Chemicals attacks against tribal leader opposed to Al-Queda sicken hundreds Iraqi's

[snakelegs]

Re: Chemicals attacks against tribal leader

Would I be wrong to think that US may have had a hand in the insurgent attacks from the start? So it would justify them remaining there as long as possible? I speak the truth.

here's a real eye-opener on the many different games u.s. is playing in the middle-east.
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...ft-benefitting-its-enemies-war-terrorism.html

 

[don532]

I never Said the US is Evil My Brother u took me All wrong.

If a few fishermen drown on sea then thus that mean the sea is Evil.

It's not like that...



The Country that was formed in such a way to help the people in any means.

This way one of the points held on the U.S. Legilature when a set of laws were created...

The point is the Government which is Ruling takes it in that way.


U can see the movies and Serials Potray Texas People as Cowboy's alsways with guns and who wish to fight . Do u feel it in that way i really don't think so...


and the same thing also happened to us Muslims.


when one group of people where fighting to refrain their home town and

One was indulging in some terror activities and

one set who strictly followed the rules of the religion in all aspects and lived peacefully


And when the casualties of the Terror group was great the world clubbed all the muslims into one category as terrorist and they started to attack us in all means.


U know what happened after 9/11 in India the people who were interested in social welfare and who were political threat to some politicians were grouped as Muslim terrorists and Jailed

This is not the case with just India but with all Muslim's all over the world.

yet we still survive.

and when it was a work of an terrorist group why didn't they aimed on that specific group but on one specific community.

and did any of our Muslim brothers aimed on any specific group of people for the fault of a certain state or country.


U can still see the people who fight with U.S Force in Iraq really would Appreciate U.S if it would help those people to reconstruct Iraq without it's armed men but by employing some non profitable associations and organisations in such a way to employ Iraqi people build their own town

so the people in Iraq will get work and also they could also reconstruct the whole country.

How do u think the people will return to normal life when there are Armed men and Battle Tanks roaming around their country.


Peace was never achieved in Gun point and that's the reason why the used flowers and birds to reflect peace.


All i ask don't make Iraq as a Historical place by burrying more and more graves on that land instead let it once again Bloom.


Do u think if a set of armed men are roaming on your streets will really make u feel secured. will your children play in roads and will they all feel free and independent on such a condition.....

I see your point now. Thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding.
However, it is not the US that is killing all the Iraqis that are dying. We are not the ones blowing up the markets, planting IEDs and assasinating Iraqis based on their sect.
When our forces rebuild a pipeline, the insurgents blow it up.
Non-profit organizations would not be wise to be there now because their people will be killed or kidnapped.
If the armed coalition men all leave now, those that do terror against their own countrymen to strive for power would continue unabated.
The thought is the US provides security while the Iraqi government gets formed and able to provide security for its people and then we leave. A noble goal, but doing that is certainly proving difficult.

 

[shible]

The thought is the US provides security while the Iraqi government gets formed and able to provide security for its people and then we leave. A noble goal, but doing that is certainly proving difficult.

I can Clearly understand that.

But to achieve that we first need to gain the trust of those residents in Iraq.

But in case if the people are not in favor of the present condition and if they tend to leave then for whom will the government and the U.S. Forces construct the nation.

We knew many histories of many kind of kings and i fear there are some kings who came to thron by killing most number of people.

And i don't wish to see that happen again.

I agree the terrorist will try to root in and use this time to plant their terror. But can't you see till now the overall number of people killed there and in them about 10 - 20% are said to be activists and the remaining 70 - 80% are all innocent people.

A government should be formed for the welfare of those people and not to plunder the people and make the nation as a living Graveyard.

We can still see the Big oil gaints of U.S. are right now on a bid for those oil wells in Iraq.

Is this what the welfare of people means.


How much did the U.S. helped the Afghan after the war. Do u think that U.S.
achieved their goal and finally helped the nation.


While they were Bombing on Iraq they destroyed several Hospitals, Schools, Research Societies and many more of those resident homes.


Do u think that the U.S. will help them in building all these things.


Can't you see the reality Before your Eyes and


finally they accepted there was no weapons of mass destruction.

Now what will be the Sentence given to U.S. Administration which killed so many of those innocent people..................

Jus try to Apply yourself on that state what do u think will be your decision after your house is burnt and your closest family member is dead ( " May God forgive me for using such words Astagfirullah" ).

