Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Trumble, i see your saying there are texts which are equally unaltered.

and i indeed do claim the meaning is unaltered and anyone who tries to alter them will be rejected by the majority.

if i do travel back in time the "level of understanding" will of course be faaar different due to the huge difference in intellect between the people of today and back then but the essence or "gist" of the meaning will not change... i hope you know what im trying to say.

 

[Joe98]

3-what kind of evidence or proof that atheist looking for or what kind of evidence or proof they can truly accept?

An occasional visit. At this point Klingons will visit the earth before any god does!

According to religious people, the earth is about 10,000 years old.

And, according to religious people, 10,000 years is like the blink of an eye to god.

And therefore, it goes, that 1,400 years after the muslim prophet Mohammad, 1,400 years is nothing to god and that’s why we havn’t heard from him.

If 10,000 years is the blink of an eye to god, how long is 10 minutes?

God could visit one a year for 10 mins and give his annual speech on the state of the earth. 10 mins is nothing to god.

But he has not. That’s because he doesn’t exist.



-

 

[Joe98]

if ur a athiest then why are u on this forum? if u do not believe in god?

this means u are insecure with ur belief that god doesnt exist and you just wanna keep argueing to keep urself happy.

It was a muslim who started the thread and asked Athiests to respond.

There is no god. There has never been any gods. It is an invention of man who can't understand something.

-

 

[MuhammadRizan]

Salam.

Hello.

To your first question (from the previous post) I think the definition of atheist is not believing in god/gods, which is what I believe.

As for question 3, I don't think and proof would be forthcoming, but I'd like a god concept that seems to fit what I see in the world around me. That would be a good start. As to proof, something miraculous would make me tip towards believing that there is a god out there.

Thanks.

okay i think i got it..

for my first question.

Hmm...people will say i'm crazy if i just make a claim my watch is just exist..i dont buy it..no body make it..it's just exist..

how on earth people do not say i'm crazy if this universe if just exist..it don't start..it's just exist.?

for my second question.
i think this is valid one..because we're human..at least we're most superior creature on earth and it will be absurd for us if we worship something lower than ourself like stone,statue,picture,animal,tree or anything.

then question is who is the God?

and my third question.

Miracle...well Quran is miracle..there is verse confirming science today..since Quran revealed 1400 years ago..it's impossible that Quran is manmade..unless somebody can prove Prophet Muhammad did take a science class.

example from Harun Yahya site.

THE STAR SIRIUS

When certain concepts mentioned in the Qur'an are studied in the light of 21st century scientific discoveries we find ourselves imparted with yet more miracles of the Qur'an. One of these is the star Sirius, mentioned in Surat an-Najm 49:

... it is He Who is the Lord of Sirius. (Qur'an, 53: 49)

The fact that the Arabic word "shi'raa," the equivalent of the star Sirius, appears only in Surat an-Najm, meaning only "star," 49 is particularly striking. Because, considering the irregularity in the movement of Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, as their starting point, scientists discovered that it was actually a double star. Sirius is actually a set of two stars, known as Sirius A and Sirius B. The larger of these is Sirius A, which is also the closer to the Earth and the brightest star that can be seen with the naked eye. Sirius B, however, cannot be seen without a telescope.

The Sirius double stars orbit in ellipses about one another. The orbital period of Sirius A & B about their common centre of gravity is 49.9 years. This scientific data is today accepted with one accord by the departments of astronomy at Harvard, Ottawa and Leicester Universities.2 This information is reported as follows in various sources:

Sirius, the brightest star, is actually a twin star... Its orbit lasts 49.9 years.3

As is known, the stars Sirius-A and Sirius-B orbit each other in a double bow every 49.9 years.4

The point requiring attention here is the double, bow-shaped orbit of the two stars around one another.

