Moderate Muslims

[Keltoi]

Yeah ^ however, any muslim leader who called against it clearly using the Qur'an and Authentic Sunnah would be sufficient. The problem is that they usually don't get the coverage.

Of course non-Muslims would have no idea who that particular individual is or his standing within Islam as a whole. Non-Muslims, who are usually Christian or atheist in the West, are used to thinking about religious edicts as coming from the head of the Church, the Pope. The local cleric down the street probably isn't going to be enough for alot of people, simply because they don't understand that Islam doesn't have a "pope" to make grand declarations.

 

[lilah]

Salaam,

Moderate muslim are the best of muslim,for theya re loved by the west

Moderate muslim support gay and leasbian and wishes for gay and lesbian to be imams.
Moderate muslim support the murder of muslim for oil/
Moderate muslima are those who say theya re muslim but campining for the destruction of the Quran.
Moderate muslim are those who speak of ill of fundamental muslim who follow the quran and sunnah.
Moderate muslim are those who attack tehir brothers and sister fro follwoin
g the quran and Sunnah.

They are the best "muslim" and lvoed by the west.

you just don't get it, :laugh:

this post is pure absurdity

 

[- Qatada -]

Of course non-Muslims would have no idea who that particular individual is or his standing within Islam as a whole. Non-Muslims, who are usually Christian or atheist in the West, are used to thinking about religious edicts as coming from the head of the Church, the Pope. The local cleric down the street probably isn't going to be enough for alot of people, simply because they don't understand that Islam doesn't have a "pope" to make grand declarations.

I understand, however the problem isn't that in of itself. Rather, its the fact that i myself have never seen a program which allows muslims to express their true views or correct teachings of Islaam to the mass public.

Then with the media naming everything evil 'Islamic' - that's when the problems come up, because the ignorant fall prey to the media without seeing the true Islamic side to it. And then looking down upon muslims because of the clever tactics the media used.

 

[Keltoi]

I understand, however the problem isn't that in of itself. Rather, its the fact that i myself have never seen a program which allows muslims to express their true views or correct teachings of Islaam to the mass public.

Then with the media naming everything evil 'Islamic' - that's when the problems come up, because the ignorant fall prey to the media without seeing the true Islamic side to it. And then looking down upon muslims because of the clever tactics the media used.

Are you from the U.S. or the U.K.? I've seen quite a few interviews with Muslims on American television. I actually agree though, because most of these interviews, if not all, are happening in the context of terrorism. So regardless of what the Muslim says, the conversation is still in the context of terrorism. Which isn't helpful.

On a positive note, coming from the "evil" Fox News channel, one of their business shows had a Muslim businessman on who bought stock in companies that were acceptable, in the religious sense, for Muslims to get involved in. The word terrorism was never mentioned once. That is a good start in my opinion. Have Muslims on T.V. who aren't talking about terrorism.

 

[- Qatada -]

Are you from the U.S. or the U.K.? I've seen quite a few interviews with Muslims on American television. I actually agree though, because most of these interviews, if not all, are happening in the context of terrorism. So regardless of what the Muslim says, the conversation is still in the context of terrorism. Which isn't helpful.

On a positive note, coming from the "evil" Fox News channel, one of their business shows had a Muslim businessman on who bought stock in companies that were acceptable, in the religious sense, for Muslims to get involved in. The word terrorism was never mentioned once. That is a good start in my opinion. Have Muslims on T.V. who aren't talking about terrorism.

U.K that's a clever idea, i'm also glad - and the praise is for Allaah - that muslims are opening up their own channels to convey to the people the true message of Islaam. Because obviously we can't keep whining if we don't do nothing ourselves.

However, i'd like it if muslims were given even a little bit of coverage to express the truth and just the basics to clear up many misunderstandings people may have, maybe at a time when many people would watch - maybe to balance out (in a minor way) the truth from the evil which is usually always spread about Islaam being evil etc.


There are documentaries i have seen on the Islamic channel which are quite fascinating, make the message quite clear and clear up misconceptions, so there isn't a problem with their being a lack of muslim directors, but i'm not really sure why they don't allow it. There have been some programmes about the wars which go on in Iraq etc. but again - like you stated, it's just expressing the evil which no side really enjoys except the party who wants to make Islaam look evil.


We'll just have to work hard to inform people of the true teachings of Islaam, and how it's a religion of justice, morality, kindness etc.



Anyway thanks for your time, i'm going for abit.



