Afghan war may be lost: experts

[snakelegs]

You have to keep in mind that someone poked their nose pretty far in our business on 9-11. The owner of that nose was in Afghanistan.

of course, that is a good point. has it really achieved anything? has anything we have done since 9/11 achieved anything - made us safer?

btw, i hope mahdi soldier comes back - he would know more about afghanistan than i do.

 

[Keltoi]

I thought USA was Bin Laden's ally. Oh wait, they betrayed him like they betrayed Saddam Hussein. :rollseyes

Yeah....sure.

 

[Keltoi]

of course, that is a good point. has it really achieved anything? has anything we have done since 9/11 achieved anything - made us safer?

btw, i hope mahdi soldier comes back - he would know more about afghanistan than i do.

I would say keeping Al-Qaeda on the run and stopping them from using Afghanistan as a safe-haven was a necessary element to our national security.

 

[snakelegs]

are al-qaeda gone from afghanistan? are the taliban? i think a lot of al-qaeda have gone to iraq to fight, but that's a separate issue.

 

[Keltoi]

are al-qaeda gone from afghanistan? are the taliban? i think a lot of al-qaeda have gone to iraq to fight, but that's a separate issue.

Are those elements completely gone from Afghanistan? No, but their organization has been crippled. Don't confuse the issue of warlords and the natural state of Afghanistan automatically with the Taliban.

 

[snakelegs]

Are those elements completely gone from Afghanistan? No, but their organization has been crippled. Don't confuse the issue of warlords and the natural state of Afghanistan automatically with the Taliban.

i don't think i am confusing the 2 things.
whatever we may have achieved in afghanistan, we undid when we invaded iraq.

 

[Keltoi]

i don't think i am confusing the 2 things.
whatever we may have achieved in afghanistan, we undid when we invaded iraq.

How do you figure that? The goal in Afghanistan was to destroy Al-Qaeda's safe haven and their protectors the Taliban. That was in a large part accomplished, although it is still a work in progress. Iraq is a totally different issue, although connected in that terrorist groups with the same ideology as Al-Qaeda have flocked there to die for Allah.

 

[snakelegs]

How do you figure that? The goal in Afghanistan was to destroy Al-Qaeda's safe haven and their protectors the Taliban. That was in a large part accomplished, although it is still a work in progress. Iraq is a totally different issue, although connected in that terrorist groups with the same ideology as Al-Qaeda have flocked there to die for Allah.

first, i don't think we ever ran them completely out of afghanistan.
is think it's connected because some of the reason may be that they are less because many have gone to iraq.
second - our invasion of iraq upped their recruitment.
as for the taliban, they are alive and well and getting stronger.

 

[Keltoi]

first, i don't think we ever ran them completely out of afghanistan.
is think it's connected because some of the reason may be that they are less because many have gone to iraq.
second - our invasion of iraq upped their recruitment.
as for the taliban, they are alive and well and getting stronger.

We've been hearing this same line for years now. "The Taliban are getting stronger...watch out for the spring offensive". The only safe place for the Taliban are the mountains in and bordering Afghanistan. Yes, sometimes they emerge and behead a teacher or blow up some people with a car bomb, but the main problem for Afghanistan is the warlord phenomena and the economic dependence on poppy.

 

[snakelegs]

i agree about the poppy being the main problem of afghanistan.
the rest we will just have to disagree on. even karzai is freaking out at their growing threat. they are also growing and spreading in pakistan and the border is porous. (tho mush. is going to build a wall).

 

[Keltoi]

i agree about the poppy being the main problem of afghanistan.
the rest we will just have to disagree on. even karzai is freaking out at their growing threat. they are also growing and spreading in pakistan and the border is porous. (tho mush. is going to build a wall).

Time will tell the truth of it. When the Taliban emerge and send the U.S., Canada, Australia, the Afghan Army, the Northern Alliance, NATO, and the U.N. out of Afghanistan I will send you a box of chocolates...

 

[mahdisoldier19]

We've been hearing this same line for years now. "The Taliban are getting stronger...watch out for the spring offensive". The only safe place for the Taliban are the mountains in and bordering Afghanistan. Yes, sometimes they emerge and behead a teacher or blow up some people with a car bomb, but the main problem for Afghanistan is the warlord phenomena and the economic dependence on poppy.

Have you ever been to Afghanistan before the taliban, during the taliban, after the taliban before you start speaking as if you know Afghanistan like the back of your hand?

 

[Keltoi]

Have you ever been to Afghanistan before the taliban, during the taliban, after the taliban before you start speaking as if you know Afghanistan like the back of your hand?

I've never been to Antarctica either, but I know there is alot of ice and snow, with penguins and killer whales.

 

[mahdisoldier19]

I've never been to Antarctica either, but I know there is alot of ice and snow, with penguins and killer whales.

Nice, so do not speak on issues that you do not have full knowledge about.

 

[wilberhum]

Have you ever been to Afghanistan before the taliban, during the taliban, after the taliban before you start speaking as if you know Afghanistan like the back of your hand?

