Rebels' dilemma after Basayev death

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Count DeSheep said:
If there are soldiers that have no choice in the matter, why kill any soldiers to begin with?

They are being forced to do what they do, you say. Are they not just as much victims as the civilians are? Going on the assumption that you will defend killing other soldiers, I must ask, why not kill all soldiers? Eventually the young soldiers will kill civilians. They do have guns for a reason.

You say that the Russians are violent murderers, and that is true. They slaughter innocent civilians and refuse to allow anyone independence from their iron fist. So tell me, why defend them? If young soldiers like the ones the rebels freed are forced into the army, why turn them back over the the Russian government? Are you not helping the government by doing so?
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Well first of all not all Russian soldiers are in the same situation as the ones I told you about. That is just a part of the army. And not all of the young ones that were sent there hate being there. There are also many young ones who are sent there but they're happy cause they're hoping to make some money. It's just that when the rebels captured those young Russian soldiers after battle Shamil came to the place to see them and when he came he saw these young boys standing in front of him who didn't even want to end up there, they never asked to go to Chechnya, they never wanted all of this. So when Shamil saw them he tried to negotiate with the Russians to exchange the soldiers for innocent civilians that the Russians were keeping in concentration camps. But of course the Russians refused but he let them go anyways because those people didn't deserve to finish like that. Now I also can't tell you everything since I wasn't there and don't know every detail about what happened there. But also one thing Russian soldiers are indeed savages but there are young ones who are sent there by force and who see the truth and try to help Chechens. For example there have been many cases when the Russian army was going to organise a cleansing in a village ( destroy everyhting and everyone) there would be soldiers like those young ones who have a heart that would go and tell the civilians that they should pack their stuff and flee because the Russian army was approaching. And Chechens pity young soldiers like that there were many times when a soldier like that would be taken care of by a Chechen family and there are many of those soldiers' stories where they tell about how the Chechens treated them like if they were part of their family. There are also Russian soldiers who deserted their camp and joined the Chechen rebels because they really see the truth of what their so called "army" is really doing in Chechnya.
 
So instead of letting the war drag on a bit longer, with the Russian army becoming more sympathetic to the Chechen cause little by little, the rebels sent a group to Beslan. Instead of being seen as a peaceful group, they gave the enemy a good example of how heartless and cruel the rebels are (not that I feel that way, but that's what the Russian government wants people to think). Instead of doing things the hard/peaceful way, they tried to do things the easy/violent way: put lives on the line, hoping that the Russians would give in after years of war over the lives of a few hundred children. Need I remind you of the fact that many adults view those younger than they are as being sub-human, and not worth the effort to save--unless, of course, there is positive publicity to be gained. The rebels were taking a HUGE gamble in Beslan and they knew it. They knew there was a slim chance, if any, of the government giving in. And yet they struck anyway. They've probably all but destroyed the good reputation they'd gained with a few Russians. If I, a person with no kind of training in areas like that, can figure out that rebel actions in Beslan were not smart at all, then surely the rebel leaders can figure that out as well.
 
Count DeSheep said:
So instead of letting the war drag on a bit longer, with the Russian army becoming more sympathetic to the Chechen cause little by little, the rebels sent a group to Beslan. Instead of being seen as a peaceful group, they gave the enemy a good example of how heartless and cruel the rebels are (not that I feel that way, but that's what the Russian government wants people to think). Instead of doing things the hard/peaceful way, they tried to do things the easy/violent way: put lives on the line, hoping that the Russians would give in after years of war over the lives of a few hundred children. Need I remind you of the fact that many adults view those younger than they are as being sub-human, and not worth the effort to save--unless, of course, there is positive publicity to be gained. The rebels were taking a HUGE gamble in Beslan and they knew it. They knew there was a slim chance, if any, of the government giving in. And yet they struck anyway. They've probably all but destroyed the good reputation they'd gained with a few Russians. If I, a person with no kind of training in areas like that, can figure out that rebel actions in Beslan were not smart at all, then surely the rebel leaders can figure that out as well.
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Umm the sympathy thing I was talking about isn't very common. Those are very rare cases. I mean about 20 soldiers out of 300 000 soldiers doesn't mean that sympathy is growing largely for the Chechens. The Russians haven't started liking the Chechens and never will. Ever since Chechens and Russians met eachother they've hated eachother. Chechens because Russians have always been putting them through all sorts of torture and Russians since they're always taught to hate Chechens. There's a famous song in Russia that mothers sing to their babies to have them go to sleep and in one part of the song there is a part that goes: Look out my dear child because the savage Chechen is running at you with his sword. Now since Russians are babies they're taught to hate and fear Chechens. So I'm telling you there will never be good relations or sympathy between Chechens and Russians. Those young soldiers I was telling you about was just an example to show you how some people can open their eyes and see the truth and accept it.
 