However, this scientific fact, the accuracy of which was only realised in the late 20th century, was miraculously indicated in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago. When verses 49 and 9 of Surat an-Najm are read together, this miracle becomes apparent:

It is He Who is the Lord of Sirius. (Qur'an, 53: 49)

He was two bow-lengths away or even closer. (Qur'an, 53:9)

The description in Surat an-Najm 9 may also describe how these two stars approach one another in their orbits. (Allah knows best.) This scientific fact, that nobody could have known at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an, once again proves that the Qur'an is the word of Almighty Allah.

how are we going to refute this?

and this?

Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran makes very important scientific claims:

"He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!" (The Noble Quran, 11:7)"

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)"

"It is He Who has created man from water: then has He established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things). (The Noble Quran, 25:54)"

"And God has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. God creates what He wills for verily God has power over all things. (The Noble Quran, 24:45)"

"Protoplasm is the basis of all living matter, and 'the vital power of protoplasm seems to depend on the constant presence of water' (Lowsons' Text-book of Botany, Indian Edition. London 1922, p. 23). Text books of Zoology are also clear on the point. For example, see T.J. Parker and W.A. Haswell, Textbook of Zoology, London, 1910, Vol I. p. 15: 'Living protoplasm always contains a large amount of water.' " [2]

"About 72 percent of the surface of our Globe is still covered with water, and it has been estimated that if the inequalities of the surface were all leveled, the whole surface would be under water, as the mean elevation of land sphere-level would be 7,000-10,000 feet below the surface of the ocean (cf. 11:7). This shows the predominance of water on our Globe. That all life began in the water is also a conclusion to which our latest knowledge in biological science points. Apart from the fact that protoplasm, the original basis of living matter, is liquid or semi-liquid and in a state of constant flux and instability, there is the fact that land animals, like the higher vertebrates, including man, show, in their embryological history, organs like those of fishes, indicating the watery origin of their original habitat. The constitution of protoplasm is about 80 to 85 percent water (see also 24:30-31 and 24:45)." [3]

 

[Pygoscelis]

I must point out that if atheists here were writing with the same venom as some of the muslims in this thread have, I bet we'd be banned from the forum. Am I allowed to declare that muslims are stupid, childish, and in denial? No, I didn't think so. Yet look at the last few pages from our new muslim posters.

We seem to be getting the same questions re atheism over and over, so I will give you the 1 minute primer:

1. Athiesm is nothing but a lack of belief in God(s). Thats it. There is no dogma or system of belief in atheism at all. You were born an atheist yourself, before your parents taught you about your current belief. You are still atheist in regard to all gods but one. How you view Zeus is how atheists view Jehovah and Allah.

2. Pascal's Wager: "It is Safer to believe in God than not, So you should believe in God." This always comes up in these threads. It is fundamentally flawed in a number of ways. First, it is a false dichotomy, you assume only one possible God when there are infiinte possible Gods. Two, you assume one can choose to believe. Can you choose to believe that you are a cow? No. Because you know you're not.Three, Many religous books speak more harshly about worship of false gods than worship of no god, so one could argue that picking no god is safer than chancing picking the wrong god.

3. The Watchmaker Argument: The watch is complex, it could not just come to be on its own. Surely it had a creator. Humans and the universe are even MORE complex, so they must even more so need a creator! But wait --- God is infinitely yet MORE complex... so who created God? What? God has always existed or came to be on his own? Why not the universe then?

4. Atheists are not "in denial" or "rebelling against God". We honestly don't belive the fellow exists.

5. You do not need a God to have a moral sense. That comes from empathy and self interest and social contract. In fact, what you claim is morality from religion is really not morality at all, but just bare obedience to he with the greatest power.

6. Atheists who come here and to other online religious forums are not all unsteady about their athiesm or searching for faith. Most often they are simply curious, especially on a forum of a religion not so well known to them but in the news (such as Islam to most westerners). Often on such forums atheism is attacked, and it should be no surpise that the atheists there speak up. That is human nature.

Hopefully that quick 1 minute primer will head a few questions in this thread about atheism off at the pass.

