castes (through fraternal feeling) were converted into one caste (of humanity).
.........Inverse is the game of the beloved; he got the egotist high heads bowed to feet of the lord.
Baba Nanak rescued this dark age (kaliyug) and recited ‘satinam’ (true name) mantr for one and all.
Guru Nanak came to redeem the kaliyug (age of darkness).
......
First of all Baba Nanak obtained the gate of the grace (of Lord) and then He underwent and earned the rigorous discipline( of heart and mind).
He fed himself with sand and swallow-wort and made stones his bedding i.e. he enjoyed poverty too.
He offered his full devotion and then he was fortunate to have proximity with God.
Baba reached the region of truth wherefrom he received Nam, the storehouse of nine treasures and humility.
In his meditation, Baba found the whole earth burning (with the fire of lust and anger).
Without the taker from darkness to light there is utter darkness and he heard the cries of the common men.
To further understand the people, Guru Nanak donned robes in their manner and preached them to be detached (from the pleasure and pain).
Thus he went out to depurate humanity on earth.
 
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You editted my quote to make it say something I did not say. I did not say that I could produce a true prophet. I said "If having some claim...." I am saying that if this (what I summarized as requirements as I had gathered from your posts) is all that it takes to meet the conditions of prophethood, then it takes very little to meet it. You had two choices to educate me that there was more involved in prophethood than just what I had listed, or to mock or attack me. I am trying to learn, but I get non-sequitor arguments from one Sikh and derision from another. It does not attract me to your religion.

I'm not trying to 'attract' you to my religion. Like the Jews, Sikhs do not feel the need to go on crusades or conversion missions. Although thousands of non indian Sikhs have embraced Sikhism in the U.S, China and European countries. :statisfie

The main point being Sikhs have a direct revelation from GOD. No in-betweens, no Angels or Disciples. THIS alone sets us with the belief that Sikhism is the religion of God. I'm not here to prove you wrong. You follow what caters for your needs. and I'll do the same!


Malaikh I'll have a look through that link you've provided. And get back to you.
 
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The verse 'There will be no prophet after Mohammed' cannot be true. This to me is egotistical. Something God's messenger would not say.
 
I'm not trying to 'attract' you to my religion. Like the Jews, Sikhs do not feel the need to go on crusades or conversion missions. Although thousands of non indian Sikhs have embraced Sikhism in the U.S, China and European countries. :statisfie

The main point being Sikhs have a direct revelation from GOD. No in-betweens, no Angels or Disciples. THIS alone sets us with the belief that Sikhism is the religion of God. I'm not here to prove you wrong. You follow what caters for your needs. and I'll do the same!


Malaikh I'll have a look through that link you've provided. And get back to you.

This isn't about anyone's needs are, it's about what is the truth. There is only one true religion.
 
it is mentioned in scriptures!!! sikhi does speak about muhammad coming to the earth!!!! By gurdas ji's vaars where described by Guru Arjun dev ji as being the key to Guru Granth sahib ji. here is what it says in on of them. read the following what bhai Gurdas ji says:

When varied sects got prevalent, then Muhammad, the beloved of God was born.
The nation got divided into seventy two divisions and many types of enmity and opposition erupted.
The world was bound to roza, id, namaz, etc.
Pirs, paigambars aulias, gaus and qutabs came into being in many countries.
The temples were replaced by mosques.
Less powerful were killed and thus the earth became replete with sin.
Armenians and Rumis were declared apostates (Kafirs) and they were decimated in the Battle fields.
The sin became ubiquitious all around.
There are four castes of Hindus and four sects of Muslims in the world.
The members of both religions are selfish, jealous proud, bigoted and violent.
The Hindus make pilgrimage to Hardvar and Banaras, the Muslim to the Kaba of Mecca.
Circumcision is dear to the Muslims, sandal mark (tilak) and sacred thread to the Hindus.
The Hindus invoke Ram, the Muslims, Rahim, but in reality there is only One God.
Since they have forgotten the Vedas and the Katebas, worldly greed and devil have led them astray.
Truth hidden from both; the brahmins and maulvis kill one another by their animosities.
Neither sect shall find liberation from transmigration.
...................
The benefactor Lord listened to the cries (of humanity) and sent Guru Nanak to this world.
......He preached in this darkage (kaliyug) that, saragun (Brahm) and nirgun (Parbrahm) are the same and identical.
Dharma was now established on its four feet and all the four castes (through fraternal feeling) were converted into one caste (of humanity).
.........Inverse is the game of the beloved; he got the egotist high heads bowed to feet of the lord.
Baba Nanak rescued this dark age (kaliyug) and recited ‘satinam’ (true name) mantr for one and all.
Guru Nanak came to redeem the kaliyug (age of darkness).
......
First of all Baba Nanak obtained the gate of the grace (of Lord) and then He underwent and earned the rigorous discipline( of heart and mind).
He fed himself with sand and swallow-wort and made stones his bedding i.e. he enjoyed poverty too.
He offered his full devotion and then he was fortunate to have proximity with God.
Baba reached the region of truth wherefrom he received Nam, the storehouse of nine treasures and humility.
In his meditation, Baba found the whole earth burning (with the fire of lust and anger).
Without the taker from darkness to light there is utter darkness and he heard the cries of the common men.
To further understand the people, Guru Nanak donned robes in their manner and preached them to be detached (from the pleasure and pain).
Thus he went out to depurate humanity on earth.

Thankyou. I'm sure Mohammed is mentioned in the SGGS. I'll get it too. Bhai Gurdas spoke of Kaaba spinning too didn't he? I may be wrong
 

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