Will you still be in a mindset of accepting the help of those who did this to you

 

[MTAFFI]

Re: Chemicals attacks against

I find it absolutely irresponsible and ridiculous some of the responses that have come about on this particular thread. Here is a thread about Al-Qaeda insurgents poisoning Iraqi air, sickening other Muslims in a barbaric chemical attack, and the majority of the Muslim responses on this thread are "Well the US should have done something" or "It is the US's fault". I simply cannot understand this logic, it is almost like anything that happens can be justified, by some, by blaming the US. This is just sick and misguided, it is not the US's fault that this happened it is those that blame it on the US, it is their fault. By justifying what these groups are doing by simply blaming it on the US you are empowering and supporting these groups. WAKE UP, many Muslims are creating an enviroment that is affecting Muslims everywhere, stop blaming everyone else, take responsibility and stand against these heinous and cowardly acts of violence, then and only then will your lands be free and your people will live in peace. Until you realize that it isnt the US that is causing you problems and that it is your own people you will live in a state of war, and any group or organization that has ever acted this way is only destined for one thing, annihilation.

 

[don532]

Who is killing the 80%....the innocents?
So should the US leave and let those that do terror have the country?
If the Iraqis could govern themselves they would have done so by now.

 

[don532]

I can Clearly understand that.

But to achieve that we first need to gain the trust of those residents in Iraq.

But in case if the people are not in favor of the present condition and if they tend to leave then for whom will the government and the U.S. Forces construct the nation.

We knew many histories of many kind of kings and i fear there are some kings who came to thron by killing most number of people.

And i don't wish to see that happen again.

I agree the terrorist will try to root in and use this time to plant their terror. But can't you see till now the overall number of people killed there and in them about 10 - 20% are said to be activists and the remaining 70 - 80% are all innocent people.

A government should be formed for the welfare of those people and not to plunder the people and make the nation as a living Graveyard.

We can still see the Big oil gaints of U.S. are right now on a bid for those oil wells in Iraq.

Is this what the welfare of people means.


How much did the U.S. helped the Afghan after the war. Do u think that U.S.
achieved their goal and finally helped the nation.


While they were Bombing on Iraq they destroyed several Hospitals, Schools, Research Societies and many more of those resident homes.


Do u think that the U.S. will help them in building all these things.


Can't you see the reality Before your Eyes and


finally they accepted there was no weapons of mass destruction.

Now what will be the Sentence given to U.S. Administration which killed so many of those innocent people..................

Jus try to Apply yourself on that state what do u think will be your decision after your house is burnt and your closest family member is dead ( " May God forgive me for using such words Astagfirullah" ).

Will you still be in a mindset of accepting the help of those who did this to you

I think my previous reply was unclear.

So who is killing the 80% who are innocent? Is it the US or is it the insurgents that blow themselves up in the marketplace and kidnap to assasinate other Muslims?

Should the US just leave so those that do terror may have the country?

If the Iraqis could govern themselves, they would have by now.

Believe me, we would love to not be there militarily.

 

[shible]

reply

Since u need some proofs i am posting a few proofs for your better understanding


Pessimism 'growing among Iraqis'
A new survey paints a pessimistic picture of Iraqis' confidence in their own government and in coalition forces.
Only 18% of Iraqis have confidence in US and coalition troops, while opinion is almost evenly split on whether to have confidence in Iraq's government.

About 86% of those questioned expressed concern about someone in their household being a victim of violence.

More than 2,000 people were polled, which was commissioned by the BBC, ABC News, ARD German TV and USA Today.

The survey was conducted by D3 Systems.

The latest findings contrast strongly with the outlook among Iraqis in 2005, when respondents to a similar survey were generally hopeful about the future.

Asked whether they thought reconstruction efforts in Iraq had been effective, some 67% said they felt they had not.

Religious divide

The poll paints a picture of an increasingly polarised Iraq, with acutely diverging views between Sunnis and Shias - Sunnis appearing more pessimistic.

Pessimism is most keenly felt across central Iraq, including Baghdad, where Sunnis are most numerous.

the link

Poll Results Source info​

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/6464277.stm

View 2​

Four years after he began the Iraq war, a diminished President George W. Bush has sacrificed much of his domestic agenda and eroded U.S. credibility abroad in pursuit of the sort of nation-building he once scorned, analysts say.

The president's job approval ratings have fallen from 90 percent shortly after the September 11 attacks to just over 30 percent.

He forfeited the dream of cementing Republican control over Congress and his administration is increasingly under fire from Democrats and Republicans alike.

"There is simply no question in my mind that the Iraq war has substantially undercut Bush's ability to get other things done domestically or internationally," said Richard Eichenberg, a professor at Tufts University who has studied Bush's approval ratings.

"When he was re-elected in the fall of 2004 he interpreted the election ... by saying that 'I have political capital. I'm going to spend it.' But the fact of the matter is he's spent it all on Iraq and he's got precious little left," Eichenberg said.

After the Iraq invasion, Bush's approval ratings became linked to casualty figures and less tied to traditional factors like the economy, Eichenberg and Richard Stoll of Rice University found in researching the president's poll numbers.