Peace.

 

[north_malaysian]

Salaam,

Moderate muslim are the best of muslim,for theya re loved by the west

Moderate muslim support gay and leasbian and wishes for gay and lesbian to be imams.
Moderate muslim support the murder of muslim for oil/
Moderate muslima are those who say theya re muslim but campining for the destruction of the Quran.
Moderate muslim are those who speak of ill of fundamental muslim who follow the quran and sunnah.
Moderate muslim are those who attack tehir brothers and sister fro follwoing the quran and Sunnah.

They are the best "muslim" and lvoed by the west.

Those are not Moderate Muslims... those are Liberal Muslims...

 

[barney]

The term fundamentalist is misguided.
Some Fundamentals of islam are There is no compulsion in religion.
Another is Fight / slay the unbeleivers whereever you find them.

Now the "Moderate" muslim will look to the "peaceful" surahs, and say they abrogate the Sword Surahs. The "Extremists" vice versa.

The majority of muslims, who would argue for respect tolerance and fine modern day virtues, interpret the Quran and Hadiths or use interpretations of the meanings of them, in this light.

Myself, i think thats a strech. The very rocks are going to ask muslims to kill jews. The "best" interpretations of this are "just the jews who are unjust" or those jews who are "treacherous" or some such other proviso.
I've seen all of those arguements, and I'm (sort-of) glad that the scripts are toned down a little. Mostly I'm glad that they are skipped over in favor of more freindly verses by the greater proportion of western muslims.

Problem is, theres plenty of "extremists" who just quote the Quran as it is literally read. With no gloss-over, no footnotes, no debating of the meanings. just the letters as they appear, to punish, fight, chastise, loot, enslave.

I dont really need to produce a thousand links to the fanatics using these verses. We have all seen them.
I think "Literalist" is a far better term for them.

Now in the west we can and do cry long and hard about "fringe elements", "corruption of the messages" and suchlike.

If it's down to listening to Tony Blair telling me Islam is peace or a "Literalist" waving a koran about and screaming verses straight from the pages, who do i beleive?

I can look at Arab and Muslim nations 100,000 thronging the streets foaming "Death to USA..Death to Israel"

If a single Brit went into the middle of Southampton and held up a little peice of paper saying "Death to Oman", they would face race-hate charges.
And rightly so.

It's time to stop blaming "the west" (oooh..we are so evil, deposing mass muslim-killers like Hussain and Milosovic) and start looking at where the hate really is.

The west can never rid Islam of the literalists, neither should we try. Thats YOUR job.

 

[barney]

Just to qualify the above.

If i come to load islam, i will get a in-depth and somewhat convoluted reply to how a "Sword" Surah is mean to be taken.

If I watch a Video from Jihadunspun, I'll get a Terrorist with a RPG in his fist and a Koran in the other, just quoting the verse directly.

 

[beespreeteam]

Just to qualify the above.

If i come to load islam, i will get a in-depth and somewhat convoluted reply to how a "Sword" Surah is mean to be taken.

If I watch a Video from Jihadunspun, I'll get a Terrorist with a RPG in his fist and a Koran in the other, just quoting the verse directly.

The Quran tells people numerous times to ponder and reflect upon it's content. That's why there's thousands of people who have spent their entire lives studying and writing books on the Quran.

Sure, there's definitely literal parts, but things many, many things behind an ayah or revelation that you can't just ignore.

This applies to many things in life, actually - but I guess life's your cafeteria eh

 

[beespreeteam]

It's time to stop blaming "the west" (oooh..we are so evil, deposing mass muslim-killers like Hussain and Milosovic) and start looking at where the hate really is.

The west can never rid Islam of the literalists, neither should we try. Thats YOUR job.

http://beespree.com/story.php?title=A_History_of_Folly_-_Why_Islamic_Countries_hate_America

site's a bit funny, it's being updated but the link should still be there.

Have a read, lemme know your thoughts

Peace

 

[guyabano]

Have a read, lemme know your thoug...male babies was 'Adolf' Get the similarity?

 

[Muezzin]

It's time to stop blaming "the west" (oooh..we are so evil, deposing mass muslim-killers like Hussain and Milosovic) and start looking at where the hate really is.

The west can never rid Islam of the literalists, neither should we try. Thats YOUR job.

Yes, I know. I agree. Calm down. Also, please stop treating all Muslims as if they are apologetics. We are trying our best to stop people abusing our religion.

