Is this a good Refutation? 'Was Islam Spread by the Sword?'

[Malaikah]

The sword was not used because they didn't convert, it was used for their act of treason.

Huge difference!

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Clear your mind man, it doesn't seem to be sitting in your head.

 

[wilberhum]

The sword was not used because they didn't convert, it was used for their act of treason.

Huge difference!

It is amazing. Does any one read? It isn't about thoes that were executed or why they were executed.:rant:
It is about those that were spaired the sword because they converted.
It seams obvious to me that they were converted by the sword. laying:

 

[Keltoi]

It is amazing. Does any one read? It isn't about thoes that were executed or why they were executed.:rant:
It is about those that were spaired the sword because they converted.
It seams obvious to me that they were converted by the sword. laying:

I'm afraid I agree with wilberhum. If one is executed for not converting, then that person's life was taken because they didn't convert. One less non-Muslim to get in the way.

 

[- Qatada -]

I'm afraid I agree with wilberhum. If one is executed for not converting, then that person's life was taken because they didn't convert. One less non-Muslim to get in the way.

Keltoi, have you actually read what i posted? These people got executed because of their crime of treason. They would have got killed anyway even though they were safe before because they upheld their treaty, until the battle of the trench where they broke it off [preparing to kill the muslim women, children and seniors.]

Due to the fact that their intention was to kill the muslims - the same punishment was applied upon them. An exception to the rule was that they become muslim because we, and even you as a christian understand the concept of good and bad deeds. And we know that if someone becomes muslim, all their past bad deeds are erased.

 

[islamway]

About Islam:

Islaam is not a religion of arms and swords! When Allaah Almighty revealed the Noble Qur'ân to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, and Muhammad became the Messenger of GOD Almighty, Muhammad had to spread Islaam to 365 Pagan Arab Tribes. These tribes showed so much hostility toward the Muslims and Islaam, and have imposed so many battles against the Muslims.

Later, when Islaam was the religion of what we call today Saudi Arabia, and the 365 Pagan Arab tribes mostly converted to Islaam, the Muslims had to yet face another type of challenge.

The Nuclear Soviet Union and the United States of America of our days were the Great Empires of the Christian Romans and the Pagan Persians. If you know geography and history well enough, then you would see that the Muslims were trapped between those two big Super Powers.

Hostility and Battles from those two Empires were imposed upon the Muslims. For instance, when our Prophet peace be upon him sent his messenger to "Kisrah", the Emperor of Persia, introducing Islaam to him, Kisrah ordered for the Muslims' Messenger to be executed!

Back then, like today, this was considered a coward act. It was the Persians who showed the hostility toward the Muslims and declared the many battles against Islaam.

The Christian Romans weren't any better. For instance, in one of their many battles against the Muslims is when they saw the threat to their religion in the Middle East, the King "Herucl", sent out an army of 100,000 men and ordered them to go to "Madina" in what we call today Saudi Arabia to destroy Islaam once and for all.

The Muslims were not stable yet at that time, and they only sent out an army of 3,000 men at that time to drive the Christian Romans away from Madina. The battle was named "The battle of Mo'ta" and it took place in Mo'ta, Jordan today.

The Muslims' plan was to meet the Christian Romans far away from Madina, and to have them stray away from Madina. The army of 3,000 men was successful enough to fight the Christian Romans for few days and then to pull away from the battle and headed South of Jordan. The Romans strayed away from Madina and the small army of the Muslims was able to run away through the mountains. More than half of the 3,000 Muslims however were killed in this operation.

The point is that Islaam didn't spread by sword with much choice. The wars were imposed upon the Muslims. The Muslims didn't ask for those wars.

 

[Keltoi]

Keltoi, have you actually read what i posted? These people got executed because of their crime of treason. They would have got killed anyway even though they were safe before because they upheld their treaty, until the battle of the trench where they broke it off [preparing to kill the muslim women, children and seniors.]