Chechen is spreading lies, he is a one person propaganda machine. He is here to desperately try to convince people that Basayev is actually a hero, instead of the truth. The truth that Basayev was a child terrorizing, murdering, dog.
Chechen will try to convince people that taking children hostage with guns and bombs, and killing their fathers in front of them is justified, "if you really need to make a point".

People, for the truth, hear what the children that were held hostage have to say. Watch the documentary, "Children of Beslan".
 
SilentObserver said:
Chechen is spreading lies, he is a one person propaganda machine. He is here to desperately try to convince people that Basayev is actually a hero, instead of the truth. The truth that Basayev was a child terrorizing, murdering, dog.
Chechen will try to convince people that taking children hostage with guns and bombs, and killing their fathers in front of them is justified, "if you really need to make a point".

People, for the truth, hear what the children that were held hostage have to say. Watch the documentary, "Children of Beslan".
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Right... You have probably now accused me of everything possible in this world... Honestly I think you're crazy. No really I honestly think something is wrong in your head. May Allah help you.
 
Chechen said:
Right... You have probably now accused me of everything possible in this world...
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Well, there is one left, and you beat me to it. I think your crazy. You must be to defend a child killer.

Chechen said:
Honestly I think you're crazy. No really I honestly think something is wrong in your head. May Allah help you.
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The doctor told me the medicine would make people stop saying that.:raging:
 
SilentObserver said:
Well, there is one left, and you beat me to it. I think your crazy. You must be to defend a child killer.

The doctor told me the medicine would make people stop saying that.:raging:
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Wait you're being a hypocrite right now since you've been defending child killers this whole time.
 
Chechen said:
Well sorry I must of understood wrong then. It's just that you were accusing Chechens all the time and defending Russians.
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Correction: I was stating the facts about the chechens that took the school children hostage, and defending the children and other civilians.
 
Chechen said:
There's a famous song in Russia that mothers sing to their babies to have them go to sleep and in one part of the song there is a part that goes: Look out my dear child because the savage Chechen is running at you with his sword. Now since Russians are babies they're taught to hate and fear Chechens. So I'm telling you there will never be good relations or sympathy between Chechens and Russians.
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Wait, wait, wait...Are you saying that the Russian children are raised hating Chechens? Then it's a good thing them rebels went to Beslan to set the record straight. That really smoothed things over, it did. Taught the next generation of Russians that Chechens aren't savage killers. Really showed them how cowardly their own government is, targeting civilians, killing unarmed women and children...

[/sarcasm]
 
Count DeSheep said:
Wait, wait, wait...Are you saying that the Russian children are raised hating Chechens? Then it's a good thing them rebels went to Beslan to set the record straight. That really smoothed things over, it did. Taught the next generation of Russians that Chechens aren't savage killers. Really showed them how cowardly their own government is, targeting civilians, killing unarmed women and children...

[/sarcasm]
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Right... Ok let's say that the Chechens were responsible and they killed everyone and did it on purpose, let's just imagine that, would you hate a whole nation just because of the action of a few men?? That I think is racism.
 
I do not hate the Chechens, I hate the rebels. The people who authorized and participated on the attack on Beslan are just as bad as the Russians that oppress the Chechens. Now, just so you don't jump on me for being pro-Russia, I DO support the Chechnian movement for independence, but not the way they go about getting that independence.
 
Count DeSheep said:
I do not hate the Chechens, I hate the rebels. The people who authorized and participated on the attack on Beslan are just as bad as the Russians that oppress the Chechens. Now, just so you don't jump on me for being pro-Russia, I DO support the Chechnian movement for independence, but not the way they go about getting that independence.
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Wait I don't get it.. Hang on you're saying that you don't like the rebels for what they do but you still like them and support them?? Sorry I jus't don't get it I probably understood you wrong.
 
Chechen said:
Wait I don't get it.. Hang on you're saying that you don't like the rebels for what they do but you still like them and support them?? Sorry I jus't don't get it I probably understood you wrong.
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I support the cause, not the actions. Example: A man wants to buy a carton of milk from a crowded store. He should:

A. Shoot everyone between him and the milk.

B. Go around everyone.

Did that clarify it?
 
Count DeSheep said:
I support the cause, not the actions. Example: A man wants to buy a carton of milk from a crowded store. He should:

A. Shoot everyone between him and the milk.

B. Go around everyone.

Did that clarify it?
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Ooh right I understand now thanks for clearing things up for me. By the way nice example lol
 
Count DeSheep said:
I support the cause, not the actions. Example: A man wants to buy a carton of milk from a crowded store. He should:

A. Shoot everyone between him and the milk.

B. Go around everyone.

Did that clarify it?
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But the World can support the Bombings of thousands of Muslim women and children who are massacred and yet where are the world outcrys? 650,000 killed in Iraq, where are the WORLD OUTCRYS, Over Tens of thousands of women and children in Afghanistan, where are the WORLD OUTCRYS, Yet they teach this is Democracy (Liberation in a Kaffir way).
 

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