 

[thirdwatch512]

i am glad to see some people condemning terrorism here!!

over the past week as i have been browsing this forum, i have seen some radical, and pretty hateful threads.they really shocked me and scared me in a way. like there was a post about a mosque explosion in india, and someone said "we will take the hindu women in pakistan.. they will get payback" and i was like oh my gosh! how horrible!

and then in the arabic thread there was one REALLY terrible thread.. mocking dead US troops. saying that the troops deserve what they are getting.

i know that doesn't represent all of islam. but it certainly isscary that there are muslim members on here who support terrorism. and i'm glad to see threads like these being started!

 

[islamirama]

i am glad to see some people condemning terrorism here!!

over the past week as i have been browsing this forum, i have seen some radical, and pretty hateful threads.they really shocked me and scared me in a way. like there was a post about a mosque explosion in india, and someone said "we will take the hindu women in pakistan.. they will get payback" and i was like oh my gosh! how horrible!

and then in the arabic thread there was one REALLY terrible thread.. mocking dead US troops. saying that the troops deserve what they are getting.

i know that doesn't represent all of islam. but it certainly isscary that there are muslim members on here who support terrorism. and i'm glad to see threads like these being started!

Those how bombed the mosque in india need to be captured and brought to justice. Those who say we go take hindu wome in pakistan and harass them are wrong, you don't go aroung harassing innocents who didn't have anything to do with it. That's something the non-muslims have been doing, harassing every muslim and treating every muslim as a terrorists or suspect.

As for the troops in Iraq, not only that is free speech Snip Why? becuase they are the enemies, they are occupying a muslim land and they have been massacring innocents there. No one wants them there, they were sent there on faulty intelligence and this war is illegal by international law. And even my religion gives me the right to hate and pray against those that are the enemies and islam make it incumbant upon us to do jihad and fight against those who invadee our lands, violate our proptery, our honor and oppress us. That is not terrorism, any resistance against occupations seems to be called terrorism by the westerners these days. I"m sure you would pray the same thing if your country was under occupation.

Bush wants us to become "moderate muslims", anyone who is not is a "suspect", a possible "terrorists" and is "against us" as he puts it...



“What's a 'moderate Muslim'?
Someone that doesn't mind the invasion and occupation of Muslim countries and the slaughter of countless people there? We will see the end of 'extremist' Muslims when we see the end of 'extremist' leaders in the West. It's not rocket science although it is in a lot of people's interests to pretend that it is.”
- Marie Xeno

No calls to violence please, as per the rules for posting in the World Affairs section - Muezzin

 

[Idris]

As for the troops in Iraq, not only that is free speech but also correct to say. I say it and do pray they all come back in bodybags or don't come back at all. Why? becuase they are the enemies, they are occupying a muslim land and they have been massacring innocents there. No one wants them there, they were sent there on faulty intelligence and this war is illegal by international law. And even my religion gives me the right to hate and pray against those that are the enemies and islam make it incumbant upon us to do jihad and fight against those who invadee our lands, violate our proptery, our honor and oppress us. That is not terrorism, any resistance against occupations seems to be called terrorism by the westerners these days. I"m sure you would pray the same thing if your country was under occupation.

I pray for that too.

In the aftermath of September 11, much has been said about the need for "moderate Muslims." But to be a "moderate" Muslim also implies that Osama bin Laden and Co. must represent the pinnacle of orthodoxy; that a criterion of orthodox Islam somehow inherently entails violence; and, consequently, that if I espouse peace, I am not adhering to my full religious duties.

I refuse to live as a "moderate" Muslim if its side effect is an unintentional admission that suicide bombing is a religious obligation for the orthodox faithful. True orthodoxy is simply the attempt to adhere piously to a religion's tenets.

 

[August]

how many times do we have to tell the world how terrorism and extremism is wrong and anti islamic before the world hears us? when 9-11 happened, did the media first go to the masajids and talk to the imams? no, the first thing the media did was show people jumping up and down w/joy in Palestine. Since 9-11 the masajids have bent over backwards trying to clear the confusion over islam.

But i guess if people cover their ears, they can't hear much...:laugh: :laugh:

No, the point isn't that people aren't listening. I have been listening to non-terrorist Muslims make the case for Islam as a religion of peace, on points the terrorists are winning the argument. When the average everyday muslims in the street in Palestine are jumping for joy over 9-11, it only strengthens the terrorists argument. Now, I want to reinforce that I don't believe that Islam is a violent religion. I think however, that if things continue to go the way that they're going then the west, or at least the U.S. will become convinced that Islam is violent, and then we will see a much larger war.