I always like the concept that if you don't have first hand knowledge, you have no knowledge.
Keltoi summed it up quite well.
What is your attitude about history? Since you weren't there when events took place, does that mean they never took place?
I bet you would have a hard time finding 5 non-Muslims that thought the Taliban were a bunch of really good men. But of course that doesn't count because they were never under there rule. And of course the Afghans that speak out against them are evil apostates.

 

[mahdisoldier19]

I always like the concept that if you don't have first hand knowledge, you have no knowledge.
Keltoi summed it up quite well.
What is your attitude about history? Since you weren't there when events took place, does that mean they never took place?
I bet you would have a hard time finding 5 non-Muslims that thought the Taliban were a bunch of really good men. But of course that doesn't count because they were never under there rule. And of course the Afghans that speak out against them are evil apostates.

Peace upon you

I was there when the events took place, Your Point?

I have actually found a hard time finding 500 non-muslims, i got 5 in less than 1 day.

Name me one group of people that speak against the law of Allah swt as Mumeen?

 

[Trumble]

Nice, so do not speak on issues that you do not have full knowledge about.

If everybody followed that instruction (which, of course, is ignored by everyone, including yourself) you could the number posts in this forum on one hand. .

Nobody has "full knowledge" about anything.

I doubt very much you would find any muslim who would "speak against the law of Allah"; that is a mutual contradiction. What you would find are those who do not accept that the Taliban represent the law of Allah, or indeed anything more than themselves. The majority of Afghans do not not want the extreme fundamentalism that the Taliban represent; that doesn't mean they are not muslims or are apostates. Don't confuse a natural desire for the end of conflict and for a peaceful existence with a desire for a return to the Taliban to power.

How many women did you speak to while you were there, by the way? Particularly those trained in a profession, such as teachers or doctors? I would be curious to hear of their enthusiam for the Taliban.

 

[north_malaysian]

Osama Bin Laden is a genius. The most brilliant man of this century.

If Osama bin Ladin is the most brilliant man in this century..... How about Mr Gorge W. Bush? kay:

 

[MTAFFI]

The main thing that should be known here is that the Taliban will never again be a ruling government at the rate that they are going right now. They will kill innocent people to make the point that they are still out there, they will cause disruption in society, they will hate the US and all that dont agree with their line of thought, but they will never again be a political figure controling a country.

That being said the Afghan war isnt actually lost, the goal has been accomplished for a long time now, the new objective is to rid the world of them (an interest to the US), however this is not the Afghan war because the US isnt at war with Afghanistan. There will always be people who claim victory (especially in this region) when there is no clear winner, it is a psychological game that is played by them. The thing is their thinking is so far behind the rest of the world only the reporters who need a story are listening. How has the West lost this war in Afghan? Have they killed all of the soldiers? Have they taken the government back and established their hard line rule over the land again? Have they accomplished anything really except blowing up or shooting citizens of a country they claim to love? I dont think so, so how have they won? What objective have they accomplished? Disrupting the peace, by the same token a war can be won by simply claiming simple objectives, maybe the objective is to kill 1 person a day, just because they do that does that mean they won? Look at their state of being, they hide in the hills, come out and kill themselves and as many others as possible, that to me is not winning. Losing power over my country is not winning. Killing civilians in my country is not winning. The taliban has lost they just to dumb and proud to admit it. The same could be said of the insurgents in Iraq, what have they actually accomplished that they can take with them. The US's war in Iraq is over, we are not at war with Iraq we are trying to create stability, yes they are doing a good job of making sure there isnt stability, but what is actually being accomplished? Do you think any of these groups will one day rule Iraq? I seriously doubt it, they will be around, they will cause trouble but their cause is lost, because they have alienated themselves and shown that their interest is not in the Iraqis, there interest is only for themselves, if they do somehow rise to power, even if the US pulls out, the US will come back and remove them.

 

[mahdisoldier19]

If everybody followed that instruction (which, of course, is ignored by everyone, including yourself) you could the number posts in this forum on one hand. .

Nobody has "full knowledge" about anything.

I doubt very much you would find any muslim who would "speak against the law of Allah"; that is a mutual contradiction. What you would find are those who do not accept that the Taliban represent the law of Allah, or indeed anything more than themselves. The majority of Afghans do not not want the extreme fundamentalism that the Taliban represent; that doesn't mean they are not muslims or are apostates. Don't confuse a natural desire for the end of conflict and for a peaceful existence with a desire for a return to the Taliban to power.

How many women did you speak to while you were there, by the way? Particularly those trained in a profession, such as teachers or doctors? I would be curious to hear of their enthusiam for the Taliban.

What do you know about Afghanistan. I have lived there with professional women who were doctors working in medical facilities, teachers who were female. Who are you to point at accusations. You claim the majority of afghans do not want the extreme fundamentalism that the Taliban represent. Prove your statement, you do not even know what the Taliban represent. You do not even know Afghanistan before the Taliban had controlled.

The afghan people are sick and tired of 2000 ib bombs being dropped on them in the name of democracy, thats not how you win the hearts of people. The US had 5 years to help all of Afghanistan, but failed. Now the taliban have arrived to take back whats theirs.