 

[جوري]

To the original poster... I find absolutely no benefits trying to prove G-D to an atheist. Atheists make up 10% of the United States population, and I don't imagine it any different from any other part of the world... sort of like having a personality disorder which affects 10-15% of the adult US population-- as well as any other part of the world.. 10-15% in Saskatchewan and 10-15% on the canary Island will suffer some form of personality disorder... with all the progress of modern medicine Medications are in no way curative FOR ANY personality disorder.... like wise no amount of literature will get these folk to think differently. We'll all be engaging in idle discourse back and forth... I say live and let live, we don't gain or lose anything by their belief or lack thereof.. it is all so very inconsequential ... that is my two cents on this subject!..

 

[Balthasar21]

this is a classic misconception lol, there are translations of the quran for those who dont understand arabic, but there are no different altered versions of the quran. for example you will not find chapters thrown out and verses fabricated in...

lolololol next your going to tell me Muslims have the original copy of the Qur'aan !

 

[ranma1/2]

an atheist is someone who knows tht GOD exists but tries everyday of his life to deny this fact. he brainwashes himself to think he believes tht there is no GOD. so proving the existence of ALLAH[swt] to such person might be a waste of precious time because the atheist is aware of this but chose to live in denial!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep your right, we know the GFSM exists. So do you. You just deny it. Shame one you.

 

[ranma1/2]

u might not believe in the creator as GOD or ALLAH[swt], but it will be foolish of someone not to believe there is a higher force tht caused existence to be. u might not believe in the concept in of which religions potray the supreme but u cant deny the fact tht there is an ultimate force in control of existence. u dint create urself neither did any man create the earth, so how do uy explain the coming to being of the world?

wait i thought you just said we know a god exists... Now i think its foolish to believe what you believe without actual evidence.
If you are curious how evo works i recommend reading about it. If you are curious about how the big bang begane i suggest you reading about it.

And God did it is meaningless.

 

[ranma1/2]

i did not make that statement arrogant to the fact that the aethiests will completely deny it if not ridicule it.

But when a book comes to the most perfect human in the most eloquent style answering each and every problem of life and is still rejected then i honestly find a problem with the person.

Also i've grown a strong dislike for mathematics and science to always be shown to prove the validity of the quran, if anything this weakens my imaan! im not even kidding, anything Allah has revealed is far superior to anything humans can ever discover.


it is a fact that no book has stood the test of time other then the Quran Majeed. Allahu Akbar

And abook have never come to a most perfect human.
If this perfect human you are speaking of was perfect then surly his morals would have been perfect. And thus marrying a 9 year old would have been immoral. but wait... thats another thread...

Oh yeah, if allas reveliations are so cool then i strongly suggest you get off that human revealed computer, and stop takeing those human made medicnes. and stop driving human made cars...etc...

 

[ranma1/2]

Salam.



actually i'm not referring you;-), the questions are general for any atheist here,

i ask because the topic is "Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist"....

and i wanna add.

3-what kind of evidence or proof that atheist looking for or what kind of evidence or proof they can truly accept?

For me i in general would like good old basic scientific evidence.
A holy book with out any contradictions would be a start.
Perhaps one that doesnt have to rely on an authority to tell you what the book says. A holy book that is perfectly translated without error from one language to another. etc...
I do not accept apeals to emotion or personal testimony. "after all there are many contradicting personal testimonies"

 

[ranma1/2]

Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist:
don't.
save your breath and use your energy for something more useful.
most atheists are just as firm and rooted in their non-belief as you are in yours and you will be wasting your time.
(p.s. i should add for those who don't know - i am not an atheist. i believe in god.)

oh i think they should try, but if all they have is personal testimony or apeal to emotion, or similar garabage then they should give up. The typical atheists likely wants actual evidence. And this of course is never given.