 

[August]

As for the troops in Iraq, Snip Why? becuase they are the enemies, they are occupying a muslim land and they have been massacring innocents there.

That's a frightening statement. You listed your location as U.S.A., are you a citizen? If so, then you are condoning the killing of your countrymen, which is treason as far as I'm concerned. Why wish for them to be in bodybags at all? Wouldn't it be more in line with Islam to wish they would change their ways? I am also disturbed by your idea that occupying a Muslim land makes them the enemies of all Muslims. Couldn't a Muslim country be ruled by a madman, such as Saddam, and need to be occupied for the good of everyone else?

 

[islamirama]

That's a frightening statement. You listed your location as U.S.A., are you a citizen? If so, then you are condoning the killing of your countrymen, which is treason as far as I'm concerned. Why wish for them to be in bodybags at all? Wouldn't it be more in line with Islam to wish they would change their ways? I am also disturbed by your idea that occupying a Muslim land makes them the enemies of all Muslims. Couldn't a Muslim country be ruled by a madman, such as Saddam, and need to be occupied for the good of everyone else?

I don't believe in nationalism, that is another religion others can worship all they want. My countrymen are Muslims, regardless of what nationality or race they are. Their blood and my blood is one, their suffering and mine is one, we are one ummah (nation) pass territorial boundaries. Call it treason or call it what you want, i'm entitled to my believes and praying against the destruction of your enemies is far from anything that qualifies by law as treason.

Muslim country cannot be ruled by any other than a Muslim. US invaded that land, has massacred thousands (haditha and fullajah two cities for examle), they kill innocents indiscrimanetly, raped and continue to rape iraqi women they have imprisoned, lets not forget abu gharib and so many like that that have not been caught yet. It is an occupation of Muslim land and an oppression of Muslims. By Islam and by Allah's command, jihaad is a must in such a case. Allah commands us to fight those who oppress you, violate your land, your honor, your lives, to expel them from your land. Regardless of what Bush says, this is a war on Islam and that is what 25 Muslims countries believe according to most recent polls.

As for Saddam, yes he was bad man and so are many other dictators in Muslim lands. But he is still Muslim ruling over Muslims. Islam says we should try to advise such a person and be patient and pray so long as he establish salaah, and if he doesn't then we can go against him and over throw him. Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one." He might've been a bad not not worst then other Muslim leaders we have. Do you remember Shah? the puppet US put in power in iran, he was very oppressive and put his people thru hell. The islamic revolution of 1979 was a reaction to his oppression. So So don't think people won't stand up when they can't take it anymore.

So whether you're disturbed or not, the fact remains. Those that invade and occupy Muslim lands and fight Muslims (war on islam) are clear enemies of Islam.

Allah declares in the Qur'an:​

• "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory - (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right - (for no cause) except that they say, 'Our Lord is Allah'.... " 22:39-40​

The Qur'an permits fighting to defend the religion of Islam and the Muslims. This permission includes fighting in self defense and for the protection of family and property. The early Muslims fought many battles against their enemies under the leadership of the Prophet Muhammad(S) or his representatives. For example, when the pagans of Quraysh brought armies against Prophet Muhammad(S), the Muslims fought to defend their faith and community. The Qur'an adds:​

• "Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ... And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." 2:190,193​

Besides, who is US to go across the world to overthrow someone like that? US has nukes and has used them as well, how the hell does it get the right to tell others they can't have nukes? And lets not forget this whole war was waged on faulty intelligent and lots of lies.

 

[vpb]

Yvone riddley said once "Have you ever heard a woman being moderately pregenant? she either is pregnant or not. Same is with a muslim, you either are a muslims or you're not".

and I think her statement makes sense a lot.

 

[August]

Muslim country cannot be ruled by any other than a Muslim.

Many Muslim countries have shown an inability to rule themselves. The truth is, the U.S. must look after it's national interests. If a Muslim country such as Iraq or Afganistan is a threat to U.S. national security, then it is morally right to invade and occupy that country. If muslim nations are unable to live at peace with the rest of the world, then they cannot be allowed to rule themselves. I apply the same thing to any country, not just muslim ones.

As for what gives the U.S. the right. Two things. First, every country has a right to defend itself and it's legitimate national interests. Secondly, as the most powerful country in the world, the U.S. has a responsibility to try to create a better world.