"It resembles in a lot of ways what happened with President (Lyndon) Johnson in Vietnam," Stoll said. The war "sort of looms so large that it pushes almost everything else off the agenda."

In his initial years in office, Bush pushed an 11-year, $1.35 trillion tax cut through Congress, overhauled the nation's education law and added a drug benefit to the health insurance program for the elderly.

the source

Bush's Iraq-related woes...​

View 3​

"One way to look at the situation in Iraq is to try to identify variables, elements that could change. Without change, the war is likely to end with troops having to fight their way out, if they can.

The military situation in Iraq is not a variable. All that can change is the speed of our defeat. Some actions might slow it, although the time for such actions, such as adopting an "ink blot" strategy instead of "capture or kill," passed long ago.

Other actions could speed our defeat, an attack on Iran chief among them. It now looks as if the Bush administration may have realized that an out-of-the-blue, Pearl Harbor-style air and missile attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is politically infeasible. Instead, the White House will order a series of small "border incidents," pinpricks similar to last week's raid on an Iranian mission in Kurdistan, intended to provoke Iranian retaliation. That retaliation will then be presented as an Iranian attack on forces, with the air raids on Iranian nuclear targets called "retaliation." Fabricated border incidents have a long history as casus belli; perhaps the Bushies can dress some German soldiers up in Polish uniforms.

As Bush made clear in last Wednesday's speech, his policies are not a variable. He will pursue the neocons' dreams all the way to Hell, where they originated.


the link

US Sins and Bitter Options in Iraq​

View 4​

When it comes to Iraq, there are two kinds of presidential candidates. The disciplined ones, like Hillary Clinton, carefully avoid acknowledging reality. The more candid, like John McCain and Barack Obama, sometimes blurt out the truth, but quickly apologize.

For many presidential aspirants, the first unspeakable truth is simply that the war was a mistake.

A second truth universally unacknowledged is that American soldiers being killed, grotesquely maimed, and then treated like whining freeloaders at Walter Reed Hospital are victims as much as "heroes."

the source

4 Unspeakable truth​

View 5​

Perhaps this explains why most Americans seem to think places like Abu Graib, Gitmo are acceptable to the civilised world. It's seems torture is an accepted practise even inside the USA.

Torture Inc. Americas Brutal Prisons


Savaged by dogs, Electrocuted With Cattle Prods, Burned By Toxic Chemicals, Does such barbaric abuse inside U.S. jails explain the horrors that were committed in Iraq?

By Deborah Davies

They are just some of the victims of wholesale torture taking place inside the U.S. prison system that we uncovered during a four-month investigation for Channel 4 . It’s terrible to watch some of the videos and realise that you’re not only seeing torture in action but, in the most extreme cases, you are witnessing young men dying.

the source

Torture Inc. Americas Brutal Prisons​

 

[shible]

reply

the last view has a video coverage too

 

[don532]

So what do you think the US should do?

 

[shible]

Reply

So what do you think the US should do?

Well do i have to start again from the begining Bro

U already knew what i was about to say and i have already told it to you and these are jus a few pebbles that describes the Flaws with the Administration

I never made any comment or suggestion on any citizen of America since i can still see so many people who wish to help Iraq in any ways.

even the latest poll results should have made clear about the intention and thought that the American citizens have in mind

 

[MTAFFI]

Re: Reply

Well do i have to start again from the begining Bro

U already knew what i was about to say and i have already told it to you and these are jus a few pebbles that describes the Flaws with the Administration

I never made any comment or suggestion on any citizen of America since i can still see so many people who wish to help Iraq in any ways.

even the latest poll results should have made clear about the intention and thought that the American citizens have in mind

What does the administration have to do with these attacks?

 

[shible]

reply

I hope you don't really understand Bro

if few teachers in a college are not good with the subjects then who holds reponsible for them.

 

[MTAFFI]

Re: reply

I hope you don't really understand Bro

if few teachers in a college are not good with the subjects then who holds reponsible for them.

what is it exactly you hope i dont really understand?

 

[shible]

reply

Check on my previous post so that u may understand wat u really don't till now.

 

[MTAFFI]

Re: reply

Check on my previous post so that u may understand wat u really don't till now.

I agree with your earlier post, no religious group, ethnic group or otherwise should be labeled for something that others that particular group do. However the problem here is that certain groups are claiming that they do what they do on behalf of Islam, like in this case Al Qaeda. And instead of Muslims all over the world condemning these actions, many make excuses for them, like on this thread claiming it is the US's fault. It is no ones fault except the individuals involved, it is not Islam or the US, however because of the typical reaction of blaming it on someone else it appears as though many followers of Islam accept this behaviour and indirectly endorse it. These insurgents could be stopped with the help of the Muslim world, the Iraqi war and the war against these terrorist groups could be stopped with the help of Muslims relatively quickly. Muslim lands would then be left to the Muslims as there would be no need for occupation, and if they werent the rest of the world would condemn the US's actions and force the US to leave (even though it would not come to that).