Due to the fact that their intention was to kill the muslims - the same punishment was applied upon them. An exception to the rule was that they become muslim because we, and even you as a christian understand the concept of good and bad deeds. And we know that if someone becomes muslim, all their past bad deeds are erased.

You're right, sorry. I misunderstood the context to be the execution of those who refused to convert to Islam. I didn't catch the details of the situation.

 

[YusufNoor]

A`udhu Billahi mina Shaytanir Rajeem,

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

Assalamu 'alaykum,

ummm, i didn't real the whole thread, cuz i don't have too!

the misperception that folks have is between conquering and converting! the Muslim Ummah may have conquered by the sword, but people were given a choice between conversion, vacating and paying the jizzya! (jizzya would be staying put and practicing your religion, but paying a tax; said tax was LESS than the REQUIRED zakat that Muslims HAD to pay!)

it's that simple!


[session 32 or 33 of the Seerah sessions Fi_Sibilillah! :lol: ]



Yusuf

 

[brenton]

Islamic rule was spread by the sword. It is a fact. Not just in Arabia (which was the most peaceful Islamic rule), but collapsing the Byzantine & Sassanid empires.

In those areas, Islam--becoming Muslim--was not spread by the sword, generally. The Mawali were even put down for accepting Islam. It took several centuries for it to "take" with the locals. And even conquerors like the Mongols became Muslims.

I think the best example is South Asia: people became Muslims without any political enticement or Islamic rule, and that is the most populous Muslim region. Islam works better when it is organic and personal, not when it is spreading an empire.

 

[Malaikah]

Islamic rule was spread by the sword. It is a fact. Not just in Arabia (which was the most peaceful Islamic rule), but collapsing the Byzantine & Sassanid empires.

In those areas, Islam--becoming Muslim--was not spread by the sword, generally. The Mawali were even put down for accepting Islam. It took several centuries for it to "take" with the locals. And even conquerors like the Mongols became Muslims.

Thank you!!! This is exactly the point I've tried to make so many times, the distinction is so important but everyone over looks it.

 

[Snowflake]

Ya it really was that way wasn't it. And again it has nothing to do with what they did or why they did it. It has nothing to do with whether or not the punishment was just. The only point I am making was, if they didn't convert, the sword was used. Now I don't care what you call it. I call it conversion by the sword. :hiding: :hiding:

Er, if muslims were converting by sword, why give the option of jiziya (tax)? :?

 

[wilberhum]

Er, if muslims were converting by sword, why give the option of jiziya (tax)? :?

I don't think jiziya was offered to the Banû Qurayza. laying: :thumbs_do

 

[Snowflake]

Any chance you find out for sure instead of just thinking?

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Exactly.
All non Muslims were offered Jizya. Maybe u should stop replying ignorantly. How can u claim to know anything about Islamic history when u dont even know this much?

 

[wilberhum]

Any chance you find out for sure instead of just thinking?

Maybe you need to find out for sure instead of just thinking.
Do you have a clue who the Banû Qurayza were or what there story is?

 

[wilberhum]

^^Exactly.
All non Muslims were offered Jizya. Maybe u should stop replying ignorantly. How can u claim to know anything about Islamic history when u dont even know this much?

Wow, I am really impressed. Obviously you don't konw some of your history either. All almost never works, because there are almost allways excptions.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Are u kiddin me, u make comments that are wrong even after someone says how somethin was.

 

[wilberhum]

Your asking as if u know more?

I know better about this one fact. I'm just amazed at the denial/excuses it receives.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Lol, sure mate.

 

[Snowflake]

Maybe you need to find out for sure instead of just thinking.
Do you have a clue who the Banû Qurayza were or what there story is?

It's not me who's thinking. And I do have more than a clue about who the Banu Qurayza were. They agreed to aid the Meccans in their attack on Medina. That's asking to be slaughtered.