 

[snakelegs]

there can be no evidence for a belief because belief is not science, so it cannot be proven in the way scientic knowlege can.
belief is a whole different system and is beyond the realm of science.
just because something can not be proven does not mean that it does not exist. it just means that it is beyond the realm of science - it may or may not exist.
religious people say they have proof and then quote from their holy books in an excercise of circular logic for something that by its very nature cannot be proven.
atheists who demand proof are making the same mistake as the religious people who claim they have proof.
if you can only believe something that you have scientific evidence for, that's your choice. seems somewhat limiting to me, but that's ok.

 

[ranma1/2]

what do you athiests believe exactly?

It varies, i would recommend reading about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism


that we have just coincidentally been made along with the universe around us?
could you clarify? We are a product of evolution. We are not "special".
This is supported by scientific evidence. there is zero scientific evidence that supports creation.

The perfect flawless design of our bodies has just been made coincidentally?
This is 100% false, our bodies are horribly designed to what they could be if made by an intelligent designer. I myself have a defective heart "MVP" poor eyes, caviteis, fat among other things. However with evo we expect not perfect designs but good enough.


The sun is a perfect distance away from the earth, not to close that it would be too hot for the earth to support life and not to far that it would be too cold to support life COINCIDENTALLY??

And thus we find life where life can exists. Nothing special about it. Also there is a range we can exists in. The earth actually varies in distance fromt he sun through out the year. Also if you look at extreme climates you will see a lack of abundant life.

think?
All the time, i also question and I am a general skeptic. Can you say the same?

are you really that arrogant that you cannot see these blessings?
What blessings? Could you clarify by what you mean?
The blessing of being able to fly like a bird ? sorry cant do that.
The blessings of living for thousand of years? sorry not that either.
The blessings of war? I hope you dont think that is one.

 

[ranma1/2]

i never insulted u. all im saying is tht no man can sincerely believe tht a supreme force doesnt exist, u may not refer to the supreme as a biing or a spirit or whtever, but u cant deny the fact tht something beyond the human comprehension exists which propelled existence into being. ok, u chose not to believe in something which u cant see physicaly, wht about air? the fact tht u dont see air doesnt mean u dont believe in its existence,thts because u can feel air. so the fact tht u can feel anythig at all or u are alive should open ur eyes to the reality of the existence of the creator as something beyond ur comprehension which sustains human existence and life in general!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So can women?
Well how about I go. I sincerly believe that based on the evidence that there is no god or intellgent force or creator that made us.
Well I just showed you wrong... bu wha ha h aha ha ha ha... "hack...darn soda" ... ha ha ha ha hah haaaa....

 

[guyabano]

if he rlly doesnt believe, thts up 2 him. but its jst like someone saying he doesnt believe tht air exists, ill find it hard to believe hes serious, it jst sounds like denial to me thts all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You had no school yesterday? Why are you messing up here?

Read again the text of the topic. I just gave my opinion and putting religions in question doesn't mean, I believe in nothing or nobody.
As Wilberhum said already, you didn't maybe call me directly a liar, but your words clearly mean that. So, fact is, you insulted me.
And supposed, that Islam is religion of peace and muslims are normally peacefully and friendly, I can only have one conclusion:
You are not a real muslim and you only pretend to be one !

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lolololol next your going to tell me Muslims have the original copy of the Qur'aan !

hmm, you laughed but showed no proof that the Quran is unaltered... so you compeletely assumed it...

smart

 

[Malaikah]

If this perfect human you are speaking of was perfect then surly his morals would have been perfect. And thus marying a 9 year old would have been immoral. but wait... thats another thread...

Ah, yes, and I suppose using your own moral standards to judge others who live in a totally different culture, life style and time is completely moral too? :rollseyes

 

[ranma1/2]

Ah, yes, and I suppose using your own moral standards to judge others who live in a totally different culture, life style and time is completely moral too? :rollseyes

If he is being deemed perfect i find it reasonable to judge him.
However I dont judge our past ancestors on our morals from modern society because they were not "perfect". I expect a normal imperfect human to be a product of their times. But if you deem this person to be "perfect" then i expect them to be "perfect".

 

[جوري]

Edit: please refrain from personal attacks. They are not constructive, and not the purpose of this forum.