My point to all of this is Muslims are causing the trouble for themselves by speaking against the very people that are trying to help them, Al Qaeda in Iraq is basically one in the same with the groups that wish to overthrow the current government and establish their own, they used chemical weapons against their own people, what would be the difference between these groups that are labeled by many in this forum as "freedom fighters" and Saddam Hussein? There is none, if the US leaves many many many more Iraqis will die horrible deaths and the country that is Iraq will be controlled by a terrorist organization that cares nothing about the people and only about destruction, not only against the west but as shown on this thread against their own people as well.

 

[shible]

reply

In deed i never said that we should support any specific Terrorist group .

Even the people of Iraq are not now in a position to support any specific groups or people but all they want is their home back.


but how far is this goal achieved is my point.


Whether some say them as Freedom fighters or any i am not concerned about the way the people think. but all i think is for a global Peace.

Which can be achieved by those who understand the current state of those people.

This is all what i meant. U can give compensation for anything but not a human Life, Try to think this as words of a human being and not as words of a Muslim or christian or someone.

 

[MTAFFI]

Re: reply

In deed i never said that we should support any specific Terrorist group .

No I never said you did

Even the people of Iraq are not now in a position to support any specific groups or people but all they want is their home back.

How can they get it back with these terrorist groups there?

but how far is this goal achieved is my point.

I am not sure what you are getting at

Whether some say them as Freedom fighters or any i am not concerned about the way the people think. but all i think is for a global Peace.

Global peace will never be acheived as long as these people are labeled as freedom fighters by some

This is all what i meant. U can give compensation for anything but not a human Life, Try to think this as words of a human being and not as words of a Muslim or christian or someone.

I personally dont care much about a persons religious or ethnic orientation when I am talking to them, good words of advice though.

 

[shible]

Re: reply

How can they get it back with these terrorist groups there?

the groups that you say don't exist when they come to know they have no issues to raise at and more over the people over there knew what exactly to do once they achieve their true freedom and they also know how to eridicate such group of people

Global peace will never be acheived as long as these people are labeled as freedom fighters by some

They were also labeled as Terrorist once and when they started helping the people in some means from the injustice happened to them (God knows the truth, Even i could be wrong, If i am wrong then i seek forgiveness from my Creator).

Some people doesn't really come into account with all people.

If there are few thousand people who feel that way then don't you think this many of the rest can help those few thousands to realize the real identity of these terrorists and Mobs.

Well what do u say Bro

 

[MTAFFI]

Re: reply

the groups that you say don't exist when they come to know they have no issues to raise at and more over the people over there knew what exactly to do once they achieve their true freedom and they also know how to eridicate such group of people

I suppose that you are saying that if the US were to leave that there would be no more issues and these groups would dissipate? Perhaps some, but definitely not the majority (in my view at least, I know this is all just speculation). The majority in Iraq killed are not Americans or foreign troops it is Iraqis, which is why I dont think the violence will stop even without foreign presence. I also dont think that the Iraqi people could eradicate such a group, why should anyone believe they could look at how long Saddam stayed in power and they could never remove him

They were also labeled as Terrorist once and when they started helping the people in some means from the injustice happened to them (God knows the truth, Even i could be wrong, If i am wrong then i seek forgiveness from my Creator).

Some people doesn't really come into account with all people.

If there are few thousand people who feel that way then don't you think this many of the rest can help those few thousands to realize the real identity of these terrorists and Mobs.

Well what do u say Bro

I would hope that they could establish in the Iraqi peoples minds the true nature of these people, and I think many already know it, the problem is that if you dont agree with these "mobs" they will kill you, it is almost like a kill or be killed mentality, sad really. This is why the Iraqi people need to unite and state that they have had enough of this sectarian violence, they are the only ones who can stop it, however I think that these mobs and terrorist organizations have instilled the same fear that Saddam did and the people have simply become submissive over the years to this sort of oppression.

I really think all we can really do is hope and pray for peace in that land

 

[shible]

reply

In deed there are many other Mob and terrorist groups available around the world from different casts and nations and religions and many

Why was Islam and Muslim men taken as a Bait.

Don't you really feel that the media and the government officials are Exagerating the details and informations.

Due to which a Muslim Bro with his head covering (kufi, like a cap or turban) is identified as a Terrorist.

And a muslim women who wear Hijab (covering whole body) are seen with a disgusting look on most of those Western countries.

Why isn't a Sister who works for a hospital not seen in that way. Don't you feel kind of hatred going even on innocent peoples.

why was this happening only to muslims?